What Apple should learn from HP

[thetexan]

Palm's always been pretty cozy with the homebrew community, and now, with a donation to WebOS Internals, HP's showing that they've got love for hackers, too. Just in time for the lover's holiday, HP announced plans to donate a ProLiant DL385 server to the independent developer's resource -- a gift worth $10,000 and packing 32GB of RAM and 8TB disk space. Considering all the new devices we saw at the webOS event this week, the added capacity comes at just the right time. We always thought diamonds were a nice gesture, but we suppose, in this case anyway, nothing says I love you like an HP ProLiant.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/hp-donates-server-to-webos-internals-makes-homebrew-its-boo/

Sure, it's not that big of a purchase, but WebOS Internals's is Palm's version of Cydia. This would be similar to Apple donating some hardware to Cydia. What's more interesting though is the symbolic nature of the donation. It means HP will not fight those who want to modify the devices beyond their intended factory use.

Apple really should open up a little. Apple could squash a lot of criticism if they just allowed you to install applications outside of the iTunes universe. In Android you just have to go into a section of the settings and check a box labeled "Allow Installation of 3rd party applications from untrusted sources" and you're in business. It'd cost Apple nothing and a warning disclaimer absolves them of all responsibility.

 

[scaredpoet]

Apple really should open up a little.

Maybe HP should first focus on WebOS' 1.3% market share, before we ponder what that platform can teach anyone, other than how not to succeed.

 

[rdowns]

Seriously? I'm not trying to flame you but who cares about this other than a very small minority of iDevice users. Very small.

And the cynic in me says HP did this because they're worried they won't be able to attract enough "legit" developers to their platform.

 

[Michael CM1]

Maybe HP should first focus on WebOS' 1.3% market share, before we ponder what that platform can teach anyone, other than how not to succeed.

Seriously. Palm threw the WebOS name out there as if it was something most people cared about. Nobody does. The vast majority of smart phones have iOS, Android or whatever BlackBerry uses (Symbian?).

 

[mightygitis]

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I firmly disagree. Allowing every idiot who thinks they know how to program is one of the reasons I stay far away from things like that. It runs much better when there is oversight to make sure the programming runs correctly and is not buggy or a virus.

HP sucks anyway.

 

[JD914]

Apple is an oppressive dictatorship and will go to any cost to maintain complete control of thier products. They even have Gestapo like security to deal with employees that are suspected of leaking information.

 

[goobot]

i dont think apple cared till cracked apps came along

 

[kdarling]

Seriously? I'm not trying to flame you but who cares about this other than a very small minority of iDevice users. Very small.

The 5-7 million people with jailbroken phones might be interested in Apple being more supportive.

And the cynic in me says HP did this because they're worried they won't be able to attract enough "legit" developers to their platform.

It's not about apps. It's about, at the least, not trying to prevent developers from putting out unofficial improvements.

How often do we hear people say, "if only Apple did the same as such-and-such" from the jailbreak community.

Seriously. Palm threw the WebOS name out there as if it was something most people cared about. Nobody does. The vast majority of smart phones have iOS, Android or whatever BlackBerry uses (Symbian?).

"Nobody does" is pretty strong. There've been quite a few people even around here commenting on a desire for a WebOS device.

Btw, Blackberry uses the "Blackberry OS" in their current handhelds... sometimes nicknamed RIM OS. Never heard of anyone being able to hack it.

I firmly disagree. Allowing every idiot who thinks they know how to program is one of the reasons I stay far away from things like that. It runs much better when there is oversight to make sure the programming runs correctly and is not buggy or a virus.

First off, Apple's store started out with allowing every idiot who could take sample code, hack it, then rename it to be their own.

Secondly, Apple doesn't check for correct deep programming, trojans, or accidental bugs. They don't have the time, resources, or source code to do so.

 

[neko girl]

Seriously? I'm not trying to flame you but who cares about this other than a very small minority of iDevice users. Very small.

More than 10% of iPhone users is not a small minority. Most milestone iOS innovations past 1.0 (including the concept of installable Apps and an App Store) came from the jailbreak community.

Jailbroken iPhone 2G owners not only had unlocked world phones, they could install games and utilities from Cydia before apps were something Apple sold as a feature. Could mention copy & paste, multi-task bar switches for volume/next track/rotation, application multitasking... practically every feature introduced in iOS 1.0+ was first devised, programmed, and delivered by a jailbreak developer somewhere.

Apple's complete ingratitude to the home brew community isn't suprising... but it isn't good.

 

[ucfgrad93]

Apple is an oppressive dictatorship and will go to any cost to maintain complete control of thier products. They even have Gestapo like security to deal with employees that are suspected of leaking information.

Godwin in 6 for the win!

 

[Interstella5555]

More than 10% of iPhone users is not a small minority. Most milestone iOS innovations past 1.0 (including the concept of installable Apps and an App Store) came from the jailbreak community.

Jailbroken iPhone 2G owners not only had unlocked world phones, they could install games and utilities from Cydia before apps were something Apple sold as a feature. Could mention copy & paste, multi-task bar switches for volume/next track/rotation, application multitasking... practically every feature introduced in iOS 1.0+ was first devised, programmed, and delivered by a jailbreak developer somewhere.

Apple's complete ingratitude to the home brew community isn't suprising... but it isn't good.

Wow, so now the jailbreak community is responsible for pretty much everything in the current iOS? And here I thought you guys just pirated apps and made ugly themes. Give me a break, the jailbreak community hasn't except anything except maybe complaining non stop and having an overinflated ego.

 

[Passlogix]

I had pre plus and I bought verizon iPhone. There's big difference in iPhone jailbreak and webos homebrew. iPhone works perfectly fine without jailbreak, however webos barely workable with homebrew patch. If there was no patch, I would've throw my pre plus to the wall long time ago.

 

[rdowns]

Those numbers for jailbroken phones seem very high. And please spare me all the things we wouldn't have if not for the "jailbreak community".

 

[neko girl]

Wow, so now the jailbreak community is responsible for pretty much everything in the current iOS?

Can you give me an example of a feature delta in iOS which doesn't include a hardware change (ie: gyroscope) that wasn't already in a jailbroken device at least one generation prior?

I'd be interested in understanding any reason behind your thinking (apart from general bias).

 

[anjinha]

Can you give me an example of a feature delta in iOS which doesn't include a hardware change (ie: gyroscope) that wasn't already in a jailbroken device at least one generation prior?

I'd be interested in understanding any reason behind your thinking (apart from general bias).

Do you know for sure that Apple wasn't already working on multitasking, copy and paste, etc. when those hacks came out?

Plus none of those features are new, they already existed on other phones. Apple's implementation though is new and that takes time to develop.

 

[SteveKnobs]

More than 10% of iPhone users is not a small minority. Most milestone iOS innovations past 1.0 (including the concept of installable Apps and an App Store) came from the jailbreak community.

Jailbroken iPhone 2G owners not only had unlocked world phones, they could install games and utilities from Cydia before apps were something Apple sold as a feature. Could mention copy & paste, multi-task bar switches for volume/next track/rotation, application multitasking... practically every feature introduced in iOS 1.0+ was first devised, programmed, and delivered by a jailbreak developer somewhere.

Apple's complete ingratitude to the home brew community isn't suprising... but it isn't good.

10% of iPhone users IS a very small minority. Sure- that percentage may equate to millions of users. But there still is the 90% of other users- which is a gigantic majority.

 

[specify]

10% of iPhone users IS a very small minority. Sure- that percentage may equate to millions of users. But there still is the 90% of other users- which is a gigantic majority.

I'm curious how you would draw the line between a "very small" minority and a "small" or even a "normal sized" minority?

 

[SteveKnobs]

I'm curious how you would draw the line between a "very small" minority and a "small" or even a "normal sized" minority?

Um- although the minority IS the minority, I think "very small" and "small" would refer to the degree to which something is in the minority...there is a difference between say 40%, and 10%. But hey it's cool- you're smarter than me. Bravo.

 

[mightygitis]

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@ kdarling - I would love to know where you got that 5 - 7 million data from.

 

[specify]

Um- although the minority IS the minority, I think "very small" and "small" would refer to the degree to which something is in the minority...there is a difference between say 40%, and 10%. But hey it's cool- you're smarter than me. Bravo.

Lighten up, it wasn't a jab at you nor was I trying to be condescending.

I was simply curious why is it that you thought "millions of people" was a very small minority at all. I mean the population of the US is about three times that the number of iOS users (300 million vs over 100 million right?) and its unemployment rate is about 9.2%. Considering the impact that minority has it just doesn't seem quite right to label another minority of similar order "very small".

 

[neko girl]

Do you know for sure that Apple wasn't already working on multitasking, copy and paste, etc. when those hacks came out?

Plus none of those features are new, they already existed on other phones. Apple's implementation though is new and that takes time to develop.

I'm sure Apple was already working on these features. However, these amateur and likely underpaid jailbreak app developers were first to market with these features, and often for free.

This technically makes Apple a follower as far as these features are concerned. I'm not trying to be sensationalist here, but the point is simply that the jailbreak developer community adds significant innovation and new features to what is sometimes a feature-locked phone. It's like putting an aftermarket spoiler on your car, or modding it so it can perform better on a racetrack.

The jailbreak ecology provides additional visibility (press) for iPhone. It's sad that Apple views it like any other big company does.

 

[kdarling]

@*kdarling - I would love to know where you got that 5 - 7 million data from.

Well, let's see.

I Googled "iphone jailbroken percentage" and found that the Cydia creators say their figures show 10%. (Apple has admitted even more back in the early days, but we'll go with the lower figure.)

There have been what, about 70 to 80 million iPhones sold? I figured some of those are upgrades, so I took about 10% of 50-70 million instead of just saying 8 million.

I'm open to different estimates, if you have any. Thanks!

 

[thetexan]

Regardless of the argument of what jailbreakers bring to the iPhone experience, millions of people use it for whatever reason. Most don't do it for software piracy, and it seems to very rarely cause a hardware problem so jailbreakers cost Apple almost nothing. I'd go out on a limb and say there are people who'd refuse to use the iPhone if they couldn't jailbreak so Apple has actually profited from sales due to jailbreaking.

All Apple has to do is stop fighting the jailbreak community with their poorly executed cat and mouse game they always seem to lose anyway. Making it easy would result in ending virtually all hardware problems caused by it (assuming there are any to begin with, most problems are a restore away from being fixed) and piracy is just something that's going to happen. Software developers know that and it's a "cost" they deal with. Jailbreaking gives you the ability to pirate apps but out of all the people I know who jailbreak none actually do that.

 

[Interstella5555]

Can you give me an example of a feature delta in iOS which doesn't include a hardware change (ie: gyroscope) that wasn't already in a jailbroken device at least one generation prior?

I'd be interested in understanding any reason behind your thinking (apart from general bias).

Do you know for sure that Apple wasn't already working on multitasking, copy and paste, etc. when those hacks came out?

Plus none of those features are new, they already existed on other phones. Apple's implementation though is new and that takes time to develop.

Exactly, I'm not up with the JB community so I haven't been comparing features, but it would be insane to think that Apple was developing these features without telling anyone. But hey, I guess we are pretty lucky that the JB community came in to save our bacon.

Why don't you show me one contribution to a iOS upgrade that the JB community has been directly responsible for that Apple wasn't simultaneously developing? Or features that are present that the JB community didn't come up with? Maybe Apple is the one innovating and you're just following their natural progression, but can do it faster because you're bypassing everything about the OS that makes it stable and don't have to conform to release standards.

 

[SteveKnobs]

Lighten up, it wasn't a jab at you nor was I trying to be condescending.

I was simply curious why is it that you thought "millions of people" was a very small minority at all. I mean the population of the US is about three times that the number of iOS users (300 million vs over 100 million right?) and its unemployment rate is about 9.2%. Considering the impact that minority has it just doesn't seem quite right to label another minority of similar order "very small".

"Intent is not a requirement for insult." But that's neither here nor there.

In regards to your question/statement, a minority of 10% is indeed very small. Like I said, 10% may represent ~10 million of people, but when compared to the remaining number of users- 90 million- one has to wonder how much of an impact they actually have. If 10% of users want widgets, blue-ray capability, and flash included in their respective devices, does that mean Apple should bow down to the whim's of this minority of users? I think the answer is no, and I think Apple has demonstrated this policy several times over.