Using HDTV as a monitor

[hotwire132002]

Hey,

I picked up an HDMI to DVI cable to hook my HDTV (a Sanyo 30" model) up to my G5. I want to use to TV as an HD monitor while editing HD content in Final Cut Pro. My problem is, I'm getting choppy video on the HD set. When I view the same HD video on my LCD, it looks fine. I think that either the G5 is sending out a progressive signal that the TV is interlacing poorly, or that the graphics card in the G5 (9600, I belive) is having a hard time driving a 1920x1080 display at 30 fps.

Any ideas how to get a smoother picture to the set? Anybody experienced a similar problem? Thanks in advance for any help on this!

 

[James Philp]

Considering that that is less than the resolution of the 23" ACD, I don't think it's the G5's problem.
Consider fiddling with your display settings.

In my experience, TVs never display outputs from Macs as well as a display does.

The 30" runs at 2560 x 1600 which can be run from any of the PM line now.

 

[acedickson]

I'm 99% positive the problem is the resolution you have the PM sending to the HDTV. Unless you have a new 1080p HDTV, which I'm almost certain you don't, then you can't display a 1080p picture on a 1080i TV. 1080i is comparable to 540p if it were progressive instead of interlaced.

Try setting the resolution to 800x600. Your TV's best display option is 720p so you can't go bigger than 800x600 without problems. 1024x768 isn't possible for the same reasons as 1080 mentioned above. It's more pixels than your TV has fro top to bottom. 800x600 on your HDTV should yield the best results.

 

[hotwire132002]

I'm 99% positive the problem is the resolution you have the PM sending to the HDTV. Unless you have a new 1080p HDTV, which I'm almost certain you don't, then you can't display a 1080p picture on a 1080i TV. 1080i is comparable to 540p if it were progressive instead of interlaced.

Try setting the resolution to 800x600. Your TV's best display option is 720p so you can't go bigger than 800x600 without problems. 1024x768 isn't possible for the same reasons as 1080 mentioned above. It's more pixels than your TV has fro top to bottom. 800x600 on your HDTV should yield the best results.

The problem is I need to monitor at full HD resolution. Is there any way to send out an interlaced signal from the Mac?

EDIT: Just tried sending out a 720p signal, and it worked fine. So, I think the issue is probably that the mac is sending out a 1080p and the TV is trying to take a 1080i. Any ideas?

 

[shompa]

whats the real resolution on the TV?

I havent seen many HD TVs that have a real resolution of 1024x768.

So when you try to run a higher resolution, the TV needs to blend the pixels = unsharp picture.

Today there are NO plasma 42 inch with a resolution of more than 1024x768.
I dont understand how they can market them as HD

 

[hotwire132002]

whats the real resolution on the TV?

I havent seen many HD TVs that have a real resolution of 1024x768.

So when you try to run a higher resolution, the TV needs to blend the pixels = unsharp picture.

Today there are NO plasma 42 inch with a resolution of more than 1024x768.
I dont understand how they can market them as HD

It's a CRT HDTV--the native resolution is 1920x1080, interlaced (1080i).

I think the problem stems from sending out a 1080p image from the G5. Is there a way to confirm the signal going out is interlaced?

 

[dejo]

FYI: 800x600 and 1024x768 are not HD if for no other reason than the fact that they are not the correct aspect ratio. They are 4:3 or 1.33:1 and to be HD means to be 16:9 or 1.78:1.

 

[shompa]

FYI: 800x600 and 1024x768 are not HD if for no other reason than the fact that they are not the correct aspect ratio. They are 4:3 or 1.33:1 and to be HD means to be 16:9 or 1.78:1.

Yes, I know.

The problem is that they market TVs, LCDs and Plasma as HD.
Still there arent pixels to support that resolution.

I still havent found a native HDTV here in Sweden and its technology impossible to have HD on a plasma screen.

LCD/CRT, I dont know.

 

[acedickson]

The point I was trying to get across earlier is that you can't use a resolution higher than 800x600 without difficulties like you've experienced. You won't be able to view in 1080p because the TV doesn't support it. The optimal settings would appear to be 720p at a res of 800x600. That's what i use on my 51" Sony HDTV.

 

[hotwire132002]

The point I was trying to get across earlier is that you can't use a resolution higher than 800x600 without difficulties like you've experienced. You won't be able to view in 1080p because the TV doesn't support it. The optimal settings would appear to be 720p at a res of 800x600. That's what i use on my 51" Sony HDTV.

Actually, the setting that I can get to work best is 720p--which would be 1280x720. 800x600 wouldn't be 720p . Anyway, if there's a way to get a 1080i signal out of the G5--and anyone knows how to pull that off--I'd love to hear it! In the mean time, 720p looks pretty darn good.

 

[dejo]

Anyway, if there's a way to get a 1080i signal out of the G5--and anyone knows how to pull that off--I'd love to hear it!

I believe it all depends on the capability of the video card in your G5. What kind of card do you have?

 

[hotwire132002]

I believe it all depends on the capability of the video card in your G5. What kind of card do you have?

The stock card in a Dual 2.5--I think it's a Radeon 9600 (I'm not at the G5 at the moment, so I can't check that. Sorry!)

 

[acedickson]

Actually, the setting that I can get to work best is 720p--which would be 1280x720. 800x600 wouldn't be 720p . Anyway, if there's a way to get a 1080i signal out of the G5--and anyone knows how to pull that off--I'd love to hear it! In the mean time, 720p looks pretty darn good.

I realize the contradiction there. Your graphics card allows display of ....x720? I wasn't aware that there was such a setting. I need to upgrade if there is, I'm using 800x600 as my resolution.

As for using 1080i, why? 1080i is worse than 720p. Think of 1080i as 540p. Do you really want 1080i over 720p?

 

[hotwire132002]

I realize the contradiction there. Your graphics card allows display of ....x720? I wasn't aware that there was such a setting. I need to upgrade if there is, I'm using 800x600 as my resolution.

As for using 1080i, why? 1080i is worse than 720p. Think of 1080i as 540p. Do you really want 1080i over 720p?

I'd like 1080i because I'm shooting in 1080i--HDR-FX1 camera. However, you make a good point. I don't see much of a difference at all between the 1080i output from the camera and the 720p output from the G5.

Supposedly, if you read into all the 1080i vs 720p stuff at some of the HD/video forums, the two standards come out to about the same quality. They do to my eyes, anyway.

For now, 720p works. If anyone has a method to get 1080i out of the G5, though, I'd love to know about it!

 

[acedickson]

Hope everything works out for you. Sorry if I confused more than helped also, lol. Good Luck!

 

[aloofman]

I'm 99% positive the problem is the resolution you have the PM sending to the HDTV. Unless you have a new 1080p HDTV, which I'm almost certain you don't, then you can't display a 1080p picture on a 1080i TV. 1080i is comparable to 540p if it were progressive instead of interlaced.

I think you're right that the progressive/interlaced discrepancy is causing his problem. But 1080i is NOT comparable to 540p. The former would qualify as HD, the latter wouldn't. They wouldn't look the same at all. Progressive scanning doesn't improve the resolution of the image. It only improves the sharpness and motion smoothness because the scan lines are shown in order instead of being split between two fields, assuming the same frame rate.

If the source media is progressive and the playback monitor tries to show it in interlaced (or vice-versa), then it will look like crap, especially scenes with lots of motion. Or it might not display at all. You can often see this when you try to play a DVD movie on a computer monitor, for example.

 

[jeremy.king]

All this HD talk got me to thinking: "I really want one of these (or similar)"

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-2IrtXkTSyYG/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=153650&I=284LC45GD6

 

[hotwire132002]

All this HD talk got me to thinking: "I really want one of these (or similar)"

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-2IrtXkTSyYG/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=153650&I=284LC45GD6

Nice! I'd get one, but I just invested in the HD camera. My set is a cheapie, but works really well! A Sanyo 30" from (Gulp--I didn't say this ) Wal-Mart. Anyway, $562 when I bought it--not a bad deal. Built in HD tuner, HDMI, a couple component inputs, pretty much all the bells and whistles.

I'm happy

 

[ftaok]

Nice! I'd get one, but I just invested in the HD camera. My set is a cheapie, but works really well! A Sanyo 30" from (Gulp--I didn't say this ) Wal-Mart. Anyway, $562 when I bought it--not a bad deal. Built in HD tuner, HDMI, a couple component inputs, pretty much all the bells and whistles.

I'm happy

Have you tried SwitchResX or DisplayConfig? I think that's what they're called. Both are shareware apps that will allow you to adjust the resolution and frequencies to something more compatible with TVs.

 

[hotwire132002]

Have you tried SwitchResX or DisplayConfig? I think that's what they're called. Both are shareware apps that will allow you to adjust the resolution and frequencies to something more compatible with TVs.

An excellent suggestion! I just tried it, but, unfortunately, with no luck. Any other ideas?

 

[XIII]

Yes, I know.

The problem is that they market TVs, LCDs and Plasma as HD.
Still there arent pixels to support that resolution.

I still havent found a native HDTV here in Sweden and its technology impossible to have HD on a plasma screen.

LCD/CRT, I dont know.

I'm having trouble finding a decent HDTV in the UK. Any suggestions anyone..

 

[acedickson]

I think you're right that the progressive/interlaced discrepancy is causing his problem. But 1080i is NOT comparable to 540p. The former would qualify as HD, the latter wouldn't. They wouldn't look the same at all. Progressive scanning doesn't improve the resolution of the image. It only improves the sharpness and motion smoothness because the scan lines are shown in order instead of being split between two fields, assuming the same frame rate.

If the source media is progressive and the playback monitor tries to show it in interlaced (or vice-versa), then it will look like crap, especially scenes with lots of motion. Or it might not display at all. You can often see this when you try to play a DVD movie on a computer monitor, for example.

I know it's not the same since interlaced alternates refreshing even and then odd lines, while progressive refreshes every line sequentially. It was the only way I could come up with a for instance. The main thing i wanted to express is that 720p is better than 1080i.

 

[hotwire132002]

The main thing i wanted to express is that 720p is better than 1080i.

Let's not even go there... Based on some of the TV production forums I visit, going into a 720p vs 1080i argument is not a good idea

 

[aloofman]

The main thing i wanted to express is that 720p is better than 1080i.

It is. If your content was originally shot at 720p and not all HD footage is. If it isn't, then there's a good chance that you're converting the image on the fly, which doesn't take advantage of progressive scanning at all. It would have been more accurate if you had said: "If we could choose whether all HD was in either 720p or 1080i, we'd probably go with 720p."

Both HD formats are out there now. An HD monitor that can't handle both well is not worth buying.

 

[hotwire132002]

It is. If your content was originally shot at 720p and not all HD footage is. If it isn't, then there's a good chance that you're converting the image on the fly, which doesn't take advantage of progressive scanning at all. It would have been more accurate if you had said: "If we could choose whether all HD was in either 720p or 1080i, we'd probably go with 720p."

Both HD formats are out there now. An HD monitor that can't handle both well is not worth buying.

I'm going to have to disagree there. The two standards are very comparable in quality, and both have their places in HD television. I'm going to try not to turn this into another 1080i vs. 720p thread, so I'll stop there.