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Vision Pro - Best gaming headset - Would Apple Block It ?

Piggie

Piggie

macrumors G3
Original poster
Feb 23, 2010
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Knowing how much a strong section of enthusiasts love gaming in VR.
Anything from Flight Sims, BeatSabre/Fitness apps, Scary Virtual experience etc etc.

Realistically this needs to be via Steam VR.

Do you think Apple will block programs such as Virtual Desktop to deliberately stop they headset being used this way?
Naturally they want buyers to by all their content via their own app stores and scrape their 30% on all sales.

For those wanting a super clear headset for amazing gaming (apart from Field of View which I understand is OK as opposed to anything special for the Apple Headset) getting an Apple Vision Pro and simply using it for Steam VR Gaming could be "A Thing"

Unless Apple blocks this from working.

Do you think Apple would block this from working, or allow those in the community that love VR Gaming to enjoy this headset for that use case?
 
It is likely Apple will allow it unless it is contrary to law or creates excessive bad press.
 
Wouldn't latency be bad? Or picture quality? How do you get 23 million pixels from a PC to the headset? At 90 fps? I don't think the Vision Pro has a DisplayPort or USB-C input?

The Vision Pro can display your Mac's screen but that's only 6 million pixels and doesn't need to be fast frame rate since its only 2D.

Besides getting an image to the display, you need to get data from the headset (for direction and orientation - also would be nice to get info about hand gestures and such).
 
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joevt said:
Wouldn't latency be bad? Or picture quality? How do you get 23 million pixels from a PC to the headset? At 90 fps? I don't think the Vision Pro has a DisplayPort or USB-C input?

The Vision Pro can display your Mac's screen but that's only 6 million pixels and doesn't need to be fast frame rate since its only 2D.

Besides getting an image to the display, you need to get data from the headset (for direction and orientation - also would be nice to get info about hand gestures and such).
Click to expand...
Indeed.
However WiFi and Ethernet standards are improving/evolving over time.

2.5 Gigabit Ethernet and Wifi 6a

With Wifi 7 not THAT far behind:

"5x faster speeds than WiFi 6E
WiFi 7 increases maximum speeds from 9.6Gbps to a stunning 46Gbps, so you can take full advantage of today’s ultra-fast internet plans with gigabit-plus performance on your devices."

By the time the Apple headset is out, WiFi 7 should be easy to obtain, and given the promised speed bump I'd imagine if not 100% perfect it would give the best visuals anyone have ever seen in a Game so far (apart from field of view)
 
I hope it’ll be as open as MacOS and not walled like the Oculus where you can only install apps approved by The Zuck
 
LiemTa said:
I hope it’ll be as open as MacOS and not walled like the Oculus where you can only install apps approved by The Zuck
Click to expand...
That's a bit of a weird thing to say as noone is as controlling apple when it comes to such things.
You can use a meta headset to connect to anything really via cable or desktop streaming apps.

I've just listened to a podcast which mentioned quite a large thing.
Is the Apple headset going to be all iOS focussed and built upon?
Is this why iOS is being given more desktop abilities?

The headsets probably never going to run Mac OS itself, only iOS I would guess.

But I'm sure Apple would not be stupid enough to not have some AirLink method to connect your Headset to your actual Mac. And run proper Mac apps
 
The problem with gaming on the Vision Pro is that it does not have a powerful GPU for VR gaming. Not the AAA kind at least.

The M2 has a 3.6 tflops. For comparison, the PSVR tethers to the PS5 which has 10.3 tflops. There is no way the M2 will provide a better gaming experience than other VR headsets that can tether to a PC or console. The gap in GPU power is too large.

Therefore, you will always get an inferior gaming experience.
 
senttoschool said:
The problem with gaming on the Vision Pro is that it does not have a powerful GPU for VR gaming. Not the AAA kind at least.

The M2 has a 3.6 tflops. For comparison, the PSVR tethers to the PS5 which has 10.3 tflops. There is no way the M2 will provide a better gaming experience than other VR headsets that can tether to a PC or console. The gap in GPU power is too large.

Therefore, you will always get an inferior gaming experience.
Click to expand...

Would a 3nm M3 with Ray Tracing GPU cores help?

There was rumors of the last iPhone chip allegedly supposed to have Ray Tracing but got junked very late in the development cycle due to too much power consumption.

After 52W it should be fixed by now.
 
Longplays said:
Would a 3nm M3 with Ray Tracing GPU cores help?

There was rumors of the last iPhone chip allegedly supposed to have Ray Tracing but got junked very late in the development cycle due to too much power consumption.

After 52W it should be fixed by now.
Click to expand...
Let's just go with Tflops for gaming performance because we don't have anything else better. Note that tflops does not always correlate to gaming performance.

M1 = 2.5 tflops
M2 = 3.6 tflops
PS5 = 10.3 tflops

Let's assume that M3 will have 40% better GPU performance. 3.6 * 1.4 = 5 tflops. That's still half of the PS5 while driving 3x more pixels than the PSVR.

So in order for a base M SoC to match a PS5 in gaming, we'll need M5, assuming 40% improvement for every generation. If you assume that it takes Apple 1.5 years to release a new SoC, then the Vision Pro could match the PS5 in gaming in about 3.5 years. In that time, we might be close to getting a PS6.

If the Vision Pro can house an M3 Pro, it could match the PS5 as soon as next year.

Perhaps Apple will making a Vision Ultra some day and put an M Pro SoC in there. Or maybe Apple will allow you to someday pair with a Macbook for gaming like how the PSVR pairs with a PS5.
 
senttoschool said:
Let's just go with Tflops for gaming performance because we don't have anything else better. Note that tflops does not always correlate to gaming performance.

M1 = 2.5 tflops
M2 = 3.6 tflops
PS5 = 10.3 tflops

Let's assume that M3 will have 40% better GPU performance. 3.6 * 1.4 = 5 tflops. That's still half of the PS5 while driving 3x more pixels than the PSVR.

So in order for a base M SoC to match a PS5 in gaming, we'll need M5, assuming 40% improvement for every generation. If you assume that it takes Apple 1.5 years to release a new SoC, then the Vision Pro could match the PS5 in gaming in about 3.5 years. In that time, we might be close to getting a PS6.

If the Vision Pro can house an M3 Pro, it could match the PS5 as soon as next year.

Perhaps Apple will making a Vision Ultra some day and put an M Pro SoC in there. Or maybe Apple will allow you to someday pair with a Macbook for gaming like how the PSVR pairs with a PS5.
Click to expand...

PS5 doesn't have a 99Wh(?) battery with reported 2hrs of battery life.

Not to mention the M2/M3 may be "good enough" for what Apple's priority use case are.

If you say a 10.3Tflops is a requirement then Apple is likely to delay it until a chip that complies with that requirement becomes available in the future.

Putting a future M3, M3 Pro, M3 Max or even M3 Ultra chip into a future iMac Pro may be better use of resources as they can charge north of $500.

Think of it as AMOLED displays on the iPhone. It took Apple nearly a decade for it to appear when Samsung kept mocking Apple about their smartphones being IPS without "true blacks".

What were the shortcoming of AMOLED? Burn-in... for the Android market it had the tolerance for such design flaws.

Apple waited to 2017 for it. Rare do you hear of any iPhone user complain about AMOLED burn-in unless they had a very niche use case.

BTW there's a rumor of the PS5 Pro as soon as next year. Same with a "Switch 2"/"Switch Pro".

Why would a "serious gamer" want a $2k M3 Max?

I can tell you are very passionate about video games so why not stick to the established players?

No one has unlimited lives. I'd just buy all 4 platforms and just play today.
 
Longplays said:
PS5 doesn't have a 99Wh(?) battery with reported 2hrs of battery life.

Not to mention the M2/M3 may be "good enough" for what Apple's priority use case are.

If you say a 10.3Tflops is a requirement then Apple is likely to delay it until a chip that complies with that requirement becomes available in the future.

Putting a future M3, M3 Pro, M3 Max or even M3 Ultra chip into a future iMac Pro may be better use of resources as they can charge north of $500.

Think of it as AMOLED displays on the iPhone. It took Apple nearly a decade for it to appear when Samsung kept mocking Apple about their smartphones being IPS without "true blacks".

What were the shortcoming of AMOLED? Burn-in... for the Android market it had the tolerance for such design flaws.

Apple waited to 2017 for it. Rare do you hear of any iPhone user complain about AMOLED burn-in unless they had a very niche use case.

BTW there's a rumor of the PS5 Pro as soon as next year. Same with a "Switch 2"/"Switch Pro".

Why would a "serious gamer" want a $2k M3 Max?

I can tell you are very passionate about video games so why not stick to the established players?

No one has unlimited lives. I'd just buy all 4 platforms and just play today.
Click to expand...
You asked me if an M3 is enough. I gave you calculations.
 
LiemTa said:
I hope it’ll be as open as MacOS and not walled like the Oculus where you can only install apps approved by The Zuck
Click to expand...
Great app idea. I always thought that would be awesome on your desktop. As you're grinding away in the office you have a reminder of how much money you're making in real time. Go for a coffee break and come back, made 20 dollars. Lolz.
 
senttoschool said:
Let's just go with Tflops for gaming performance because we don't have anything else better. Note that tflops does not always correlate to gaming performance.

M1 = 2.5 tflops
M2 = 3.6 tflops
PS5 = 10.3 tflops

Let's assume that M3 will have 40% better GPU performance. 3.6 * 1.4 = 5 tflops. That's still half of the PS5 while driving 3x more pixels than the PSVR.

So in order for a base M SoC to match a PS5 in gaming, we'll need M5, assuming 40% improvement for every generation. If you assume that it takes Apple 1.5 years to release a new SoC, then the Vision Pro could match the PS5 in gaming in about 3.5 years. In that time, we might be close to getting a PS6.

If the Vision Pro can house an M3 Pro, it could match the PS5 as soon as next year.

Perhaps Apple will making a Vision Ultra some day and put an M Pro SoC in there. Or maybe Apple will allow you to someday pair with a Macbook for gaming like how the PSVR pairs with a PS5.
Click to expand...
You are making the assumption that the PS5 10.5 tflops will be fully available through the wired USB-C connection to the headset (which will also have 1/4 the resolution and unlikely the same HDR fidelity). I think really to be able to compare it - and what type of games show up for using either of these devices we just have to wait... since right now we are just taking statistics from each device and painting the most rosy scenario depending on ones own bias. Not to mention the type of gaming done in VR or AR for that matter may differ than right now... but from the little I have seen so far the VR gaming itself has been less than 'AAA'.
 
bkkcanuck8 said:
You are making the assumption that the PS5 10.5 tflops will be fully available through the wired USB-C connection to the headset (which will also have 1/4 the resolution and unlikely the same HDR fidelity). I think really to be able to compare it - and what type of games show up for using either of these devices we just have to wait... since right now we are just taking statistics from each device and painting the most rosy scenario depending on ones own bias. Not to mention the type of gaming done in VR or AR for that matter may differ than right now... but from the little I have seen so far the VR gaming itself has been less than 'AAA'.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't it be?
 
Piggie said:
Knowing how much a strong section of enthusiasts love gaming in VR.
Anything from Flight Sims, BeatSabre/Fitness apps, Scary Virtual experience etc etc.

Realistically this needs to be via Steam VR.

Do you think Apple will block programs such as Virtual Desktop to deliberately stop they headset being used this way?
Naturally they want buyers to by all their content via their own app stores and scrape their 30% on all sales.

For those wanting a super clear headset for amazing gaming (apart from Field of View which I understand is OK as opposed to anything special for the Apple Headset) getting an Apple Vision Pro and simply using it for Steam VR Gaming could be "A Thing"

Unless Apple blocks this from working.

Do you think Apple would block this from working, or allow those in the community that love VR Gaming to enjoy this headset for that use case?
Click to expand...
Of course they are going to block it. That is why it is based on the iOS architecture--rather than MacOS architecture. That way they can block everything they want. No sideloading will be possible.
 
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LiemTa said:
I hope it’ll be as open as MacOS and not walled like the Oculus where you can only install apps approved by The Zuck
Click to expand...
It absolutely won't. Look at the developer information released so far. iPadOS/iOS will work mostly out of the box, Mac not at all.
 
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senttoschool said:
Why wouldn't it be?
Click to expand...
Most standard USB-C cables have fairly restrictive length before the bandwidth available for communications drops down. For full USB 3.1 the cables usually should be no longer than 1 meter. There are other technologies for longer ranges such as using fibre optic / USB-C transeivers built into the cable but then that also increases latency a bit. For things like DisplayPort cables they can be a bit longer (but still restricted before moving to fibre or dropping bandwidth) but the bulk of the cable itself is much thicker than your standard USB-C cables.
 
bkkcanuck8 said:
Most standard USB-C cables have fairly restrictive length before the bandwidth available for communications drops down. For full USB 3.1 the cables usually should be no longer than 1 meter. There are other technologies for longer ranges such as using fibre optic / USB-C transeivers built into the cable but then that also increases latency a bit. For things like DisplayPort cables they can be a bit longer (but still restricted before moving to fibre or dropping bandwidth) but the bulk of the cable itself is much thicker than your standard USB-C cables.
Click to expand...
But why won't the fully 10.3 tflops be available to the PSVR5?
 
senttoschool said:
But why won't the fully 10.3 tflops be available to the PSVR5?
Click to expand...
tflops (or terra [single precision] floating operations per second) is a GPU calculations metric when the Graphics cards were all about floating point calculations. So yes 10.3 tflops would be available to the PS5, but that does not mean it will translate into the same graphics fidelity remotely -- it all depends on bandwidth available to the device displaying it. It is one of the many reasons why there has been much more research push into untethered VR/AR designs...
 
bkkcanuck8 said:
tflops (or terra [single precision] floating operations per second) is a GPU calculations metric when the Graphics cards were all about floating point calculations. So yes 10.3 tflops would be available to the PS5, but that does not mean it will translate into the same graphics fidelity remotely -- it all depends on bandwidth available to the device displaying it. It is one of the many reasons why there has been much more research push into untethered VR/AR designs...
Click to expand...
Does the supplied PSVR2 cable not supply all the bandwidth necessary?
 
senttoschool said:
Does the supplied PSVR2 cable not supply all the bandwidth necessary?
Click to expand...
We will have to see if they do anything funky, but the specs say USB-C... and all my experience with those cables is that they have great bandwidth when very close but go down fast after that.
The Sony demos in the Feel a New Real | PS VR2 are well within the power of an M2 processor... colorful but not requiring great GPU power.
 
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