Weird twist to eyestrain issues on Mac

[darkus]

Ive been using a variety of MacOS devices with the same exact monitor (CCFL if you can believe it) for many years now. Never really had eye strain with the monitor, regardless of the computer I would plug into it.

All those devices are running on Monterey

HOWEVER, I just got a Studio which is on Sonoma.

I plugged it in (and yes its pretty fast!) but suddenly Im getting eye strain. From my understanding of eyestrain, people have chalked it up to a variety of reasons, LED, PWM, etc.. but I'm not sure that is entirely true.

Im starting to wonder if eyestrain is simply due to the operating system rather than display technology?

Im using the same exact monitor plugged into two different Macs. Ive cloned the Macs, so aside from the MacOS version, they are identical, the wallpapers are identical, the Display settings and color profile is the same (copied directly over). The apps im using are identical. The files im editing are identical.

The only difference I can think of is that one is an M2 silicon, using MacOS Sonoma and connected via USBC to DP, all the others are on Monterey connected through DP.

Im wondering if all this eyestrain is actually something to do with Sonoma, and the way its handing colors or rendering or something else.

Has anyone noticed anything like this? Its so strange but im looking at this Mac Studio as a really expensive paperweight right now...

 

[gilby101]

Might help if we knew which monitor, what display settings and what colour profile.

Is that a 2023 Studio? Or 2022? If 2022, you could run Monterey. But my guess is that it something to do with hardware or display settings.

Ive cloned the Macs

What do you mean by "clone"? Do you mean a clean install and then Migration Assistant transferring settings as well as files? What hardware was the other Mac?

 

[darkus]

Might help if we knew which monitor, what display settings and what colour profile.

Is that a 2023 Studio? Or 2022? If 2022, you could run Monterey. But my guess is that it something to do with hardware or display settings.


What do you mean by "clone"? Do you mean a clean install and then Migration Assistant transferring settings as well as files? What hardware was the other Mac?

The monitor is an NEC 24" Multisync. The studio is an M2 Ultra 2023. Im going to plug my ACD back up into these and just see what happens and see if the results are the same

Can the M2 Studio run Monterey? That would be a neat experiment to try and see if the output really is back to the way it is on my other Macs. But it's probably not viable long term since I need some of the newer version software that is only available on Sonoma.

By "clone" I mean yes basically copy all settings and keys and files over from the old Mac to the new one. I have a few other Macs on Monterey, a mix of Mac Pro and MacBook Pro.

One thing I did was change the AppleFontSmoothing (set to 1) on the Studio and it does seem to help, but you can see how its a little different from Monterey.

Where Im noticing the problem is on white screens, so basically Safari surfing the web is where it really `hurts`. Ive been playing with the old school 'turn the brightness down on the monitor' and that also helps maybe?

Weird right?

(On a side note, not that I think it is part of this issue, the Studio can't actually wake the monitor from Sleep. I have to turn the monitor off and then back on and then it will recognize the signal. That might be known Studio vs Sonoma issue)

 

[Fishrrman]

What is the RESOLUTION of the NEC display?

What resolution are you running it at (check the "Displays" setting).

What MIGHT be happening (just a guess):
The old NEC is probably not a 4k display (is it?).
The newer versions of the Mac OS seem to designed to work best with high resolution displays (4k or 5k) that can operate in "HiDPI" mode in which pixels are doubled in height and width.

Thus, a "4k" display looks best running at "looks like 1080p", and a 5k display will look good running at "looks like 1440p".

BUT... Although Apple used to include font-smoothing routines to improve text and clarity on NON-HiDIP displays, they may not be doing so any more.

Look at this page (I realize it's for an older version of the OS):

How to Fix Blurry Fonts on macOS Mojave (With Subpixel Antialiasing)

Apple's macOS Mojave disables subpixel antialiasing, also known as font smoothing, by default.

www.howtogeek.com

You can try "the fixes" offered on this page to see if it helps.
(that's IF they still work, not sure).

Final thought:
It might be time for a new 4k display.
I'd recommend a 27" panel, with 4k resolution.
Many are available.

 

[darkus]

What is the RESOLUTION of the NEC display?

What resolution are you running it at (check the "Displays" setting).

What MIGHT be happening (just a guess):
The old NEC is probably not a 4k display (is it?).
The newer versions of the Mac OS seem to designed to work best with high resolution displays (4k or 5k) that can operate in "HiDPI" mode in which pixels are doubled in height and width.

Thus, a "4k" display looks best running at "looks like 1080p", and a 5k display will look good running at "looks like 1440p".

BUT... Although Apple used to include font-smoothing routines to improve text and clarity on NON-HiDIP displays, they may not be doing so any more.

Look at this page (I realize it's for an older version of the OS):

How to Fix Blurry Fonts on macOS Mojave (With Subpixel Antialiasing)

Apple's macOS Mojave disables subpixel antialiasing, also known as font smoothing, by default.

www.howtogeek.com

You can try "the fixes" offered on this page to see if it helps.
(that's IF they still work, not sure).

Final thought:
It might be time for a new 4k display.
I'd recommend a 27" panel, with 4k resolution.
Many are available.

What your saying makes a whole lot of sense.

Im running at 1920x1200, so 4k is a loss in productivity real estate for me (assuming use of double density). But I do like your thinking: I might try to get a studio display or some kind of 5k display and see if there's a difference. I love my trusty display, but its worth a shot.

Thanks for the info, it was super helpful! Never knew about the sub pixel aliasing concept...

 

[darkus]

Another interesting twist, and adds to what @Fishrrman suggests above.

I just bought a used M1 Ultra 16" MBP that happens to still be on Monterey. So it has a super crisp Retina display, but still on the older MacOS.

Guess what, no (0) eye strain problems. It feels very relaxing on the eyes. The display is so crisp and awesome. This is just weird.

Now Im doubly sure this is a problem introduced after Monterey, certainly in Sonoma. AND the problem isn't necessarily tied to Apple Silicon chips. Its tied to the OS itself. That gives some hope it can be 'fixed' one day, assuming its seen as a problem and not a "feature".

 

[Fishrrman]

Replace the NEC with a 27" 4k display.
You'll "notice the difference" right away.

 

[gilby101]

Im running at 1920x1200, so 4k is a loss in productivity real estate for me (assuming use of double density). But I do like your thinking: I might try to get a studio display or some kind of 5k display and see if there's a difference. I love my trusty display, but its worth a shot.

Such a resolution is really bad on a modern Mac. Not surprised you have eye problems - particularly scrolling web pages.

Replace the NEC with a 27" 4k display.

Or, depending on budget, a 27" 5k - best for clarity, etc.

You'll "notice the difference" right away.

Certainly will!

 

[siksik6]

I have exactly the same problem but with Sonoma to Sequoia.

M1 Air plugged into a HP Omen 27q at WQHD which is absolutely comfortable on Sonoma. Sequoia ruins me. Tried every scaling setting and option known to mankind and can't fix it. Apple broke something!