Ubuntu users are pathetic.

[Topher15]

No offence to all Ubuntu users, but some of them really need to get a life.

You may have recently heard about this commotion over the girl who order a PC from Dell.com (for some online college classes), and somehow selected an Ubuntu system rather than a Windows (not realising until it arrived).

Being a complete novice she could get her internet install CD to work with Ubuntu, nor could MS Word install (and again, as a novice she didn't realise what OpenOffice was, that it came with her system, or that it was compatible with Word).

So she rung up Dell support. Despite asking "what is Ubuntu" the guy in support convinced her to keep the Ubuntu laptop.

In the end she couldn't take her classes, so she contacted 24 News Troubleshooter (who are well know for resolving tech disputes) blaming Dell for this.

Ubuntu users started swarming to the story, acting as if this was a hate story against Ubuntu, sending hateful emails for the news outlet, and even harassing this girl in Facebook!

The original story is all quite silly really. She should have done more before turning to the news outlet. She should have contacted her internet company, and contacted the college about not having Word, there's no excuse for not doing that, but still, the fact she was a complete tech novice means it is understandable, and doesn't make her dumb.

The basic problem with this story is Ubuntu users couldn't realise that most people are not tech savvy, nor that for most people Ubuntu will be alien to them. Here a few good points made in a few articles on this story:

http://i.gizmodo.com/5132132/wiscon...ses-thanks-to-a-mind-blown-by-her-ubuntu-dell

As ridiculous as it may be, let this serve as a parable. Just because you and I know that setting up a DSL connection without the install CD is pretty easy, and that Open Office can save Word-compatible documents just fine, poor Annie—a perfect representation of a mainstream user if I ever saw one—got tripped up. Linux will never truly go seamlessly mainstream with problems like this persisting.

http://www.geek.com/articles/news/d...-leads-woman-to-drop-out-of-college-20090116/

The problem here is a lack of knowledge and some wayward advice from a Dell support person. If you were working on the Dell support line and had a woman phoning you confused as to what Ubuntu was would you recommend she continue to use it?

I think I would ask a few more questions and find out what her level of experience was. Not knowing what Ubuntu is puts it quite low to begin with, but you could ask her if she knew what OpenOffice was, if she had heard of Linux, and how many years she had been using Windows at the very least.

I’d also like to know how she managed to order a laptop with Ubuntu without realizing. Do any of Dell’s laptops default to ship with Ubuntu? If they don’t she must have selected it and the fault was hers. MATC should also update their submission policies to include formats other than Microsoft Word documents and embrace the OpenDocument format.

Another question to ask is whether this problem could have been resolved if new installs of Ubuntu (and other distros) came with a “New to Linux?” introductory presentation. This could load up on boot and offer a very simple introduction to performing the most common tasks like setting up the Internet, and using OpenOffice. I’m not talking about a text-heavy wiki or PDF here, but an actual visual presentation like that produced in Powerpoint or Impress. Does something like this already exist for new Linux users?

The popularity of Linux is clearly growing, as are the number of PC manufacturers offering it as an alternative to Windows. We are likely going to have more cases like this where a user gets Linux and learning resources just need to be in place to help get over those first few hurdles.

http://entertainment.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/15/158216

But it does raise a larger question about the adoption of Linux. How can the perception that Microsoft Windows and its trappings are effectively mandatory be overcome? Her computer can handle all of her needs: email, web browsing via Firefox, Microsoft Office-compatible documents via OpenOffice.org, and no need to "install" any Windows-only "Verizon High Speed Internet CD" to use Verizon DSL.

But since many Linux-advocates presumably want to see things like Ubuntu go mainstream, the answer can't be "this woman is a moron and the TV station is worse for covering it". Her problems, even if they seem ridiculous, were real enough to her. So how do you counter this kind of problem? (Some might say decent journalism could have helped here, but that's part and parcel of the perception problem.)

and

I don't blame the woman at all. Her complaints are entirely legitimate and are a direct result of marketing based education. NO ONE explains how anything ... works these days. Its all "put the CD in and MAGIC!" So of course the populace has no ... clue what is going on with how stuff works or even how to choose an alternative product.

I have had this battle on multiple occasions with my online classes trying to explain that I don't use Windows or MS Office. The difference is that I am an experienced user and I actually understand why the college is incorrect. They say it "requires Office XYZ" but what they mean is "you need to be able to create and edit Word compatible documents". Most users are going to take the statement "requires Office XYZ" literally because they don't understand the alternatives, and the people saying "requires Office XYZ" are probably even less likely to understand that there are even alternatives available

Original story: http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184

Follow up story: http://addins.wkowtv.com/blogs/troubleshooter/?p=24

Just how mean can come Ubuntu users get?: http://addins.wkowtv.com/blogs/behindthenews/archives/84

 

[EV0LUTION]

I really think the girl is at fault here. Anyone with a brain can look at ubuntu and say, "Hey, that's not windows!". If its not the product you ordered/wanted send it back, or install the proper OS.

 

[yellow]

No offence to all Ubuntu users, but some of them really need to get a life.

We can tell with your thread title "Ubuntu users are pathetic.", that you really mean it.

 

[iAthena]

Ubuntu is not for a person that doesn't even know what it is in the first place.

Having frequently Dell's site many times, I find it hard to believe that she could have accidently ordered a laptop with Ubuntu installed as the OS.

 

[Eidorian]

Older then the internet and it's pretty damn tough to order an Ubuntu machine unless you're either looking for it or get the Dell Mini 9.

 

[EV0LUTION]

Ubuntu is not for a person that doesn't even know what it is in the first place.

Having frequently Dell's site many times, I find it hard to believe that she could have accidently ordered a laptop with Ubuntu installed as the OS.

Exactly, You have to fight through a mess of links and warnings before you can order a dell "open" computer.

 

[0098386]

I really think the girl is at fault here. Anyone with a brain can look at ubuntu and say, "Hey, that's not windows!".

No, not really.
I gave computer lessons to a recently retired nuclear submarine technician a couple of years back. Absolute genius of a person but bought a cheap computer with some Linux installation on it, and wondered why his book about Windows XP didn't help at all.

 

[Topher15]

I really think the girl is at fault here. Anyone with a brain can look at ubuntu and say, "Hey, that's not windows!".

Of course, but that does not mean she suddenly should be expected to understand all of the other differences.

We can tell with your thread title "Ubuntu users are pathetic.", that you really mean it.

Well I mean the hardcore lot who got their knickers in a twist over what is nothing more than a stupid story about an OS. It's not the end of the world and yet they went out of their way to interpret it as an attack against Ubuntu. They don't give the wider Ubuntu community a good name.

Ubuntu is not for a person that doesn't even know what it is in the first place.

Exactly, which is why Dell must take some of the blame for persuading her to keep it.

Having frequently Dell's site many times, I find it hard to believe that she could have accidently ordered a laptop with Ubuntu installed as the OS.

I agree that its hard to actually order an Ubuntu laptop but that doesn't change the fact that somehow she did. In fact I've even read some Ubuntu users imply that because it is difficult the story must have been fabricated or intentional, just to attack Ubuntu.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Ubuntu users are no more "pathetic" than say windows users or osx users. The bottom line here is some precious little princess ordered a laptop. When it didn't work the way she thought it should have she called tech support. It was then, upon learning that her laptop did not have windows, that she should have boxed the thing back up and sent it back.

The OP's story is probably only half the full story. This girl contacting the news just goes to show how incredibly moronic she is.

I disagree with any user of any os sending stupid fanboi like e-mails all over defending their precious little system. However, the point of the post escapes me, if not to highlight that a mac user thinks a ubuntu user is pathetic, whereby, I believe the entire act of it all is ... pathetic.

 

[Topher15]

Ubuntu users are no more "pathetic" than say windows users or osx users. The bottom line here is some precious little princess ordered a laptop. When it didn't work the way she thought it should have she called tech support.

Errr, read the story. She did.

It was then, upon learning that her laptop did not have windows, that she should have boxed the thing back up and sent it back.

She was convinced by tech support to keep it.

This girl contacting the news just goes to show how incredibly moronic she is.

And how do you work this out? As ridiculous as her problems are to us, they were real to her, so she contacted the "troubleshooting" section of a local news outlet. Totally reasonable. I disagree that it is Dell fault for her missing her classes, but lets not assume everyone is tech savvy.

I disagree with any user of any os sending stupid fanboi like e-mails all over defending their precious little system. However, the point of the post escapes me, if not to highlight that a mac user thinks a ubuntu user is pathetic, whereby, I believe the entire act of it all is ... pathetic.

I'm not referring to ALL Ubuntu users, only those who need to get a life about all of this.

 

[mkrishnan]

Well I mean the hardcore lot who got their knickers in a twist over what is nothing more than a stupid story about an OS. It's not the end of the world and yet ....

Erm... pot calling kettle? I use Linux on an everyday basis and your hardcore angry post about a stupid story about an OS was the first time I'd heard of this "saga."

I do agree on the basic premise that selling linux to novices is not ready today (and will not be in the near future) unless it comes as a relatively ironclad, closed ecosystem (i.e. were the iPhone to run on Linux instead of Apple's Unix variant, no one would really care one way or the other, but people don't expect to be able to just go and buy Windows software and run it on it).

Asus tried this with the EeePC, but the problem they had there was that they didn't really (having no marketing foresight whatsoever) prep their market for the idea that their netbook was not intended to have software installed on it or be modified. And then of course they didn't roll out even obvious updates, like keeping Firefox updated.\

And please tone down the rhetoric... if the "get a life" theme continues, then this thread will be placed in the wasteland fairly soon.

 

[Abstract]

Ubuntu users are no more "pathetic" than say windows users or osx users. The bottom line here is some precious little princess ordered a laptop. When it didn't work the way she thought it should have she called tech support.

.....The OP's story is probably only half the full story. This girl contacting the news just goes to show how incredibly moronic she is.

Agreed. I blame her for pretty much everything, including making this all public on the news. She ordered the wrong computer ---- let's call the news. Sure, the Dell guy could have just exchanged it, but he's also right that using Ubuntu is nearly as "difficult" (or easy) as a Windows Vista computer to operate.

Don't agree? Let's look at her problems. If she couldn't get her Word documents open on Ubuntu, then she wouldn't have been able to get it running on a Windows computer either. Seriously. Double-click a Word document on Ubuntu, and Open Office automagically opens it. Same thing on Windows. All these Dells come with some form of MS Office, after all. Is double-clicking more difficult on Ubuntu?

Doubt she would have had more luck regarding her internet set up on a Windows computer.


She couldn't do what she wanted to do because she's not good with computers, not because of the difficulty (?) of Ubuntu. Was complaining to a news station the next step? If she couldn't get MS Word documents to open on a Windows computer (high possibility), or get her internet set up without issues (higher possibility), who or what would she have blamed? If she got help setting up her Ubuntu computer's internet, and then tech support asked her, "Have you tried double-clicking on your Word document?", she would have been just as royally screwed using Ubuntu as she would Vista.

I think the problem is that she's a big blubbering baby.

Exactly, which is why Dell must take some of the blame for persuading her to keep it.

In fact I've even read some Ubuntu users imply that because it is difficult the story must have been fabricated or intentional, just to attack Ubuntu.

You know what? It's so difficult to accidentally order a Dell running Ubuntu that I'd think that the story was possibly fabricated as well, just to create some personal conflict story involving those evil corporations who deceive customers through trickery, and at times, through magic and sorcery.

 

[Aea]

While I do hold a personal belief that most Ubuntu users have their head rather high up their posterior end, this situation is really the fault of the user.

Ordering Ubuntu, and then not replacing it with Windows. Plus it's pre installed, the hardest part about using Ubuntu is getting it installed and working if the auto installation doesn't work out properly the first time around.

 

[Killyp]

I really think the girl is at fault here. Anyone with a brain can look at ubuntu and say, "Hey, that's not windows!". If its not the product you ordered/wanted send it back, or install the proper OS.

Disagreed. In fact most people don't actually know what an OS or Operating System is.

When I got my Mac about 3 years ago, there were a lot of people at school who didn't know what a Mac was and thought it was a PC but "with all the bits in the wrong place". A lot of people at school still think a computer is faulty unless there's a start button.

For (I would say) 40% of the general public using computers, the difference between Ubuntu and Windows is small, other than not being able to run their Word and Excel on Ubuntu.

 

[No1451]

Dumb to bring it to the news, but the tech support guy really had the obligation to get her to bring it back.

What really gets me isn't the hate from either side, its the lack of basic knowledge of an item that most people use every day of their lives, and that we all rely on to live the way we do.

 

[Queso]

Yes, they are. Real Debian is much better

 

[cherry su]

so what is the probability that she clicked the correct links on Dell's site to order the ubuntu notebook? it's one OVER 9000!!!!!!!! (as in 1/9000)

[/randomness]

 

[Topher15]

Erm... pot calling kettle?

Not quite.

If she couldn't get her Word documents open on Ubuntu, then she wouldn't have been able to get it running on a Windows computer either. Seriously. Double-click a Word document on Ubuntu, and Open Office automagically opens it. Same thing on Windows. All these Dells come with some form of MS Office, after all. Is double-clicking more difficult on Ubuntu?

She could not install Word. And it seems she didn't know what OpenOffice was, or that it was installed on her computer. So without Word, and not knowing about OpenOffice, she though she was screwed. This may sound ridiculous to you but lets not judge people according to our level of expertise. If the course outline said 'requires Microsoft Word' most people will take that literally rather than 'requires software that can open and edit Word documents'. In fact I doubt many will even be aware that other programs are compatible with Word.

She couldn't do what she wanted to do because she's not good with computers, not because of the difficulty (?) of Ubuntu.

Not necessarily. If she has a Windows computer her internet install CD would have worked, and she would have been able to install Word.

If she couldn't get MS Word documents to open on a Windows computer (high possibility), or get her internet set up without issues (higher possibility), who or what would she have blamed?

She went to the news outlet not for tech help, but to complain about Dell. I think her complaint was wrong, but that's not the issue here. The issue is (a) that her troubles were understandable, (b) that Dell shouldn't have recommended she keep Ubuntu, and (c) the response and behaviour of some Ubuntu users.

Ordering Ubuntu, and then not replacing it with Windows.

Because she was persuaded to keep it.

She's not blameless in this whole thing; she should have done things which she didn't do, but it isn't all her fault, and her confusion is understandable. She probably represents most computer users out there.

 

[Sesshi]

I think you mean "Pathetic users are pathetic."

Well spotted, old boy.

 

[twoodcc]

it seems to me that the girl is at fault. granted, the ubuntu users shouldn't have done those things, but you get that with anything. i bet apple users would do something similar

 

[xboxer75010]

I agree that the girl is mostly at fault. She states that she called Dell and they "convinced" or "persuaded" her to keep the notebook with ubuntu. What that statement means to me is that she brought up her issues with the computer and they must have had good counter arguments that in the end made her want to keep the laptop. So I do not see what the issue is, if she really did not want the laptop, how could she have been persuaded to keep it?

I think that this is an issue about the girls attitude toward the events that followed, if I do not know anything about cars, I am not going to go out and blindly buy a automobile. I am going to do some research and then if I still do not feel confident, I am going to find someone that know something about cars and have them help me pick one out, so that I don't end up buying a diesel and trying to put regular gas in it.

I think that the ubuntu users should not have reacted as they did but the girl should admit fault. There is no way that she should have dropped classes because of this. All school have to provide on school computers for the students as we all don't have access to computers at home. So that was no excuse. I just hope that she can learn from this event and I have no idea why this has gotten so much media attention.

 

[mkrishnan]

Not quite.

Witty riposte. I should be slain in an instant.

On the topic of Ubuntu coming pre-installed on computers, however, I am really interested to see if Netbook Remix can ultimately create for itself an ecosystem like the iPhone's (but presumably only with OSS) that can simplify Linux for basic computers on which installing custom software is a relatively low priority (compared to Windows or OS X desktops, but not compared to the iPhone, say) to the point that it could work. If Ubuntu can ultimately come up with packages that customize the most important apps to appear and work properly within the visual constraints of Remix, it would be a pretty great system.

 

[iAthena]

Looks like a marketing opportunity for Apple to me. They should give her a Macbook and record her amazement at how easy it is to get it up and going versus what she experience with either Ubuntu or Dell.

 

[VoR]

Everything has been said, my response is identical to #12 and #21 (apart from the media coverage bit, first I've heard)

edit:

Looks like a marketing opportunity for Apple to me. They should give her a Macbook and record her amazement at how easy it is to get it up and going versus what she experience with either Ubuntu or Dell.

I think most os' are just as 'easy to get it up and going' as each other. If you buy preinstalled you just push the on switch, if you've a blank system (not that a complete novice would) you put a cd in and switch it on.
For a complete beginner to computers I can't see a huge amount of difference between os'. Things like connecting to the internet is a case of plugging your modem in as per the instruction leaflet, worst case scenario you might have to spend 5mins calling your ISP up to get them to talk you through. Using the computer is a case of trial and error, and maybe even doing a little reading... I also don't think osx or windows compare to the simplicity of installing software in ubuntu to actually get things done and anyway, it comes installed with a solution to virtually every average use.

Saying this, I can't see linux on the average desktop for a while (although it's fine for most right now). Most dev is focussed for server uses/benchmarks etc and the massive range of apps that make a desktop system are both a big positive and negative. Ubuntu does a pretty decent job (it's just like osx or windows) but I think it's pretty awful (que?)

 

[gkarris]

She also says Dell claimed it was now too late to get Windows and any changes she made herself would void her warranty.

I agree that the girl is mostly at fault. She states that she called Dell and they "convinced" or "persuaded" her to keep the notebook with ubuntu. What that statement means to me is that she brought up her issues with the computer and they must have had good counter arguments that in the end made her want to keep the laptop. So I do not see what the issue is, if she really did not want the laptop, how could she have been persuaded to keep it?

Because dHell's "wonderful tech support" does that sort of thing....

The CR rep in India more than likely wanted to get her off the phone asap and not bother with returning the laptop or, God forbid, actually help a customer...

If Dell was actually a good company, they would've just admitted that she made an order mistake and sent her the Windows recovery discs and a license, even charge her the $99 for it...

Now look, it has all been blown out of proportion...