What do you think the MacBook Pro line will look like when the Haswell update arrives

[Yebubbleman]

On the heels of this thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1508159/

and in light of this article:

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/1...ricing-drops-pricing-on-high-end-macbook-air/

I'd like to open the floor for a follow-up thread and poll:

The non-retina 13" MacBook Pro models and configuration options remain today as they did after WWDC 2012.

All models of the retina 15" MacBook Pro was given a spec-bump "refresh" akin to the "Late 2011" refresh of the then-entire MacBook Pro line, in which its Mid 2012 models were discontinued in favor of processor-bumped Early 2013 models.

The 15" non-retina lost a sales model while condensing all configure-to-order options previously available in that model on Apple's site in the configure-to-order section of the lower-end/now-only model.

And the 13" retina has its foot half in its Late 2012 generation and another in its Early 2013 generation (which makes things particularly odd as you can price out 2.6GHz models for the same cost as 2.5GHz models with the same SSD [provided it's 256GB or higher] as well as 3.0GHz models for the same cost as 2.9 models with the same SSD [provided it's 256GB or higher], but I digress).

This is substantially messier than it was prior to the Early 2013 retina models and no less ambiguous than it was after the release of the 15" retina but before the release of the 13" retina. This being said, what do you think will happen to the MacBook Pro line when Haswell comes out?

Personally, I think that the 15" non-retina will be discontinued entirely by that point, if not sooner. I think that in its place (namely the $1799 price point), we'll see a 15" Haswell-based retina running with only Haswell's Intel HD 4600 integrated graphics (similar to the "15-inch, Mid 2009, 2.53GHz" model of unibody MacBook Pro) in that price-point while the higher-end, discrete graphics models will retain the current price-points held by the current 15" retinas. I predict that Apple will not have completely discontinued the 13" non-retina MacBook Pro; the current high-end model (2.9GHz Dual-Core Ivy Bridge Core i7, 8GB of RAM) will drop to the price of and replace the current low-end model at $1199 and be otherwise unchanged. Meanwhile, the 13" retina will retain its current "Early 2013" price points though they'll work out that bizarre pricing disparity between the low and high-end models.

What say you guys? (I made this poll so you can check off whatever options apply to your opinions. Obviously there will be some overlap.)

 

[Aegelward]

I've been thinking about this, and i suspect there is a strong possibility Apple will discontinue the cMBPs as Pro designated models.

It'd allow them to build a cheaper chassis, possibly still out of metal and bring back the non-Pro macbook line. Make them 'fun' like the iPod Touch and have anodised colours.

Ideally - 13" + 15" with a tastefully colourful, but more inexpensive chassis, marginally lower specs than the rPro series. Dedicated graphics for 15" still.

inb4 Apple don't 'do' cheap

 

[nickm55]

I'm looking to buy a new Mac soon, and my thoughts are that the cMBP will be discontinued with the Haswell release, making the Pro line up all retina. Apple will push the Air as a cMBP consumer alternative. This will leave the Air and Retinas only.

The lack of a refresh on the cMBP in the last few weeks hints that the retina is their new direction. I just hope the retinas can become more user upgradeable in the Haswell release.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I'm looking to buy a new Mac soon, and my thoughts are that the cMBP will be discontinued with the Haswell release, making the Pro line up all retina. Apple will push the Air as a cMBP consumer alternative. This will leave the Air and Retinas only.

The lack of a refresh on the cMBP in the last few weeks hints that the retina is their new direction. I just hope the retinas can become more user upgradeable in the Haswell release.

Agreed. Though it is entirely curious that they left the 13" cMBP models completely unchanged from WWDC while changing/condensing the 15" models into one low-end model that could be CTOed to regain the specs of the previous high-end models. They could've done the same to the 13" cMBPs, but the fact that they didn't leads me to believe that they'll last just a little bit longer before being discontinued and that Apple will have a much easier time phasing out the 15" cMBP than they will the 13" cMBP due to them claiming that it was/is their most popular Mac by far (and thusly a sensitive area when it comes to moving buyers to a drastically newer design).

 

[DHagan4755]

I just don't see how Apple can make the retina MacBook Pro start at the classic MacBook Pro pricing. Can you honestly believe Apple will drop the entry retina model from $2,199 to $,1799? So with that in mind, it leads me to believe the classic model is here to stay awhile & will be updated in the next go around with the Haswell chipset. Or Apple revamps & improves the Air line with IPS screens (probably not retina) and adds a 15-inch Air model.

 

[skaertus]

I'm looking to buy a new Mac soon, and my thoughts are that the cMBP will be discontinued with the Haswell release, making the Pro line up all retina. Apple will push the Air as a cMBP consumer alternative. This will leave the Air and Retinas only.

The lack of a refresh on the cMBP in the last few weeks hints that the retina is their new direction. I just hope the retinas can become more user upgradeable in the Haswell release.

I agree. Non-retina MacBook Pros are a legacy product which are going to be discontinued.

The retina models will become cheaper. High resolution displays will become cheaper as more manufacturers hit mass production. And SSDs are getting cheaper too.

Plus, Haswell will provide a much increased battery life, making it possible to cram an ultra-high resolution display in ultrabooks. Acer has already previewed an ultrabook with an ultra-high resolution display, and which will be released this year (likely in June or later). Apple may release a redesigned MacBook Air with a retina display as well.

I think the line of MacBook Pros will look like the following:

13-inch lower end MacBook Pro: US$ 1,499.00
13-inch higher end MacBook Pro: US$ 1,699.00
15-inch lower end MacBook Pro: US$ 1,999.00
15-inch higher end MacBook Pro: US$ 2,499.00

----------

I just don't see how Apple can make the retina MacBook Pro start at the classic MacBook Pro pricing. Can you honestly believe Apple will drop the entry retina model from $2,199 to $,1799? So with that in mind, it leads me to believe the classic model is here to stay awhile & will be updated in the next go around with the Haswell chipset. Or Apple revamps & improves the Air line with IPS screens (probably not retina) and adds a 15-inch Air model.

Why not?

Apple dropped the price of the 13-inch models. The lower end is now US$ 200 cheaper, and the higher-end is US$ 300 cheaper than when at launch. Why can't Apple drop the price of the 15-inch model as well?

 

[Ice Dragon]

13-inch lower end MacBook Pro: US$ 1,499.00
13-inch higher end MacBook Pro: US$ 1,699.00
15-inch lower end MacBook Pro: US$ 1,999.00
15-inch higher end MacBook Pro: US$ 2,499.00

Agree with this pretty much but eventually they'll need (I hope they go to anyway) to go to a $999 13" Air, $1,199 base 13" rMBP, $1,499 13" rMBP, $1,799 15" rMBP, and $1,999 rMBP.

 

[skaertus]

Agree with this pretty much but eventually they'll need (I hope they go to anyway) to go to a $999 13" Air, $1,199 base 13" rMBP, $1,499 13" rMBP, $1,799 15" rMBP, and $1,999 rMBP.

Well, that would be great, but I don't think it will happen.

If the 13-inch base Air is priced at US$ 999, what would be the prices of the 11-inch Air then?

Remember that the most expensive iPad is currently at US$ 929, and that Apple has consistently kept its cheapest laptop offering at US$ 999 or even a little higher than that.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I just don't see how Apple can make the retina MacBook Pro start at the classic MacBook Pro pricing. Can you honestly believe Apple will drop the entry retina model from $2,199 to $,1799?

I don't think Apple will drop the current entry level 15" retina model from $2,199 at all. I do, however, believe that they will introduce a lower-end 15" retina model that lacks discrete graphics and only comes with Haswell's Intel HD 4600 graphics (which are rumored to be near the performance of the current NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M) and that THAT model will have a starting price of $1,799 and will replace the sole remaining non-retina 15" MacBook Pro that is being sold today. Apple did something similar with the Mid 2009 generation of MacBook Pro and it worked out fairly well for them. In this case, this will allow them to lower the entry price of admission to the 15" retina MacBook Pro party until SSD prices lower even further. Let me remind you that Apple's asking price of all Apple-proprietary mSATA blade SSDs on all machines that use them dropped substantially when the Early 2013 retina MacBook Pros came out. Odds are they will continue to do so.

So with that in mind, it leads me to believe the classic model is here to stay awhile & will be updated in the next go around with the Haswell chipset. Or Apple revamps & improves the Air line with IPS screens (probably not retina) and adds a 15-inch Air model.

1. If the non-retina MacBook Pros were going to get the bump to Haswell, wouldn't you think that they'd have also been given the same mid-term processor bump that their retina equivalents received last week? I'd certainly think so.

2. While I'd love a 15" Air, and while I love the non-retina models, (a) the 15" Air ain't happening, and (b) the non-retina models are sadly on their way out; the writing is on the wall.

 

[Ice Dragon]

If the 13-inch base Air is priced at US$ 999, what would be the prices of the 11-inch Air then?

Remember that the most expensive iPad is currently at US$ 929, and that Apple has consistently kept its cheapest laptop offering at US$ 999 or even a little higher than that.

I am actually in favor of killing off the 11" Air since I feel it is useless with the iPad getting more and more powerful.

 

[skaertus]

I am actually in favor of killing off the 11" Air since I feel it is useless with the iPad getting more and more powerful.

Well, I do not think that is going to happen. They are two different products, aimed at different purposes. In Tim Cook's parlance, one would be a toaster, and the other, a refrigerator.

 

[Lancer]

Not sure how to vote but IMO in June with the next CPU update we could see the MBP and MBPr merge into one line, maybe with a base model non retina but the same case design used for both lines.

This will mean no built in DVD and FW being removed. JMHO

 

[Yebubbleman]

Not sure how to vote but IMO in June with the next CPU update we could see the MBP and MBPr merge into one line, maybe with a base model non retina but the same case design used for both lines.

This will mean no built in DVD and FW being removed. JMHO

While switching to the new body style for retina and non-retina makes sense from their standpoint of unifying to a body design that is otherwise in line with their future/present goals for the laptop line, (a) the retina panel isn't what drives the cost as high; it's the SSDs and (b) it's obvious that Apple would like developers, both of apps and of web content to optimize for the retina display as they clearly see these LCD panels as the future of computer display technology and they're completely correct. Making a MacBook Pro that adopted the new body but used the old panel would be a step away from that. Still though, the existence of such a machine is a nice idea.

 

[Lancer]

While switching to the new body style for retina and non-retina makes sense from their standpoint of unifying to a body design that is otherwise in line with their future/present goals for the laptop line, (a) the retina panel isn't what drives the cost as high; it's the SSDs and (b) it's obvious that Apple would like developers, both of apps and of web content to optimize for the retina display as they clearly see these LCD panels as the future of computer display technology and they're completely correct. Making a MacBook Pro that adopted the new body but used the old panel would be a step away from that. Still though, the existence of such a machine is a nice idea.

Fare enough, I just think they will move to a single body design at some point and boot the DVD given what they have done to the iMac. I know there are some that will be crying fowl that they MUST have a built in DVD but they will learn to live with it IMO.

I've had my 27" for 3 weeks now and the only time I've needed DVD was to install 2 bits of software, first was iLife which I could have got from Apple and Office which I could have downloaded from MS if I had no other choice.

 

[skippymac]

If I had to put money on it I'd probably say they'll discontinue the classic MBPs altogether. I think that there's a fair possibility they'll keep one or two of the current models with little or no spec bumps, and I'd like to think they'll do one last update to ease the transisition but to be honest I can't see that happening

 

[nickm55]

Not sure how to vote but IMO in June with the next CPU update we could see the MBP and MBPr merge into one line, maybe with a base model non retina but the same case design used for both lines.

This will mean no built in DVD and FW being removed. JMHO

Just a thought, but a 13 inch MBP with the new Pro form factor minus a retina display could be sold at the current cMBP price point (a bridge between the Air and the rMacs). Thus keeping the new line of Mac laptops consistent (minus a dvd drive). Maybe this new Mac could have a screen comparable to an Air to make a suitable in between option.

 

[Lancer]

Just a thought, but a 13 inch MBP with the new Pro form factor minus a retina display could be sold at the current cMBP price point (a bridge between the Air and the rMacs). Thus keeping the new line of Mac laptops consistent (minus a dvd drive). Maybe this new Mac could have a screen comparable to an Air to make a suitable in between option.

Yes they could hang on to the 13" MBP with no updates like they did with the White MacBook a couple of years.

 

[Count Blah]

Depends on the # of each model they currently sell. I know I went with a cMBP because I can upgrade some of the components when I feel that I need to. I am not a "trade my last years model in for this years model", type of person, so I plan on upgrades to make my machine last a year or two longer.

Getting rid of the cMBP would be a major downer for me.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Fare enough, I just think they will move to a single body design at some point and boot the DVD given what they have done to the iMac. I know there are some that will be crying fowl that they MUST have a built in DVD but they will learn to live with it IMO.

I've had my 27" for 3 weeks now and the only time I've needed DVD was to install 2 bits of software, first was iLife which I could have got from Apple and Office which I could have downloaded from MS if I had no other choice.

When people on these forums were all ready to denounce the optical drive back in late 2010 and mid 2011, we hadn't quite yet reached the point where having one was near pointless; plus a majority of Mac software still shipped on disc. Now, a vast majority of Mac software doesn't ship on disc, which, next to playing DVDs, is the only common, every-day/every-man's use of an optical drive. Personally, I love having mine, but my uses of it are sporadic to the point where I won't be totally upset in five years when it's time to replace my Mid 2012 15" MacBook Pro with whatever retina MacBook Pro exists at that time.

I think the other thing to factor is that watching DVDs on a retina will not look very good compared to watching any form of HD given that the screen itself is damn near 3K resolution, and without DVD playback, and software being shipped on disc, that's most of what a DVD drive is still useful for right there.

Yes they could hang on to the 13" MBP with no updates like they did with the White MacBook a couple of years.

The white MacBook got regular updates in its final years; it always received the same innards as the low-end 13" MacBook Pro of the same year until it was discontinued upon the arrival of the Mid 2011 MacBook Airs. The only way in which it stuck around, un-updated was for educational institutions which were still allowed to buy it for a year or so thereafter; but for average joes, it was discontinued a year after it was most previously updated.

Depends on the # of each model they currently sell. I know I went with a cMBP because I can upgrade some of the components when I feel that I need to. I am not a "trade my last years model in for this years model", type of person, so I plan on upgrades to make my machine last a year or two longer.

Getting rid of the cMBP would be a major downer for me.

Apple obviously sees the cMBP as a dying breed of machine and are only keeping it on life support until (a) they can bring the price of the retina models down enough (an effort that they're making progress with starting with these Early 2013 models) and (b) they feel as though the transition to retina for consumers has completed and they don't have to worry about anyone missing them. I think toward that end, they're most worried about the 13" model, hence discontinuing the higher-end 15" model while condensing its CTO options into the lower-end model for those that want it. My guess is that once they can fill the $1799 price-point with a 15" retina model (with or without discrete graphics), the 15" non-retina MacBook Pro is history.

As someone who loves the hell out of his Mid 2012 15" non-retina, I share your dismay at the potential discontinuation of the non-retina MacBook Pros. Yet, it seems fairly likely that'll be what happens.

 

[Santabean2000]

Yes they could hang on to the 13" MBP with no updates like they did with the White MacBook a couple of years.

It makes sense to hold onto this model for Ed purposes. The gen pop though, I think, is being transitioned to rMBPs as soon as they can.

Getting a 512GB SSD at a reasonable price is the point at which the transition will be complete, i.e the 13" cMBP is dropped. I don't expect that to happen until next year.

Apple obviously sees the cMBP as a dying breed of machine and are only keeping it on life support until (a) they can bring the price of the retina models down enough (an effort that they're making progress with starting with these Early 2013 models) and (b) they feel as though the transition to retina for consumers has completed and they don't have to worry about anyone missing them. I think toward that end, they're most worried about the 13" model, hence discontinuing the higher-end 15" model while condensing its CTO options into the lower-end model for those that want it. My guess is that once they can fill the $1799 price-point with a 15" retina model (with or without discrete graphics), the 15" non-retina MacBook Pro is history.

It seems you and I are in agreement. Ironic and kind of funny. I almost started a thread much like yours until I did a quick search and found this one.

 

[wabbit42]

The 13" cMBP is Apple's best seller. I seriously doubt it will be discontinued, at least until the retina models are within £100.

 

[Count Blah]

Apple obviously sees the cMBP as a dying breed of machine and are only keeping it on life support until (a) they can bring the price of the retina models down enough (an effort that they're making progress with starting with these Early 2013 models) and (b) they feel as though the transition to retina for consumers has completed and they don't have to worry about anyone missing them. I think toward that end, they're most worried about the 13" model, hence discontinuing the higher-end 15" model while condensing its CTO options into the lower-end model for those that want it. My guess is that once they can fill the $1799 price-point with a 15" retina model (with or without discrete graphics), the 15" non-retina MacBook Pro is history.

As someone who loves the hell out of his Mid 2012 15" non-retina, I share your dismay at the potential discontinuation of the non-retina MacBook Pros. Yet, it seems fairly likely that'll be what happens.

The recent iMac redesign should tell everyone that Apple does what it wants, and the usability for the consumer takes a back seat.

MY only point was that if the 15" cMBP was the biggest seller, then that would be about the only thing to give apple pause. Having to jump through hoops to DIY an SSD and Memory on a slightly reworked rMBP would make a lot of people happy. Putting the word out that it's SOOOOO difficult, but doable, would satisfy my desires.

And I agree. Being price conscious and buying Apple products do not generally go hand in hand. But for those who are price conscious, the cMBP is a nice Apple Laptop.

 

[buysp]

Maybe not this year but i can only see Retina Pro's and Airs in the range.
The days of the cMBP are numbered.

 

[dusk007]

I do, however, believe that they will introduce a lower-end 15" retina model that lacks discrete graphics and only comes with Haswell's Intel HD 4600 graphics (which are rumored to be near the performance of the current NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M) and that THAT model will have a starting price of $1,799 and will replace the sole remaining non-retina 15" MacBook Pro that is being sold today.

The 650M comparison benchmarks for the GT3e could still mean only half the performance in any case the 4600 won't definitely be anywhere near it.

http://fudzilla.com/home/item/30633-intel-gt3-5200-5100-5000-4600-explained

4600 is GT2 and only somewhat faster than current HD 4000 (20 instead of 16 EU rumored)
GT3 will be calle HD 5100 or 5200 with embedded RAM.

Even the GT3e will probably be only 640M or even 635M level performance. The HD 4600 is almost certainly not the high end part.

 

[Aegelward]

I'm honestly hoping they double the baseline memory on all the Macs that use SSDs

rMBP 13 starts at 256
rMBP 15 starts at 512

A bit of a pipe dream i guess. but upgrading to 512 is really expensive, and it's about the minimum i need.