Wait for 13" rMBP?

[Simoquasimo]

I went to look at the new rMBP today to the store and it was awesome. The screen is made for photography. I don't know if I should get or wait for 13 inch version.

I have 13" 2010 MBP right now and I like the size of it alot, but I would like to have some more power for RAW photo editing and also for video editing. Do you think that 13 inch rMBP will have enough power or should I just go with 15 inch one.

 

[Auzburner]

Just go 15". There's a chance there will not be a 13" right away, also consider the 13" will never likely have the same amount of power as the 15" models because of the space differences caused by screen size. With the 15" they're able to implement a great discrete graphics card and monster battery. It's not likely the performance can be replicated in a 13" model for some time.

 

[maflynn]

The form factor of the 13" is great, very mobile, however for photogprahy I think a larger display, particularly a retina display would be better. I don't think apple will release a retina 13" MBP so soon after refreshing the line to Ivy Bridge. If want the retina display then get the 15" now instead of waiting.

Also the 15" MBP has a better GPU and has noted more screen real estate. I'm moving from a 13" MBP to a 15" precisely for the larger display. I feel I'm a bit cramped with the 13" MBP when using Lightroom and photoshop.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

It will be some time before they can fit what they need to in the 13" next gen case. People are saying October, however, I just don't think that's possible. How will they differentiate it from the MBA? It'll be hard to justify a $500 estimated price increase if all there is to offer is a retina display. They absolutely need to have a discrete graphics card or it's just a MacBook Air.

 

[Asherpotter]

To power that display long enough to meet current "standards" requires a very large battery, as mentioned earlier in this thread, and it may take Apple awhile to be clever with it. With the 15" selling so well, I doubt they're very motivated to expedite the process any either.

 

[stevelam]

even the 15" screen is kind of useless for photography since its still limited by the screen size, no matter how many pixels you throw at it. a 13" for photography would be even worse. i guess it'd be useful if you're actually editing on the go a lot.

 

[MagicBoy]

I don't think there will be one within 12 months, purely because the integrated GPU will not be powerful enough, and theres no room on the logic board for an nVidia 650M plus the additional cooling gubbins.

If there is one it'll use the 2013 Intel parts.

 

[beamer8912]

It will be some time before they can fit what they need to in the 13" next gen case. People are saying October, however, I just don't think that's possible. How will they differentiate it from the MBA? It'll be hard to justify a $500 estimated price increase if all there is to offer is a retina display. They absolutely need to have a discrete graphics card or it's just a MacBook Air.

Ports? Better Processors? Larger base storage?

The 15" retina is a better deal than a spec'd out 15" MBP. I have a feeling it'd be the same way with the 13". 13" MBA w/ 256GB storage and 8GB RAM is $1600. Could easily offer a 13" retina for the same price or less just like they do with the 15".

 

[fisherking]

remember, everything here is opinion, and speculation. i remember when i bought my previous macbook (2008), and firewire was gone. the mac community argued it would never be back, because "there was no room on the logic board for it in the new 13" macbook pros".

next revision had firewire 800.

apple has a way of making the things happen they want to make happen. and they keep moving forward.

so...(in my humble opinion/speculation), a 13" rmbp cannot be TOO far off...

 

[stevelam]

Ports? Better Processors? Larger base storage?

The 15" retina is a better deal than a spec'd out 15" MBP. I have a feeling it'd be the same way with the 13". 13" MBA w/ 256GB storage and 8GB RAM is $1600. Could easily offer a 13" retina for the same price or less just like they do with the 15".

spec-wise matching prices it seems like the better deal, but don't forget the massive amount of gpu/cpu resources the retina display screen requires to actually run. even then it still doesn't run as smoothly as older macs which is kind of a shame.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Ports? Better Processors? Larger base storage?

The 15" retina is a better deal than a spec'd out 15" MBP. I have a feeling it'd be the same way with the 13". 13" MBA w/ 256GB storage and 8GB RAM is $1600. Could easily offer a 13" retina for the same price or less just like they do with the 15".

You're correct, they could do it like that. While many consumers don't care or are ignorant to the fact, it is hard to justify spending $1500-$1700 on a next-generation device that is using integrated graphics. The MacBookAir can already obtain a dual core i7. They could put a quad core i7 in the 13" rMPB, but then how does that differentiate it from the 15" rMBP? That's always been one of the ways apple differentiates the 13" and 15". Storage problems will be a thing of the past in a year or two when SSD's become more mainstream.

I just think that if they do make a 13" rMPB, many of us will be underwhelmed. It needs to have a discrete graphics card in my honest opinion. It doesn't need to be the same as the 15", but it does need to be there. Apple really has themselves in a pickle trying to find value in a 13" rMBP versus a cheaper MBA.

 

[beamer8912]

spec-wise matching prices it seems like the better deal, but don't forget the massive amount of gpu/cpu resources the retina display screen requires to actually run. even then it still doesn't run as smoothly as older macs which is kind of a shame.

It's true, the lag in Lion is substantial. However, I think part of the reason the 13" wasn't introduced before ML was because of this lag.

ML fixes a lot of it, and I could see how a 13" (possibly w/o a dedicated GPU) would be crippled in Lion.

Here's hoping the August/October date is true.

 

[Boe11]

I'd say just snag the 15". I also enjoy the 13" form factor, but to be honest, I'm not all that convinced that there will be a 13" rMBP prior to haswell, for the following reasons.

The 15" retina display is great but isn't without flaws. There is still some lag when doing certain tasks and as anandtech pointed out, that's just because we don't have the hardware available yet to execute this technology fluidly.

So based on that information, I can't imagine Apple putting out a 13" unit with a retina display(at least at a comparable PPI) that has a dual core CPU and integrated graphics.

Whether or not they can get a quad and/or dedicated GPU in the smaller chassis of the 13" is anyone's guess, but at this point, I don't see a lot of reasons to be optimistic about that.

 

[beamer8912]

You're correct, they could do it like that. While many consumers don't care or are ignorant to the fact, it is hard to justify spending $1500-$1700 on a next-generation device that is using integrated graphics. The MacBookAir can already obtain a dual core i7. They could put a quad core i7 in the 13" rMPB, but then how does that differentiate it from the 15" rMBP? That's always been one of the ways apple differentiates the 13" and 15". Storage problems will be a thing of the past in a year or two when SSD's become more mainstream.

I just think that if they do make a 13" rMPB, many of us will be underwhelmed. It needs to have a discrete graphics card in my honest opinion. It doesn't need to be the same as the 15", but it does need to be there. Apple really has themselves in a pickle trying to find value in a 13" rMBP versus a cheaper MBA.

If you toss in the dual core i7 into a MBA, now you're at $1700 for a computer w/o dedicated graphics, just like you said.

I guess I'm having trouble seeing your point. A MBA with the specs of a hypothetical 13" rMBP costs $1600-1700. They'd be more or less the same price, give or take $100.

The difference would be the screen, the ports and the size/weight just like the difference between the 15" MBP and the 15" rMBP. Those also share the same processors.

To differentiate the 13" from the 15", size, dedicated graphics and dual vs quad processors.

 

[boomboom2]

Yeah, I'm waiting until next year's crop of retina macbooks!

 

[surjavarman]

RMBA11 will never happen since there is no space for the batteries

RMBA13 will never happen since there is no space for the batteries

RMBP13 will not happen because one would need to fit in a quad core i7 CPU and a powerful GPU to power that screen. This is going to exceed the thermal envelope of a 13" MBP.

RMBP17 will never happen since they cancelled that line.

 

[Simoquasimo]

Thanks for all the answers! I think I'll go with 15 inch rMBP because then I can do more editing on the go. Right now I do almost all the editing at home with external monitor.

And as said, I can't know if 13" is really coming this year at all

 

[mnsportsgeek]

If you toss in the dual core i7 into a MBA, now you're at $1700 for a computer w/o dedicated graphics, just like you said.

I guess I'm having trouble seeing your point. A MBA with the specs of a hypothetical 13" rMBP costs $1600-1700. They'd be more or less the same price, give or take $100.

The difference would be the screen, the ports and the size/weight just like the difference between the 15" MBP and the 15" rMBP. Those also share the same processors.

To differentiate the 13" from the 15", size, dedicated graphics and dual vs quad processors.

The difference between the 15" and 13" is that the 13" will soon be overcrowded. There are too many 13" offerings, and the 13" rMPB and the 13" Air will be nearly identical. Apple has always prided themselves on making the decision easy.

Right now, there is a 15" rMPB and 15" MPB. Soon, there will be a 13" Air, 13" MBP, and 13" rMPB.

Even if they get rid of the legacy MBP, there is still a difficult decision to make between the 13" Air and the 13" rMPB. There is not enough differentiation between the MacBook Air and the speculated 13" rMPB. That's all I'm saying. The rMPB might have an extra USB port... big deal. The Air will be smaller. They're still both going to have a base configuration of a dual core i5 like the current MBA and legacy MBP (As you say, the 15" MBP and 15" rMPB have the same processor). They're both going to have SSD. The battery life will be equivalent. The ONLY negligible difference will be the retina display. That's not enough to warrant a new generation of computing.

 

[stevelam]

Thanks for all the answers! I think I'll go with 15 inch rMBP because then I can do more editing on the go. Right now I do almost all the editing at home with external monitor.

And as said, I can't know if 13" is really coming this year at all

take note that you won't be able to edit anything until photoshop is actually updated. that could be more than 6 months from now (unless you only use aperture or something)

 

[Boe11]

RMBA11 will never happen since there is no space for the batteries

RMBA13 will never happen since there is no space for the batteries

RMBP13 will not happen because one would need to fit in a quad core i7 CPU and a powerful GPU to power that screen. This is going to exceed the thermal envelope of a 13" MBP.

RMBP17 will never happen since they cancelled that line.

I think you're wrong. I'd wager that every (at least portable) Mac will have a retina display within 2 years time.

 

[beamer8912]

The difference between the 15" and 13" is that the 13" will soon be overcrowded. There are too many 13" offerings, and the 13" rMPB and the 13" Air will be nearly identical. Apple has always prided themselves on making the decision easy.

Right now, there is a 15" rMPB and 15" MPB. Soon, there will be a 13" Air, 13" MBP, and 13" rMPB.

Even if they get rid of the legacy MBP, there is still a difficult decision to make between the 13" Air and the 13" rMPB. There is not enough differentiation between the MacBook Air and the speculated 13" rMPB. That's all I'm saying. The rMPB might have an extra USB port... big deal. The Air will be smaller. They're still both going to have a base configuration of a dual core i5 like the current MBA and legacy MBP (As you say, the 15" MBP and 15" rMPB have the same processor). They're both going to have SSD. The battery life will be equivalent. The ONLY negligible difference will be the retina display. That's not enough to warrant a new generation of computing.

Extra Thunderbolt and HDMI too.

I think the one point you're missing is that the MBA would never be capable of a retina display, not enough room for a battery.

I agree it would be crowded, and would make the 13" MBP useless but the only reason Apple kept the MBP's around was because of the optical drive. We all know those are going to be dropped next year. I believe the market for retina is greater than the market that still wants an optical drive. If true, Apple would know this, and wouldn't have picked the optical drive over the retina if they had to pick between the two.

As for differentiating the 13" MBA and 13" rMBP it is going to come down to the screen. We're not sure if Apple will drop the 13" MBA entirely, or keep it around for ultimate portability, considering how heavy the rMBP is. Apple could also introduce a dedicated graphics chip, or use a quad-core in a retina 13" like you said.

I realize Apple has never been one to clutter their line-up, however considering the confusion at the 15" level and that it'd only be for <12 months I don't see why not to introduce a 13" retina. It would certainly tap into that market of new college students who want retina but can't afford $2k+.

edit: Essentially it comes down to the fact that this is a transition year and Apple is stepping on its own toes. We see that with both the 13" and 15" Macs. The line-up doesn't make sense, and it won't remain this way long. But until then, why not tap into the market for 13" retina users? They're clearly there.

 

[yanksrock100]

RMBA11 will never happen since there is no space for the batteries

RMBA13 will never happen since there is no space for the batteries

RMBP13 will not happen because one would need to fit in a quad core i7 CPU and a powerful GPU to power that screen. This is going to exceed the thermal envelope of a 13" MBP.

RMBP17 will never happen since they cancelled that line.

I agree with all, except the 13 MBP. Apple will finish their line of the next generation MacBook Pro. I hope this year!

 

[57004]

I don't think there will be one within 12 months, purely because the integrated GPU will not be powerful enough, and theres no room on the logic board for an nVidia 650M plus the additional cooling gubbins.

Why is the integrated HD4000 GPU not powerful enough? The current 15" rMBP also uses it when it's in battery saving mode. It works fine when forced to use the HD4000 with gfxCardStatus (see this post and others like it). And the 13" will most likely be even lower in resolution (1280x800x2 so 2560x1600). That's the same in width as a 27" thunderbolt display (2560x1440).

Don't forget that even the 11" Air can drive a 27" display plus its own. The 13" pro can too. Together that's more pixels than the 13" retina pro will have.

Edit: In terms of the original question: If you can afford a 15", go for it now..

I'm waiting for the 13" retina myself, but I'm sure it will be more of a compromise: Probably no dedicated GPU, no quad core (there is only 1 quad core 35W in the Ivy Bridge lineup, I bet that even if they offer it, it will be a premium high-end option).

I do hope they'll keep the 2 TB + HDMI option, that would really help.

 

[striker33]

If ASUS can fit a discrete GPU in a 13" ultrabook, surely Apple can fit it into a 13" MBP?

Either way, I personally think the 13" Pro will be discontinued either next year or the year after. When you have the 13" MBA sitting there with a better screen and specs, aside from raw CPU power, its just a pointless notebook for most of Apple's consumers. Cant imagine it selling that well at all.

It would also make sense if Apple were to keep the 15" as the only 'Pro' model, making the Air the consumer model indefinitely.

 

[BlueOcean]

For the OP - go with 15 if you need it now. Bigger screen is always nicer and it weighs less than a 13" Pro so it makes sense.

To go along with the speculation in the rest of the thread, I'd agree that the simplicity of choice is what Apple will eventually go for. Whether this is close to what they'll do, I don't know but what I would do is this:

3 models:

1. MacBook Air. 11" as it is now.
2. MacBook. 13" retina display, a merging of the MBP and MBA. Probably no dGPU, but Haswell/Broadwell promises substantial improvements to integrated graphics anyway so it probably alleviates the need somewhat.
3. MacBook Pro. 15" retina as it currently is.

3 brands, each brand is associated with a size so that people won't need to talk about inches any more, just whether it's an Air, a Pro or a regular MacBook.