Update Haswell

[ChaosMaster16]

I want to purchase a rMBP 13" BUT I think the specs are not as good as some people say next years will be. When do you think Apple will update the specs? March, April?

How much will Haswell improve the notebook?

 

[nuckinfutz]

I want to purchase a rMBP 13" BUT I think the specs are not as good as some people say next years will be. When do you think Apple will update the specs? March, April?

How much will Haswell improve the notebook?

Oct 2013 if we're still here
#apocalypse

Haswell is a new architecture so there's still much under wraps but what is known is that it will have a considerable improvement in GPU power and AVX instructions. It also should make many core systems easier with TSX extensions. All in all it's the Tick in the "Tick Tock" release cycle.

 

[yanksrock100]

I want to purchase a rMBP 13" BUT I think the specs are not as good as some people say next years will be. When do you think Apple will update the specs? March, April?

How much will Haswell improve the notebook?

Apple will update the lineup with Haswell once it is released, which could be released in Summer. (or later). I don't expect Apple to update the lineup (which was vastly upgraded today), in 5 months.

To be honest, you could wait and wait for the next "big" thing....there will always be something new around the corner. If you like the 13 rMBP, you should just get it and not wait another year.

 

[Michason]

People seem to complain more about the graphics card and less about the processors.

To get to the point: I dont understand why people see Haswell as the savior, shouldn't it be a new and better graphics card instead?

 

[wethackrey]

I want to purchase a rMBP 13" BUT I think the specs are not as good as some people say next years will be. When do you think Apple will update the specs? March, April?

How much will Haswell improve the notebook?

Haswell is the latest in the continuing parade of "next great things" that is the hallmark of the computer industry. To those of us who have been watching this parade for a few decades now, it's become comical.

Haswell is expected to begin to be released mid-2013. Intel usually rolls out server versions first, though that may change. I'd expect Apple has prototyping silicon now but I wouldn't expect to see a MacBook Pro using Haswell architecture until late summer at the earliest.

There will ALWAYS be some "next great thing" looming in the computer industry. The only sane way to approach decision making is this: Do you have a need now that can be fulfilled by a product you can buy now? If so, buy it now. The productivity you'll lose trying to buy exactly the right product at exactly the right time will be enormous.

 

[shansoft]

Haswell is the latest in the continuing parade of "next great things" that is the hallmark of the computer industry. To those of us who have been watching this parade for a few decades now, it's become comical.

Haswell is expected to begin to be released mid-2013. Intel usually rolls out server versions first, though that may change. I'd expect Apple has prototyping silicon now but I wouldn't expect to see a MacBook Pro using Haswell architecture until late summer at the earliest.

There will ALWAYS be some "next great thing" looming in the computer industry. The only sane way to approach decision making is this: Do you have a need now that can be fulfilled by a product you can buy now? If so, buy it now. The productivity you'll lose trying to buy exactly the right product at exactly the right time will be enormous.

There is already a prototype chips for hardware engineers for about 4-5 months now, and there are quite a few of them got "burn" from what I know.

Don't expect too much of performance increase, that's all I can say for now.

 

[ArchAndroid]

From the speculative information I've garnered on Haswell, there is supposed to be a doubling of graphical performance compared with the current Intel HD Graphics 4000, but only about a 5-15% gain in CPU performance. I would expect it to be a bit more power efficient as it will be the second generation on the 22nm process.

 

[omgitscro]

People seem to complain more about the graphics card and less about the processors.

To get to the point: I dont understand why people see Haswell as the savior, shouldn't it be a new and better graphics card instead?

Ivy Bridge includes the HD4000 just as Haswell includes the [HD5000?]. One variant of Haswell is supposed to include 128MB of dedicated memory, thus making the "integrated" GPU (which is already supposed to be noticeably faster than the HD4000) essentially a dedicated one. Who knows if the r13" will include that variant though?

 

[iPersian]

are you guys sure that haswell will be that late? does this mean that no update on MBPr will come before summer-october? that means that apple wont update this laptop over a year after its release.


i though that haswell would be introduced from april, the last batch in june.

 

[unobtainium]

People seem to complain more about the graphics card and less about the processors.

To get to the point: I dont understand why people see Haswell as the savior, shouldn't it be a new and better graphics card instead?

I don't think the 13" rMBP will ever get discrete graphics, though. So if you're concerned about the GPU, or value-for-money, you're probably better off waiting for Haswell (in June-Julyish). The buzz is that it dramatically increases performance of Intel's integrated GPU, and of course Apple will probably drop the price a bit and add more storage and RAM upgradability. If you don't need an rMBP now, I wouldn't take the plunge yet.

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are you guys sure that haswell will be that late? does this mean that no update on MBPr will come before summer-october? that means that apple wont update this laptop over a year after its release.


i though that haswell would be introduced from april, the last batch in june.

Intel seems to be releasing just over a year after their last chip. So Sandy Bridge was March, Ivy Bridge was April, Haswell may be May or June. Whether Apple will release updates right away is another matter, of course. And it's all speculation. But Intel likes to milk each release as much as possible before putting out a new chip.

 

[iPersian]

i see. hope i can wait that long for a decent MBPr. i found the integrated card sluggish. this plus the awful displays made me think about returning both of my MBPrs and wait for apple to fix the baby/first release issues.

had problems with my first gen intel macbook pro also.


i think its a big mistake to buy first gen apple products as im sure 2 gen/rev will make things alot better.


if apple releases a speed bump on the graphics side and solves the display issues then i wont wait.

 

[Agenesis]

March or April sounds about right. Thats when haswell is dated to release for both OSX and Windows laptops.

Apple usually gets the ball rolling a bit earlier so it'll be ahead of other manufacturers. From today's example anyone who buys the 13'' rMBP now is asking for a 5 or 6 month life cycle, adding to the fact that this isn't their 2nd time refreshing the MBP line in less than a year. Apple won't be waiting around and let other laptops get a head start with Haswell while they're waiting until the October of next year.

...And by that time Broadwell will be coming so if they really delay Haswell until October they'll always be a generation behind. My guess is that the 13'' is supposed to be released in June but since its a new lineup and all it got a little bit delayed.

 

[wethackrey]

March or April sounds about right. Thats when haswell is dated to release for both OSX and Windows laptops.

Apple usually gets the ball rolling a bit earlier so it'll be ahead of other manufacturers. From today's example anyone who buys the 13'' rMBP now is asking for a 5 or 6 month life cycle, adding to the fact that this isn't their 2nd time refreshing the MBP line in less than a year. Apple won't be waiting around and let other laptops get a head start with Haswell while they're waiting until the October of next year.

...And by that time Broadwell will be coming so if they really delay Haswell until October they'll always be a generation behind. My guess is that the 13'' is supposed to be released in June but since its a new lineup and all it got a little bit delayed.

Hey don't get me wrong... I believe Apple will be out with Haswell-based laptops as soon as they feel they can get the parts in volume. If Intel is on their game, that may be as early as June 2013. From the industry buzz, it doesn't seem like it could be much sooner than that.

I do think delaying a purchase decision on a new computer based on some performance gain you think you may get in the future is a loser's game. But then it's my preference to stay on the leading edge of the performance curve. I generally buy a new computer every 12-13 months. I'm most always able to sell the old one at that point for a relatively modest financial hit. This is predicated on taking care of my hardware, and keeping packaging, etc. which I do anyway. I most always buy at the high end. I replaced a 17" anti-glare MBP with a 15" 16GB/768GB MBPr. Over the years my net annual computer expense is in the neighborhood of $600-800, which I find acceptable for a machine I make my living with.

The fly in that ointment is the girlfriend who needs a new computer. That can start to skew the plan to the point where it gets pretty pricey. But that doesn't show up as "computer expense" on my P&L .

 

[Maczor]

So much fuss about Haswell... I'm quite confident it won't live up to the Sci-Fi expectations of many and we'll just see a flood of "Haswell sucks... I have low FPS in game... my notebook freezes / lags" threads once it hits. After Haswell, everyone will be salivating for whatever the next generation will be called... "sure, wait until 2014-2015 cause Xwell will be 2-3 times as fast!!!" Right... that's exactly how it will play out...

 

[dnkbro]

So much fuss about Haswell... I'm quite confident it won't live up to the Sci-Fi expectations of many and we'll just see a flood of "Haswell sucks... I have low FPS in game... my notebook freezes / lags" threads once it hits. After Haswell, everyone will be salivating for whatever the next generation will be called... "sure, wait until 2014-2015 cause Xwell will be 2-3 times as fast!!!" Right... that's exactly how it will play out...

I completely agree with you. I'm just taken back by the price point on the rMBP 13". $1699 is far too much money for the computer. I'll wait until the price is lowered.

 

[Maczor]

I agree about the price. It should be slightly cheaper. ... unfortunately, I doubt the price will drop. Only if you wait for the next update when the new model will have the current model's price. Question is: will the current model still be offered? If it will, then expect cMBP to disappear from the list.

 

[dusk007]

Apple usually gets the ball rolling a bit earlier so it'll be ahead of other manufacturers. From today's example anyone who buys the 13'' rMBP now is asking for a 5 or 6 month life cycle, adding to the fact that this isn't their 2nd time refreshing the MBP line in less than a year. Apple won't be waiting around and let other laptops get a head start with Haswell while they're waiting until the October of next year.

Actually the last few times around Apple has always been late to the game. 2010 was 2 months later than the first windows notebooks. 2011 and 2012 Apple also took its time. Apple will and has to wait until they get enough decent chips. This always takes quite a bit after the launch from Intel.

 

[voyagerd]

Hopefully Apple wont release updated rMBPs too long after the Intel 4th Gen Core Processors are released. I have an Early 2008 MacBook Pro that I have been planning on upgrading next year if I can save up some money for it. The new CPUs look to be shaping up nicely.

 

[mac jones]

Yes the Mayans tell a different story. I'm buying today as I doesn't look good for mankind.

But really the end of the world will happen anyway if Romney wins

 

[Daniel L]

Oct 2013 if we're still here
#apocalypse

Haswell is a new architecture so there's still much under wraps but what is known is that it will have a considerable improvement in GPU power and AVX instructions. It also should make many core systems easier with TSX extensions. All in all it's the Tick in the "Tick Tock" release cycle.

Just nitpicking but it's actually a "Tock" so it should bring much more significant upgrades than Sandy Bridge -> Ivy Bridge.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Just nitpicking but it's actually a "Tock" so it should bring much more significant upgrades than Sandy Bridge -> Ivy Bridge.

You are correct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock

I had been flipping it all these years (not that it was a huge deal anyways)

Not sure i'm seeing the logic of Intel's naming scheme. To me a "Tick" represents the high point of a cycle and some clocks even denote it with a slightly higher frequency or amplitude.

Ideally wouldn't you want this to be your new architecture? Followed by the "Tock" which would be a new process?

 

[Mr MM]

You are correct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock

I had been flipping it all these years (not that it was a huge deal anyways)

Not sure i'm seeing the logic of Intel's naming scheme. To me a "Tick" represents the high point of a cycle and some clocks even denote it with a slightly higher frequency or amplitude.

Ideally wouldn't you want this to be your new architecture? Followed by the "Tock" which would be a new process?

doesnt really matter.

thing is the revamp on the gpu arch for the icore series is going to be on broadwell, wiht haswell we are just seeing gains on the amount of execution units they are going to put in there and refinements on the pipeline a real new arch of the gpu is only on the tick in this case

 

[nuckinfutz]

doesnt really matter.

thing is the revamp on the gpu arch for the icore series is going to be on broadwell, wiht haswell we are just seeing gains on the amount of execution units they are going to put in there and refinements on the pipeline a real new arch of the gpu is only on the tick in this case

With Haswell i'm most excited with the improved GPU. TSX Extension for multi-threaded apps and AVX improvements.

It should be a capable core. Of course there will be other small "surprise and delights".

In fact when I look at Apple's Mac lineup I can see where Haswell's power efficiency may have had a causal effect on the slimming of the iMac and Retina displays. Why carry the bulk if you don't need to?

 

[neteng101]

All this tick tock business aside - we already have a benchmark in the HD 4000. Does it handle retina displays seamlessly? Answer no. Haswell can only help things, and given the 50-100% more GPU power we're hearing, its safe to say Haswell will be significant for retina MBPs.

 

[Mr MM]

With Haswell i'm most excited with the improved GPU. TSX Extension for multi-threaded apps and AVX improvements.

It should be a capable core. Of course there will be other small "surprise and delights".

In fact when I look at Apple's Mac lineup I can see where Haswell's power efficiency may have had a causal effect on the slimming of the iMac and Retina displays. Why carry the bulk if you don't need to?

Thats why I said, amount of EUs and the pipeline, but a real new gpu is only going to be available on broadwell

Im thinking of waiting next year to buy the rmbp 13 or go for broadwell in the end

All this tick tock business aside - we already have a benchmark in the HD 4000. Does it handle retina displays seamlessly? Answer no. Haswell can only help things, and given the 50-100% more GPU power we're hearing, its safe to say Haswell will be significant for retina MBPs.

The HD 4000 can do those things, the software/firmware is the limitation. You dont see people complaining about lag scrolling when they arent using the scaling options, but the full res