What is with the constant cynicism on this site???

[DougFNJ]

I've been noticing I have been visiting this site less and less lately for shorter periods of time. Is it just me, or do members here just not like each other? Are different varieties of individuals from around the world not allowed to have different opinions without others beating them down? Opinions are not right or wrong, it's what one prefers over something else.

Requests for simple assistance are immediately stomped down with angry mobs of people telling that individual to use the search button. Here's a little hint, sometimes the searches come back with a million threads, none being relevant to the problem the OP is trying to solve.

Threads cannot seem to stay on topic without other angry members coming in and arguing within a thread with info not even being close to relevant to the original topic.

Someone has a problem with the way they were handled from Apple either in store or on the phone and the fanboys beat them down and explain how we are supposed to kiss Apples behinds....why? It's APPLE, don't you get it?

I could go on and on, but whats the point? Where's the gratitude for having the ways and means to be able to enjoy these devices? I hold on to that appreciation everytime I turn it on. Unemployment rises, the economy tanks, 2 wars continue with no end in site......times are tough for a lot of people out there, and I was lucky enough to be able to sit down at my table this morning, pour myself a cup of coffee and read the newspaper wirelessly from my iPad.....

Why so jaded???? This obviously dosen't apply to everybody. I hope the attitude changes at some point, the iPad forum on this site was a lot more fun when we were anticipating the release date all pumped and excited.

 

[BudgetBaby]

Wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Angryipadguy]

Most people I know who own apple products are idiots and there's no shortage of them on this site. You get fanboys on every site but for some reason apple fanboys are the worst of the bunch. They are unhelpful and can't add anything to a thread other idiotic posts. Get used to it. This is one of the worst forums for it for sure.

 

[skubish]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

What does this thread have to do with the iPad?

 

[DougFNJ]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

What does this thread have to do with the iPad?

Use the search button

 

[nick96ss]

so so true

 

[Capt T]

Most people I know who own apple products are idiots and there's no shortage of them on this site. You get fanboys on every site but for some reason apple fanboys are the worst of the bunch. They are unhelpful and can't add anything to a thread other idiotic posts. Get used to it. This is one of the worst forums for it for sure.

Here is your answer OP. People like this that tell all of us Apple users that we are idiot fanboys. When you try to actually help someone and they tell you that you are wasting their time because they don't like your suggestions.

This forum is actually one of the better ones for iPad help. One of the most active, with quite a few knowledgeable people. Unfortunately you start to not know if someone actually is having an issue, or if they are just here because they get a kick out of causing grief. When they tell the people trying to help them they are idiots or don't have a clue for every suggestion that has worked for at least some. Don't want to try anything or even go to Apple for help or an exchange it gets hard to want to help people. Which is unfortunate.

 

[spinedoc77]

It's not Apple fanboys or the site in particular, it's endemic to all online forums. It's a combination of a persons need to justify his/her purchase to the rest of the world and the anonymity of the internet in general. But you see it in any debate, whether it's Ford versus Chevy, Apple versus Microsoft, Chocolate versus Vanilla, etc etc.

I see the same exact thing on every single other forum I am a member of, it's just human nature (at least some humans).

 

[Piggie]

Agreed.

What tends to wind others up is you get a group of people who just have to think what they own is perfect and any change to it would be unacceptable.

Then the change is made, they buy it, and this new device becomes perfect and any change would be unacceptable.

This drives some people nuts, as they will defend anything.

Steve jobs does not want BluRay drives in Mac's so of course, BluRay is rubbish and of course it should not be put into Macs.

Then 2 years later he fits BluRay, and it's suddenly excellent and it not the right time for it, and not having BluRay would not be wrong.

I recall the iPad's weight.

Hey it would be nice if in the future it was a bit lighter.

But no, these people reply (and I've seen the posts here in this forum)

Any heavier would be wrong, any lighter would be wrong (it would feel cheap)
It's perfect as it is.

Until in a few years time a lighter one is made, then of course that one will become perfect.

It's as if they just can't think for themselves combined perhaps with accepting that something they own could be in any way better by being changed in some way.

 

[Angryipadguy]

Agreed.

What tends to wind others up is you get a group of people who just have to think what they own is perfect and any change to it would be unacceptable.

Then the change is made, they buy it, and this new device becomes perfect and any change would be unacceptable.

This drives some people nuts, as they will defend anything.

Steve jobs does not want BluRay drives in Mac's so of course, BluRay is rubbish and of course it should not be put into Macs.

Then 2 years later he fits BluRay, and it's suddenly excellent and it not the right time for it, and not having BluRay would not be wrong.

I recall the iPad's weight.

Hey it would be nice if in the future it was a bit lighter.

But no, these people reply (and I've seen the posts here in this forum)

Any heavier would be wrong, any lighter would be wrong (it would feel cheap)
It's perfect as it is.

Until in a few years time a lighter one is made, then of course that one will become perfect.

It's as if they just can't think for themselves combined perhaps with accepting that something they own could be in any way better by being changed in some way.

My point exactly. But it only ever happens with apple fanboys. You don't get stupid posts like that on any of the other 8 forums I'm a member on and like you say in their eyes nothing can be wrong with a product because it's made by apple so they give you bull crap replies. So many time have I heard the apple fanboy crew say the iPhone is perfect the iPhone 2 is perfect the iPhone 3 is perfect the iphone3gs is perfect the iPhone 4 is perfect lol. Clearly it was not because they had to have the new one because theirs was not anywhere near perfect.

 

[IndustrialSpace]

The truth is, Apple "Fanboys" (or whatever one chooses to call them) are VERY defensive about Apple. Apple is NOT perfect and they know this much. They want to protect Apple so they bend the truth and miminize problems, beyond the point of acquiescing. They are very concerned with Apple's future and profits. They WANT Apple to succeed, even if it means being a little dishonest. Apple fans look the other way with defects. They accept defective yellow screens, are willing to use electrical tape on the outter antenna of an IP4, willing to endure scratched DVDs/Discs, buzzing noises from the screen.... and so on. THey are in LOVE with Apple. As we all know, love is blind. You just need to continue to voice yourself.

All companies are prone to problems, not just Apple. However, the criticism is not level and often is distorted, in favor of Apple.

 

[al256]

IMO, this site started going down when Apple started to secure more market share. More users signed up on this site that weren't dedicated Mac users. Suddenly, there were PC users on our forms; some wanted to own a Mac and others just wanted to be here and comment. It was really weird at first..

Years ago I started commenting that we are losing our Mac culture. Something that used to bind us and make us friendly. With so many new Mac users coming about they couldn't really absorb our ways. Now we have all these users on this site and a new way of doing things. Do I miss the old days? Yes. Will we get it back? No. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[spinedoc77]

IMO, this site started going down when Apple started to secure more market share. More users signed up on this site that weren't dedicated Mac users. Suddenly, there were PC users on our forms; some wanted to own a Mac and others just wanted to be here and comment. It was really weird at first..

Years ago I started commenting that we are losing our Mac culture. Something that used to bind us and make us friendly. With so many new Mac users coming about they couldn't really absorb our ways. Now we have all these users on this site and a new way of doing things. Do I miss the old days? Yes. Will we get it back? No. Nothing lasts forever.

Mac culture? Come on, I'm trying to keep a straight face here. These are electronic devices meant to make calls and manage information, they aren't babies or ways of life. I'm a mostly PC user who owns a bunch of Apple products, I don't live the "microsoft culture" though, I just buy what suits my needs with no feelings of betraying one side.

If you need your fellow human being to own a Mac just to be friendly with them then something is wrong IMO. I don't mean this to sound mean at all, seriously I don't, but the most annoying thing in the world is this whole mac versus PC crap that has been propagated into our society.

But then again, as I stated previously, this is human nature and not particularly specific to Apple users contrary to popular belief on this site. I see the same name calling, trolling, flaming, and just general lack of regard that wouldn't be missing if the users were face to face, on every single forum I have ever visited. This is why we have sports teams for example, their is a rabid fan behind most concepts.

 

[IndustrialSpace]

IMO, this site started going down when Apple started to secure more market share. More users signed up on this site that weren't dedicated Mac users. Suddenly, there were PC users on our forms; some wanted to own a Mac and others just wanted to be here and comment. It was really weird at first..

Years ago I started commenting that we are losing our Mac culture. Something that used to bind us and make us friendly. With so many new Mac users coming about they couldn't really absorb our ways. Now we have all these users on this site and a new way of doing things. Do I miss the old days? Yes. Will we get it back? No. Nothing lasts forever.

Apple has become more than a niche player in recent years. Apple for a long time was a small community of users sharing common experiences, both positive and negative. The iPod was the impetus to bridging the PC-type users. It helped introduce the Apple brand and product at a minimal price entry point. This allowed many more non-Apple users to be more comfortable with a smaller competitor. The next phase of inclusion was set with the iMac and it's ability to run Windows OS. Now more PC users could delve into this brand and its products. With the advent of the iPhone (a huge huge hit), it further attracts more consumers to its brand. With growth like this, its not uncommon for a company to endure growing pains and difficulties with quality. They are ramping up for large orders, which they still can't fill. This obviously stresses the supply chain as well. Inevitably, they wil have SNAFUs with product design. Apple is trying to stay on top, but clearly thinning themselves out or spreading themselves too thin across their product line. They're rushing to get products out the door.

 

[al256]

Mac culture? Come on, I'm trying to keep a straight face here. These are electronic devices meant to make calls and manage information, they aren't babies or ways of life. I'm a mostly PC user who owns a bunch of Apple products, I don't live the "microsoft culture" though, I just buy what suits my needs with no feelings of betraying one side.

If you need your fellow human being to own a Mac just to be friendly with them then something is wrong IMO. I don't mean this to sound mean at all, seriously I don't, but the most annoying thing in the world is this whole mac versus PC crap that has been propagated into our society.

But then again, as I stated previously, this is human nature and not particularly specific to Apple users contrary to popular belief on this site. I see the same name calling, trolling, flaming, and just general lack of regard that wouldn't be missing if the users were face to face, on every single forum I have ever visited. This is why we have sports teams for example, their is a rabid fan behind most concepts.

Um... Yes, I believe you; I can't help you to understand what I'm talking about. I could say something about Harley Davidson riders and how they get together and just ride their bikes because they love them but I just don't know. I think it would be a waste of time for both of us if I directly reply to your comment. You're going at this from a whole different perspective than I am.

I joined this site less than two months after the new and still existing forums began. I've always been a Mac user since my first computer in '96 and this site offered a chance to really talk to others in a very PC world. I used to get so much ***** for being a Mac user ten years ago. Others from that time period can relate. Heck, when the very first Apple Store opened in Colorado a bunch of guys in a truck drove by and yelled, "macs suck!" That seemingly constant barrage from PC users was one element that would bring Mac users together. But there were other factors as well.

I don't know, things have changed around here. I never thought I would be trying to explain any of this to a PC user on a Mac forum. Yes I know you are more than just a PC user but to answer one part of your reply; Microsoft has never really had a culture of its own. The closest I ever came to seeing it was watching ZDTV and later TechTV. Leo Laporte and Patrick Norton did a good job of bridging the large gaps between user knowledge and computer products. Still it didn't really seem like PC users had the same base of experiences to pull them together.

So yeah, just more idle rambling. Maybe someone will pick up where I left off and try to explain some of these ideas. Or, I guess you could read this book. http://www.amazon.com/Macintosh-Naked-Truth-Scott-Kelby/dp/0735712840

 

[spinedoc77]

Um... Yes, I believe you; I can't help you to understand what I'm talking about. I could say something about Harley Davidson riders and how they get together and just ride their bikes because they love them but I just don't know. I think it would be a waste of time for both of us if I directly reply to your comment. You're going at this from a whole different perspective than I am.

I joined this site less than two months after the new and still existing forums began. I've always been a Mac user since my first computer in '96 and this site offered a chance to really talk to others in a very PC world. I used to get so much ***** for being a Mac user ten years ago. Others from that time period can relate. Heck, when the very first Apple Store opened in Colorado a bunch of guys in a truck drove by and yelled, "macs suck!" That seemingly constant barrage from PC users was one element that would bring Mac users together. But there were other factors as well.

I don't know, things have changed around here. I never thought I would be trying to explain any of this to a PC user on a Mac forum. Yes I know you are more than just a PC user but to answer one part of your reply; Microsoft has never really had a culture of its own. The closest I ever came to seeing it was watching ZDTV and later TechTV. Leo Laporte and Patrick Norton did a good job of bridging the large gaps between user knowledge and computer products. Still it didn't really seem like PC users had the same base of experiences to pull them together.

So yeah, just more idle rambling. Maybe someone will pick up where I left off and try to explain some of these ideas. Or, I guess you could read this book. http://www.amazon.com/Macintosh-Naked-Truth-Scott-Kelby/dp/0735712840

First off I want to thank you for keeping this civil the way discussions should be. I'd love to hear more of this mac culture as I just never understood it. It's funny you mention a couple of things which are interesting to me.

First your comment about Harley riders, this is pretty funny because I own a Harley that is not a Harley, lol. Let me explain, I own a Vrod which is a harley davidson motorcycle, but to the "real" harley riders it's not a "real" harley. If you go to the "real" harley forums you will see the "real" harley riders bashing the vrod because it is not air cooled, or because it looks different, or because it has a different engine, etc etc ad nauseum. Very often it will turn into trolls, flames, or just flat out personal assaults. This is just one example of how it's just human nature to defend what you have and put down what is perceived as the competition. You would think that all computer users, just as all motorcycle riders, would band together to advance their way of life instead of falling into fragmented camps defending their particular subset of the same concept.

The other thing which was interesting was you mentioned the lack of a microsoft culture, but then mention some of my absolute favorite reviewers/commentators like TechTV and Leo Laporte. Does the fact that I admire them and used to listen to what they had to say qualify me into the PC culture? I don't think so because I also admire Steve Jobs and what he has done to the industry as well, while at the same time admiring Bill Gates, etc etc. I don't shut out the non Mac stuff, I just admire and respect whatever deserves it IMO.

Yeah I'm an idealist, I believe the world would be a better place if there wasn't any "real" harley riders or "real" mac users.

 

[al256]

First off I want to thank you for keeping this civil the way discussions should be. I'd love to hear more of this mac culture as I just never understood it. It's funny you mention a couple of things which are interesting to me.

First your comment about Harley riders, this is pretty funny because I own a Harley that is not a Harley, lol. Let me explain, I own a Vrod which is a harley davidson motorcycle, but to the "real" harley riders it's not a "real" harley. If you go to the "real" harley forums you will see the "real" harley riders bashing the vrod because it is not air cooled, or because it looks different, or because it has a different engine, etc etc ad nauseum. Very often it will turn into trolls, flames, or just flat out personal assaults. This is just one example of how it's just human nature to defend what you have and put down what is perceived as the competition. You would think that all computer users, just as all motorcycle riders, would band together to advance their way of life instead of falling into fragmented camps defending their particular subset of the same concept.

The other thing which was interesting was you mentioned the lack of a microsoft culture, but then mention some of my absolute favorite reviewers/commentators like TechTV and Leo Laporte. Does the fact that I admire them and used to listen to what they had to say qualify me into the PC culture? I don't think so because I also admire Steve Jobs and what he has done to the industry as well, while at the same time admiring Bill Gates, etc etc. I don't shut out the non Mac stuff, I just admire and respect whatever deserves it IMO.

Yeah I'm an idealist, I believe the world would be a better place if there wasn't any "real" harley riders or "real" mac users.

And thank you as well. No amount of yelling and personal belittling on the internet is going to change anyone's mind or make the world a better place.

I'm looking into getting my motorcycle endorsement before the summer ends so I've been inclined to watch shows on TV that involve motorcycles. I only mentioned the Harley Davidson bit because I heard one 'Hog rider' (??) mention that it doesn't matter if you're a doctor, carpenter or lawyer because everyone that rides together with a Harley is treated as an equal. It was the only thing that seemed relatable when writing my post. I do recall years ago about the Vrod not really being accepted but haven't heard anything else about it since.

Well, all I have are my experiences. I grew up as a geek and had geek friends. Out of the seven of us only one other was Mac user. They didn't watch or care about TechTV when I showed them the programing. There was no special time of the year for them to get excited about new Microsoft or third-party products but one did secure his place as a Windows XP™ beta tester. The only thing that seemed similar between them was the occasional snide remark about Macs or my Mac. Even the Microsoft XBox didn't do anything for them. I was the only one who had one.

I do remember when Windows 2000 came out and they had an install party on the network. I never saw Windows users excited about something and actually buying it in a timely manner. FWIW, Win2k was my favorite version of the OS, it even emulated well on the PowerPC. That was the only thing that seemed similar but I still have yet to see it in my friends or at the time college course mates.

After watching Balmer run Microsoft for the past few years I now have tremendous respect for Bill Gates and how he ran things.

I need to go meet a client and run errands now. Sorry I didn't get a chance to talk about the Mac culture I mentioned. Maybe you can explain some of the PC/Microsoft culture that I don't know about.

 

[rhett7660]

Most people I know who own apple products are idiots and there's no shortage of them on this site. You get fanboys on every site but for some reason apple fanboys are the worst of the bunch. They are unhelpful and can't add anything to a thread other idiotic posts. Get used to it. This is one of the worst forums for it for sure.

Yeah sure they are... because there is no such thing as a rapid andriod fanboy... give me a break.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

It's as if they just can't think for themselves combined perhaps with accepting that something they own could be in any way better by being changed in some way.

There's a few problems

1. People cannot think for themselves, and choose to be iSheep who are under the RDF. There are those people who can think for themselves, and are not as under the spell of Apple's RDF. These people clash, and the conversation starts to fail.

2. A few years ago, owning a mac was as unique as owning a bright pink car - it made you stand out, and it gave the owners of such unique items something in common to talk about. Now, everyone owns a mac, and the "How pink is your car" discussions are over. The quality of the conversation declines.

2. A few years ago, macs were expensive, didn't have many useful programs for the majority of people, and with it brought exclusivity to the community - mostly wealthy artistic people would be mac users. Now, it's everybody and their mom. With such varying socioeconomic demographics, the quality of discourse drops.

3. Macs are, on average, more expensive for what you get. Pre 2006, a mac was a specialized piece of hardware, with a price that reflected the production costs - including the lack of mass production. Now, I can compare a Macbook Pro to a Dell and see that Apple is charging around twice the price of the components, which makes people see Apple not as a quality computer company, but as a company that is only out to get money.* Anecdotal reports of how Apple treats their retail employees, and their billions in the bank, reinforce the notion that Apple is only out to get money. Die heart Apple fans from 1990 will think of Apple (the company, and its policies, ethics, etc) differently that a college student who recently switched. This will reduce the quality of the discourse.

4. Within the Apple culture there were users like Mad Jew who would help people fix their macs, using legit repair methods, which gave people something talk about. Now a days, fixing a mac can be summed up in a few steps: Reinstall OS X; Take it to an Apple store; Stop being a n00b, it's your own fault. What's worse, the only discussions that gain popularity don't include kernel hacking, but rather whether or not Apple should provide Blu-ray in their computers, something which is very polarizing. See point #1.

*yeah. Maybe Apple uses better quality components and you're paying for the looks, but when I can get a Dell laptop for word processing for $400, and the cheapest Mac for word processing is $999, Apple is overpriced for what you want.

 

[allmIne]

Yeah sure they are... because there is no such thing as a rapid andriod fanboy... give me a break.

I don't get your post - he did say that you get fanboys on both sides of the fence. Though he didn't mention whether they're fast or slow

 

[-aggie-]

I don't think this has anything to do with being a fanboy of anything. I think it's because it's the internet. On the internet they can be whatever they want to be: tough, mean, sarcastic, and bullying. In real life, probably not so much. Probably not even close.

 

[chrono1081]

I think what it is is people think that if you like an apple product you are magically this drooling psychotic "fanboy".

I have yet to see anyone I'd consider an apple fanboy, but I do see a TON of people complaining about the "fanboys". Not just on this site, but in real life, on other sites etc.

People who like mac come to mac rumors so they can talk about mac but since mac rumors is filled with so many people who hate mac that experience is not enjoyable. Mac users are also sick of it since not only do they often see it in real life (people come in my office all the time and bitch cause I have an iPhone on my desk and an Apple monitor), but they also see it on this site all the time as well.

I think people are just fed up.

 

[whooleytoo]

It's the same with every online forum - it's just an accelerated version of real life.

Initially everyone joins, thinks the site is great and is happy just to be a part of it. As times goes on, people 'take ownership' of it and feel they can and should dictate what should and shouldn't be said on the site; it starts to get territorial very quickly.

People get fed up with the constant arguing, and move on to a new site and it starts again. Moderation won't really fix it, since you'll never get everyone to agree on the level of moderation.

The fanboys will blame the trolls. The trolls will blame the fanboys.

(..and conservatives blame liberals. Liberals blame conservatives. Christians blame Muslims. Muslims blame Christians, and Jews. Atheists blame all believers. etc..etc...etc..)

 

[DougFNJ]

It's the same with every online forum - it's just an accelerated version of real life.

Initially everyone joins, thinks the site is great and is happy just to be a part of it. As times goes on, people 'take ownership' of it and feel they can and should dictate what should and shouldn't be said on the site; it starts to get territorial very quickly.

People get fed up with the constant arguing, and move on to a new site and it starts again. Moderation won't really fix it, since you'll never get everyone to agree on the level of moderation.

The fanboys will blame the trolls. The trolls will blame the fanboys.

(..and conservatives blame liberals. Liberals blame conservatives. Christians blame Muslims. Muslims blame Christians, and Jews. Atheists blame all believers. etc..etc...etc..)

Excellent point here, but I disagree to a degree. First of all, I am not a fanboy any brand. I purchase the product that presents the best user experience at the time I am using it. I own a Laptop PC, an iPod Touch, and a Droid Incredible. I have owned the Palm Treo, the Pre, Blackberry Tour/Storm/Storm 2/Bold, and I am the one shelling out the dollars. When these companys give ME the money, I will shout off the rooftops that they are the best...until then, if it is a good product, I will recommend it. I will continue to find forums that offer good support and discussion of the products I use. I will also leave good forums when they go bad because reading through Fanboy Drone-ism of any type to me is a waste of time. People fight like that about Religion and Politics.....we are talking about products here. Competition amongst companys is good....it inspires good companys to be more creative. Competition amongst customers is silly, you are spending your hard earned dollars....let the companys earn it

I noticed lately though that this site has been worse then I have seen anywhere. It's a shame because I had a completely different opinion of this site a few short months ago, and my point in writing this thread was the hope it would improve.

As far as this happening with EVERY online forum.....that's where I disagree. I think it can happen to a degree, but proper moderation regularly staying on top of personal insults and reminders to stay on topic can tend to keep it under control.

 

[IndustrialSpace]

A lot of it also has to do with the maturity level of many posters. It seems a lot are irreverent young kids spouting off. Just attacks without a cogent response. No sense of what objectivity is or any real-wolrd business acumen. Garbage-in; garbage-out. This makes for a hostile breeding ground.