Want to purchase new iMac 5k

[Cletus989]

I want to buy an new 5k iMac and later replace the hd to ssd. I don't want to pay $1000 for apples 1tb ssd. I would rather just buy one for 350 and put it in myself. Is it possible to replace part of the fusion drive? So that I would have 128gb pcie ssd and 1tb sata ssd

Option 1) The new standard sata 1tb drive and just replace it with 1tb ssd

Option 2) Refurbished 1tb fusion drive (leaving the 128gb pcie ssd and replacing the sata hd to sdd)
Refurbished 27-inch iMac 3.5GHz Quad-core Intel Core i5 with Retina display

Option 3) Does this 256gb pcie ssd have the cables to hookup a sata ssd? probably not

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/G...z-quad-core-intel-core-i5-with-retina-display

 

[rkaufmann87]

I want to buy an new 5k iMac and later replace the hd to ssd. I don't want to pay $1000 for apples 1tb ssd. I would rather just buy one for 350 and put it in myself. Is it possible to replace part of the fusion drive? So that I would have 128gb pcie ssd and 1tb sata ssd

Option 1) The new standard sata 1tb drive and just replace it with 1tb ssd

Option 2) Refurbished 1tb fusion drive (leaving the 128gb pcie ssd and replacing the sata hd to sdd)
Refurbished 27-inch iMac 3.5GHz Quad-core Intel Core i5 with Retina display

Option 3) Does this 256gb pcie ssd have the cables to hookup a sata ssd? probably not

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/G...z-quad-core-intel-core-i5-with-retina-display

You know that if you attempt to take that route you will not have a warranty don't you? If you can't afford a 1TB SSD right now, get a 256SSD and get external storage. No downside and all upside. Either that or save up until you can afford what you really want.

 

[Cletus989]

You know that if you attempt to take that route you will not have a warranty don't you? If you can't afford a 1TB SSD right now, get a 256SSD and get external storage. No downside and all upside. Either that or save up until you can afford what you really want.

I know. I can afford it but its a waste of $650

 

[MacNerd1239]

I personally am just going to wait for the Skylake 5k, get a 256 or 512 internal SSD and then get a TB3 Enclosure when those exist and throw an SSD in there. The 512 isn't as ridiculously priced.

 

[redheeler]

I agree with the post above, 256 GB internal PCIe SSD + 1 TB external Thunderbolt SSD is a good way to go if you don't want to pay Apple's price for a 1 TB SSD.

 

[bladerunner2000]

If you decide to go with the Core i7, just remember that its a 4790k processor and due to the really bad air flow inside the iMac, you're going to hit 100c temperature at load which will force the CPU to throttle and reduce speed from 5-15%.

Kind of a scam for Apple to advertise it as such. Here's proof (skip to the 2:30 minute mark)

As for the upgrade/disassembly of the iMac, here's a quick video... and it doesn't look easy:

 

[redheeler]

If you decide to go with the Core i7, just remember that its a 4790k processor and due to the really bad air flow inside the iMac, you're going to hit 100c temperature at load which will force the CPU to throttle and reduce speed from 5-15%.

Kind of a scam for Apple to advertise it as such. Here's proof (skip to the 2:30 minute mark)

That's a bit sad (it would be nice if the i7 Retina iMac had better cooling), but it's completely irrelevant to this thread since the OP never even mentioned the i7.

As for the upgrade/disassembly of the iMac, here's a quick video... and it doesn't look easy:

iFixit has an excellent guide on hard drive replacement in the Retina iMac, although going with an external Thunderbolt SSD like suggested above would be the simplest and safest solution.

 

[MacNerd1239]

If you decide to go with the Core i7, just remember that its a 4790k processor and due to the really bad air flow inside the iMac, you're going to hit 100c temperature at load which will force the CPU to throttle and reduce speed from 5-15%.

Kind of a scam for Apple to advertise it as such. Here's proof (skip to the 2:30 minute mark)

As for the upgrade/disassembly of the iMac, here's a quick video... and it doesn't look easy:

This really isn't true in most scenarios in OS X, especially with newer updates. See benchmarks, videos, forums, etc. pretty much everywhere besides this video.

 

[bladerunner2000]

This really isn't true in most scenarios in OS X, especially with newer updates. See benchmarks, videos, forums, etc. pretty much everywhere besides this video.

It's pretty much true, Linus doesn't skew the facts.

 

[MacNerd1239]

One test in one scenario on another OS during an initial release isn't "fact." This doesn't happen in OS X.

 

[bladerunner2000]

One test in one scenario on another OS during an initial release isn't "fact." This doesn't happen in OS X.

Of course it happens in OS X, LOL. You think Windows somehow magically makes the temperatures higher than what the CPU is capable of emitting? You put the 4790k through any stress test and you'll get the same results, ie; encoding video via handbrake.

There's plenty of people complaining about the heat and noise from the fans in the iMac. The airflow in it is really bad in it.

Why else would it downclock? Because of the heat.

 

[TechZeke]

Of course it happens in OS X, LOL. You think Windows somehow magically makes the temperatures higher than what the CPU is capable of emitting? You put the 4790k through any stress test and you'll get the same results, ie; encoding video via handbrake.

There's plenty of people complaining about the heat and noise from the fans in the iMac. The airflow in it is really bad in it.

Why else would it downclock? Because of the heat.

Can there be a conversation about the iMac 5k without you posting the same LinusTechTips video about the 5k iMac's heat and performance? We get it. Go enjoy your hackintosh; not every discussion has to be about the heat of the iMac 5k.

 

[bladerunner2000]

Can there be a conversation about the iMac 5k without you posting the same LinusTechTips video about the 5k iMac's heat and performance? We get it. Go enjoy your hackintosh; not every discussion has to be about the heat of the iMac 5k.

I'm sorry, I didn't know you were the OP.

 

[aliensporebomb]

If you decide to go with the Core i7, just remember that its a 4790k processor and due to the really bad air flow inside the iMac, you're going to hit 100c temperature at load which will force the CPU to throttle and reduce speed from 5-15%.

Kind of a scam for Apple to advertise it as such. Here's proof (skip to the 2:30 minute mark)

As for the upgrade/disassembly of the iMac, here's a quick video... and it doesn't look easy:

Interesting videos - except not all of us are doing gaming on the PC side - I'm running X-Plane 10 and Elite Dangerous for the most part on the Mac side. I normally use my Macs are part of my music studio but I do like to game on occasion and I also do take part in number crunching with BOINC/Seti @ Home.

I'm running one of the i7 machines with the 290 (not the 295) - I find that both X-Plane and Elite Dangerous (which I'm running at 4k for both).

The point is: the CPU never gets hot enough while gaming for the cpu to throttle.

I'm using iStat menus with the fans set on high in an air conditioned house (but the room has my wife's windows laptop and i7 2009 mac and my own machine and multiple monitors and my music studio gear and windows laptop).

Generally the room is noticeably warmer than every other room in the house due to all the tech.

Well, what about music? How does that tax the 4790x? I do big music productions. Lots of overdubs and layers. Think of soundtrack type music and yeah I do that but I also do rock stuff. The music tends to have lots of tracks and some of these tunes are 7-15 minutes long but the machine doesn't really break a sweat like my old i7 once did.

Okay so where would throttling most likely to happen?

The only time temperatures get to that "worryingly high" level is the processor cores when running something like Boinc/Seti.

Sure the machine might say "I'm humming along at 50c just fine" but if you look at the actual processor core temperature according to istat menus I'm seeing things in the low to mid 90s which is cause for:

"Hey, Apple, seriously, only one fan in this thing and the vent at the top is gone like on the old ones from 2009 and the vent is at the bottom and heat rises due to, you know, science and you really expect this to last long enough to have applecare cover it should it burn up?"

Lets just say I hope they don't try to make the darned things thinner. I'll be posting on the long term reliability of this as time goes by. It was a gift so I guess I gotta dig it.

However, when I run boinc/seti the display usually is set to blank and when I wake it up right after the temps are noticeably lower than if the screen would be on. I don't number crunch seti stuff while using the cpu for music or games or videos or web surfing.

 

[olemed]

I personally am just going to wait for the Skylake 5k, get a 256 or 512 internal SSD and then get a TB3 Enclosure when those exist and throw an SSD in there. The 512 isn't as ridiculously priced.

When is Skylake projected to be out? I think only the 21" iMacs will go retina this fall with it but I think the 27" will be early next year.

 

[MacNerd1239]

When is Skylake projected to be out? I think only the 21" iMacs will go retina this fall with it but I think the 27" will be early next year.

Allegedly desktop chips are coming at Gamescon at the start of August. I'm expecting a "Late 2015" refresh of the whole lineup with the new chipset, probably either as a "One More Thing" for the iPhone event or just a silent refresh in October.

 

[aliensporebomb]

As an update I've been reading a whole series of posts and I found quite a lot of threads from pc overclockers running the 4790x finding the temperatures the units are generating might not be 100% accurate - they were going back and forth on safe temperatures and also what the Intel spec was before throttling occurred. Most of the below pertains to windows users but it's interesting if you're on the Mac side - I typically use iStat menus to monitor temperatures on the Mac OS side.

I also wanted to understand why this chip seemed to be so much hotter than previous generations of the i7. If you want to go deep down the rabbit hole about processor design and temperatures and such you can read this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

and:

http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-033342.htm

and:

Thread at Intel about troubleshooting 4790k overheating - just for informational purposes:
http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-033342.htm

Pertinent info regarding CPU temps on the 4790x:

from http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2210400/4790k-temperatures.html

-Case Temperature (or TCase) is the maximum temperature allowed at the processor Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS).

-Intel specs for TCase is 74.04 degrees celcius at the IHS - the cores can go to about 90c before throttling.

-89C junction temperature is fine. 89C IHS temperature on the other hand is not since unless the CPU is idle, the junction temperature will be well over 105C.

When one of the users asked how to determine the temperature of the IHS to try to keep it below 72c for his build, and asked which temperature sensor the chip was producing was from the IHS he got an interesting answer:

The CPU does not have an actual sensor for package temperature. That value is estimated based on core temperatures, VRM load and the CPU's thermal model. In other words: it cannot be trusted.

In other words, the actual temperatures being generated are not actually produced by a sensor but inferred based on data from several other sensors and are approximated.

The temperatures regarding the GPU are high in my opinion but since we're talking about a laptop GPU think about it - a laptop generally has a much smaller enclosed space with higher overall temperatures. The 27" mac has more internal volume to dissippate that heat and most laptops aren't aluminum but plastic.

Another thread here talks about the approximated temperatures not necessarily being correct:
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2539368/4790k-temperatures.html

Do NOT run any versions of Prime95 later than 26.6. Here's why:

Core i 2nd, 3rd and 4th Generation CPU's have AVX (Advanced Vector Extension) instruction sets. Recent versions of Prime95, such as 28.5, run AVX code on the Floating Point Unit (FPU) math coprocessor, which produces unrealistically high temperatures. The FPU test in the software utility AIDA64 shows the same results.

Prime95 v26.6 produces temperatures on 3rd and 4th Generation processors more consistent with 2nd Generation, which also have AVX instructions, but do not suffer from thermal extremes due to having a soldered Integrated Heat Spreader and a 35% larger Die.

Please downloadPrime95 version 26.6 - http://windows-downloads-center.blogspot.com/2011/04/pr...

Run only Small FFT’s for 10 minutes.

Use only Real Temp to measure your Core temperatures, as it was designed specifically for Intel processors: Real Temp - http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2089/real-temp-3-7...

Your Core temperatures will test 10 to 20C lower with v26.6 than with v28.5.

So, while I would say the temperatures we get shown are reasonably accurate in the case of some of them they are approximated based on the output of several things and in other cases high temps can be caused by running a particular type of math that heavily hits the FPU in a particular way.

Again I'll be watching this machine closely over the next 3 years. It sure seems that lots of pc builders feel the default Intel specced cooler for this chips is just not adequate in any way and the iMac case design doesn't really help. Maybe Apple will be forced to address this at some point.

 

[rowdy&proudy]

Allegedly desktop chips are coming at Gamescon at the start of August. I'm expecting a "Late 2015" refresh of the whole lineup with the new chipset, probably either as a "One More Thing" for the iPhone event or just a silent refresh in October.

So in general terms, if I am in need of a desktop, should I just be looking for the best bang for my buck in the Refurb'd iMac category? I don't want to get what I think is a top o' the line iMac 5k only in the next few days, only to find out that the newest iMac is going to be released in a month or two. Does anyone have any general estimate of when they expect another update to the iMac (either 21" or 27") to be coming down the pipe? I am willing to wait, but if its going to be more than a month or so I'd like to purchase the best quality refurb of one of the latest iMac's (either 21" or 27") for the cheapest price I can possibly find. That way I will be able to patiently bide my time with it. And then when the time comes, I can go all out on the latest & greatest iMac. And then the refurb can be used for another employee at my office. Any thoughts? I am a newbie so (A) I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong place. & (B) I am open to any and all advice or suggestions... Best to assume I know very little haha. Because that is pretty much the truth.

 

[TechZeke]

So in general terms, if I am in need of a desktop, should I just be looking for the best bang for my buck in the Refurb'd iMac category? I don't want to get what I think is a top o' the line iMac 5k only in the next few days, only to find out that the newest iMac is going to be released in a month or two. Does anyone have any general estimate of when they expect another update to the iMac (either 21" or 27") to be coming down the pipe? I am willing to wait, but if its going to be more than a month or so I'd like to purchase the best quality refurb of one of the latest iMac's (either 21" or 27") for the cheapest price I can possibly find. That way I will be able to patiently bide my time with it. And then when the time comes, I can go all out on the latest & greatest iMac. And then the refurb can be used for another employee at my office. Any thoughts? I am a newbie so (A) I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong place. & (B) I am open to any and all advice or suggestions... Best to assume I know very little haha. Because that is pretty much the truth.

The code in El Capitan has hinted at a 4k 21.5" iMac, along with new M300 series GPUs. My guess is that 27" 5K iMac having a Late 2015 refresh to coincide with the release of the new 4K iMac, which will jump straight to Broadwell, El Capitan, and M300 GPUs. I'd at least wait until the October Keynote. I'm buying the 2nd Gen 5K iMac regardless; especially since I pay for all my electronics with cash.

 

[rowdy&proudy]

The code in El Capitan has hinted at a 4k 21.5" iMac, along with new M300 series GPUs. My guess is that 27" 5K iMac having a Late 2015 refresh to coincide with the release of the new 4K iMac, which will jump straight to Broadwell, El Capitan, and M300 GPUs. I'd at least wait until the October Keynote. I'm buying the 2nd Gen 5K iMac regardless; especially since I pay for all my electronics with cash.

Thanks for the info. I think you're right so I'll hold off on getting the current 5k iMac... Now, does anyone know of any reliable, cheap sources for good quality refurbs. I'd be very interested in a refurb iMac that is either the latest version or close to it. Preferably the 27", but my number one criteria is price, so 21" or 27" I just want to get the most bang for my buck for now and then get something new after the Keynote in October.

 

[OneZweiThree]

Has Apple actually ever releases new macs during the runtime of the back2school promo? Because B2S runs until mid September and I could see the iPhone keynote happening during This time (with possibly updated macs).

 

[Liffey]

The code in El Capitan has hinted at a 4k 21.5" iMac, along with new M300 series GPUs. My guess is that 27" 5K iMac having a Late 2015 refresh to coincide with the release of the new 4K iMac, which will jump straight to Broadwell, El Capitan, and M300 GPUs. I'd at least wait until the October Keynote. I'm buying the 2nd Gen 5K iMac regardless; especially since I pay for all my electronics with cash.

Skylake seems more likely at this point.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Has Apple actually ever releases new macs during the runtime of the back2school promo? Because B2S runs until mid September and I could see the iPhone keynote happening during This time (with possibly updated macs).

No they use it to sell older spec stuff (to students who really don't bneed cutting edge in general) before the new comes in.