What makes TVOS so bad for some people?

[jwolf6589]

Some people just hate TVOS and I cant understand why. In previous posts I have complained about always have to reboot every 2 days but that problem was the router (not TVOS) and I have yet to reboot (except for TVOS updates) since 9/11. On my own appleTV 4K 2nd generation I have hundreds of movies, TV shows and I run apps like Youtube, NewsMax, local news, USA Today, Weather, The Photos app, Podcasts, and occasionally music (although I am not a big music person). I DO NOT play games so perhaps this is the reason why some hate TVOS. In the past I have used AppleTV + and Netflix, although these days I do not have a movie subscription service. Oh and I forgot I also run the MLB app during the baseball season everyday. That app has gotten much better over the years and these days it rarely acts up.

So what are people doing with TVOS that makes them hate it? Perhaps running the A8 chip and expecting too much and blaming the OS instead of the chip? Or what?

 

[Juicy Box]

Some people just hate TVOS and I cant understand why.

You could say that about any Apple HW or SW. There is some people that just hate them.

It might be better if you gave specific examples of what you are talking about, but just based on your interaction with my posts about tvOS and the ATV, you called me an "Apple Hater", or something similar.

I am a long-time Apple TV fan, and have been using them a lot longer than you. But, just because I complain about something doesn't mean I hate it.

Maybe you are confusing hate with constructive and valid criticism of Apple and their products?

So what are people doing with TVOS that makes them hate it?

You have to keep in mind that starting with the ATV4 (HD), the Apple TV was significantly more expensive than the competition.

When people are paying a premium price, they expect more.

If the competition is able to do almost everything the ATV can do, it is understandable that people may question the ATV's value.

If the competition is able to do something that the ATV cannot, then people may feel like the ATV is a ripoff.


Put it this way, if someone goes to Mc Donald's and get served a crappy sandwich, they most likely will say to themselves, "it is Mc Donald's, what did I expect?". If they go to a nice restaurant, order a $200 plate, and get served a Big Mac, they would most likely not be happy and complain.

Perhaps running the A8 chip and expecting too much and blaming the OS instead of the chip?

The A8 is probably just as powerful as what's in most non-Apple streaming equipment. That is just a guess, but I read somewhere back in 2021 that the A10X in the ATV4K1 had a lot more raw performance than all of the streaming box competitors, with the closest being the Nvidia Shield Pro, which was still a lot less powerful.

The A8 is still probably overkill for just a 1080p streaming box.

The A15 is miles ahead of the competition.

So, the HW isn't the issue.

Or what?

One issue I see with tvOS is the lack of attention from Apple. It hardly ever gets improved, with bugs being present for many updates. Updates tend to bring new bugs, and people never know when the issues will be addressed.

 

[-Gonzo-]

One issue I see with tvOS is the lack of attention from Apple. It hardly ever gets improved, with bugs being present for many updates. Updates tend to bring new bugs, and people never know when the issues will be addressed.

What are these bugs you speak of?
I’m aware of a library population issue with the ATV app some have reported having when they have over a certain amount of titles but other than that what are these other new bugs?

 

[Juicy Box]

What are these bugs you speak of?

Not sure if you are asking about current bugs I am experiencing, or all the bugs others and myself have encountered in the past.

If you are talking about current bugs as of tvOS 16.1, there are a few. Some have been around for a few years.

The tvOS App Store Top 200 bug. This is new with tvOS 16. The "See All" block for the top apps is missing. Can only see the top 15. Since this is pretty much the best way of app discovery on tvOS, this one really sucks.

The Storage is Full bug. This has been around for a couple of years, and still here with tvOS 16. When attempting to download a new app, and you get the storage is full message, prompting you to delete apps to get space back, once you delete enough apps to clear space for the new app, it doesn't update the storage amount for a while. Usually about 10 minutes to an hour, the system will allow your to download the new app. I posted about this in the past, sometimes deleting an extra few GBs, but not being able to download anything. Not sure if I explained that well enough.

The Home Sharing screensaver bug. Sometimes the Home Sharing screensaver doesn't work and it automatically switches back to Aerials. This has been around for a few years.

Themes for Aerial Screensavers bug. Themes don't always work. It switches back to Downtown LA randomly. I only like the Landscape theme, and only have that on "Show". But the LA at night one always ends up coming back eventually. I have even tried the "Never" on when to download new Aerials, but it always goes back to Downtown LA. I wonder if this bug might be related to a lack of storage.

Just a few I am currently experiencing, at least the ones I can think of at the moment. I have reported all of the above to Apple's Feedback at least once.

 

[srbNYC]

Ask @BWhaler

 

[jwolf6589]

Not sure if you are asking about current bugs I am experiencing, or all the bugs others and myself have encountered in the past.

If you are talking about current bugs as of tvOS 16.1, there are a few. Some have been around for a few years.

The tvOS App Store Top 200 bug. This is new with tvOS 16. The "See All" block for the top apps is missing. Can only see the top 15. Since this is pretty much the best way of app discovery on tvOS, this one really sucks.

The Storage is Full bug. This has been around for a couple of years, and still here with tvOS 16. When attempting to download a new app, and you get the storage is full message, prompting you to delete apps to get space back, once you delete enough apps to clear space for the new app, it doesn't update the storage amount for a while. Usually about 10 minutes to an hour, the system will allow your to download the new app. I posted about this in the past, sometimes deleting an extra few GBs, but not being able to download anything. Not sure if I explained that well enough.

The Home Sharing screensaver bug. Sometimes the Home Sharing screensaver doesn't work and it automatically switches back to Aerials. This has been around for a few years.

Themes for Aerial Screensavers bug. Themes don't always work. It switches back to Downtown LA randomly. I only like the Landscape theme, and only have that on "Show". But the LA at night one always ends up coming back eventually. I have even tried the "Never" on when to download new Aerials, but it always goes back to Downtown LA. I wonder if this bug might be related to a lack of storage.

Just a few I am currently experiencing, at least the ones I can think of at the moment. I have reported all of the above to Apple's Feedback at least once.

I do not experience the storage is full bug when downloading apps.

 

[jwolf6589]

You could say that about any Apple HW or SW. There is some people that just hate them.

It might be better if you gave specific examples of what you are talking about, but just based on your interaction with my posts about tvOS and the ATV, you called me an "Apple Hater", or something similar.

I am a long-time Apple TV fan, and have been using them a lot longer than you. But, just because I complain about something doesn't mean I hate it.

Maybe you are confusing hate with constructive and valid criticism of Apple and their products?




You have to keep in mind that starting with the ATV4 (HD), the Apple TV was significantly more expensive than the competition.

When people are paying a premium price, they expect more.

If the competition is able to do almost everything the ATV can do, it is understandable that people may question the ATV's value.

If the competition is able to do something that the ATV cannot, then people may feel like the ATV is a ripoff.


Put it this way, if someone goes to Mc Donald's and get served a crappy sandwich, they most likely will say to themselves, "it is Mc Donald's, what did I expect?". If they go to a nice restaurant, order a $200 plate, and get served a Big Mac, they would most likely not be happy and complain.



The A8 is probably just as powerful as what's in most non-Apple streaming equipment. That is just a guess, but I read somewhere back in 2021 that the A10X in the ATV4K1 had a lot more raw performance than all of the streaming box competitors, with the closest being the Nvidia Shield Pro, which was still a lot less powerful.

The A8 is still probably overkill for just a 1080p streaming box.

The A15 is miles ahead of the competition.

So, the HW isn't the issue.


One issue I see with tvOS is the lack of attention from Apple. It hardly ever gets improved, with bugs being present for many updates. Updates tend to bring new bugs, and people never know when the issues will be addressed.

I really was not addressing you personally.

 

[Juicy Box]

I do not experience the storage is full bug when downloading apps.

If you think about it, this makes total sense in your case. You said that you do not play games, so I would think that you probably never come close to being out of storage.

It might be better if you gave specific examples of what you are talking about, but just based on your interaction with my posts about tvOS and the ATV, you called me an "Apple Hater", or something similar.

I really was not addressing you personally.

I didn't at all think you were addressing me personally with this thread.

But, in other threads, you definitely were addressing me when saying that my criticism of tvOS, ATV, and Apple was just because that I hate Apple.

My point is that maybe you are confusing "hate" with constructive and valid criticism of Apple and their products.

That is why I am think that it would be better if you posted actual examples, and see if people are blindly hating in tvOS, or is it just constructive criticism.

 

[jwolf6589]

If you think about it, this makes total sense in your case. You said that you do not play games, so I would think that you probably never come close to being out of storage.





I didn't at all think you were addressing me personally with this thread.

But, in other threads, you definitely were addressing me when saying that my criticism of tvOS, ATV, and Apple was just because that I hate Apple.

My point is that maybe you are confusing "hate" with constructive and valid criticism of Apple and their products.

That is why I am think that it would be better if you posted actual examples, and see if people are blindly hating in tvOS, or is it just constructive criticism.

I welcome constructive criticism. But I do not welcome hate towards apple.

 

[Jack_SB]

It really annoys me that you can’t run a VPN app.

 

[Juicy Box]

I welcome constructive criticism. But I do not welcome hate towards apple.

I guess you didn't understand my post.

You said that I was an Apple hater when I was giving constructive criticism on tvOS and the ATV in a thread a few months ago.

Again, maybe you are confusing constructive criticism for blind hate for Apple. IDK if that is the case, which is why I thought you should give actual examples of what prompt you to create the thread instead of us just trying to guess.

 

[Juicy Box]

It really annoys me that you can’t run a VPN app.

Yeah, me too.

You can do it at a router level to work with the ATV, but that won't work with my set up.

 

[jwolf6589]

I guess you didn't understand my post.

You said that I was an Apple hater when I was giving constructive criticism on tvOS and the ATV in a thread a few months ago.

Again, maybe you are confusing constructive criticism for blind hate for Apple. IDK if that is the case, which is why I thought you should give actual examples of what prompt you to create the thread instead of us just trying to guess.

I apologize.

 

[Juicy Box]

I apologize.

You don't need to apologize, I didn't take offense back then nor now.

The reason why I posted that was to give an example of you confusing constructive criticism for hate, because maybe that is what you are seeing elsewhere, people giving criticism for what they see as the short comings of tvOS, but you are taking it as people hating on the ATV/tvOS.

Can you post examples of what prompt you to create this thread? It doesn't need to be quotes if you don't want to call out anyone, just examples.

 

[jwolf6589]

You don't need to apologize, I didn't take offense back then nor now.

The reason why I posted that was to give an example of you confusing constructive criticism for hate, because maybe that is what you are seeing elsewhere, people giving criticism for what they see as the short comings of tvOS, but you are taking it as people hating on the ATV/tvOS.

Can you post examples of what prompt you to create this thread? It doesn't need to be quotes if you don't want to call out anyone, just examples.

Some just complain and complain about TVOS and the appleTV. I don’t remember the specifics of the criticism. It I have seen many people over the months attacking TVOS and the ATV.

 

[Juicy Box]

Some just complain and complain about TVOS and the appleTV. I don’t remember the specifics of the criticism. It I have seen many people over the months attacking TVOS and the ATV.

You can replace "tvOS" and "Apple TV" with any Apple OS and corresponding Apple HW and I am sure the forum is filled with examples of those as well, probably more so.

Since you don't have specific posts, hard to say what exactly people are talking about. The most complaints I see on the forum is:

Price
Bugs and glitches, and how they tend to remain on tvOS for multiple OS versions
Questioning the usefulness of it
Question why use on over built-in Smart TV OS
Lack of attention from Apple
The Siri Remote design, both the 1st gen and current
Lack of local storage for media
Underutilization of the power of the HW
No Find my Siri Remote
Constant prompts to update to a new OS
Lack of VPN support
No browser
No remote (as in location) support
No D-pad on the remote app
No volume on the remote app
Lack of gaming support from Apple
tvOS has barely been changed since the tvOS launch compared to other Apple OS
Lack of Aerial SS options, (why can we still not pick what Aerial we want to see??)
No way of seeing used/free storage

I am sure I am missing some common complaints.

I love my ATVs, but they are far from perfect and there will always be room for improvement.

 

[mattopotamus]

You can replace "tvOS" and "Apple TV" with any Apple OS and corresponding Apple HW and I am sure the forum is filled with examples of those as well, probably more so.

Since you don't have specific posts, hard to say what exactly people are talking about. The most complaints I see on the forum is:

Price
Bugs and glitches, and how they tend to remain on tvOS for multiple OS versions
Questioning the usefulness of it
Question why use on over built-in Smart TV OS
Lack of attention from Apple
The Siri Remote design, both the 1st gen and current
Lack of local storage for media
Underutilization of the power of the HW
No Find my Siri Remote
Constant prompts to update to a new OS
Lack of VPN support
No browser
No remote (as in location) support
No D-pad on the remote app
No volume on the remote app
Lack of gaming support from Apple
tvOS has barely been changed since the tvOS launch compared to other Apple OS
Lack of Aerial SS options, (why can we still not pick what Aerial we want to see??)
No way of seeing used/free storage

I am sure I am missing some common complaints.

I love my ATVs, but they are far from perfect and there will always be room for improvement.

The potential bugs are really what have me hesitating switching from a Roku Ultra that is giving me no issues. It just works. I have the new ATV on order, but seems like the current OS is giving people some nagging issues, and my set up involves an AVR, where problems seem more common. Specifically audio dropping with ATMOS playback.

 

[Juicy Box]

The potential bugs are really what have me hesitating switching from a Roku Ultra that is giving me no issues. It just works. I have the new ATV on order, but seems like the current OS is giving people some nagging issues, and my set up involves an AVR, where problems seem more common. Specifically audio dropping with ATMOS playback.

Yeah, bugs on tvOS are still a problem, but it used to be a lot worse. Now, most bugs are just annoying and not a huge impact to the experience, imo.

I have also used Roku and Fire TV on my secondary TVs, but have since gone all ATVs. The UI is just so much better on tvOS.

I really should have added the tvOS Apple Store to my complaint list. App discovery is a huge problem on tvOS, and unless the app is in the top 15 most downloaded, it is really hard to find apps. The tvOS App Store bug, that is missing the top 200 apps has made that problem even worse.

The whole tvOS App Store could use a redesign.

 

[Gator5000e]

I love my 2 ATV 4K boxes. I have no real issues with them. I did have the Atmos audio bug with Netflix after the update to tvOS 15.6, but tvOS 16 cleared that up for me. The home screen interface is just clean with my apps. I have a 2021 Sony Bravia with Google TV and that home page and interface are horrible. The ATV is easy to use for me. I have not tried a Firestick or Roku but I am happy enough with the ATV that I won't change absent some major development.

 

[FaasNat]

I'm generally okay with the TVOS interface. Since we just use it for watching stuff, it's simple enough to launch those apps to get the show/video going.

What I do wish, is it tied the service logins to the user on the AppleTV. So when I'm using my profile and launch Netflix or Hulu for instance, it'll go straight into my profile on those services instead of asking me who's watching.

 

[w5jck]

What are these bugs you speak of?
I’m aware of a library population issue with the ATV app some have reported having when they have over a certain amount of titles but other than that what are these other new bugs?

There are plenty of bugs, and many apps cannot run correctly because Apple is always breaking things with new tvOS releases. Philo TV is total rubbish now, and AcornTV is flaky, just to name two apps. You can drink as much Apple juice as you want, but that doesn't change the fact that tvOS is simply bad, and it is a moving target which app developers have to constantly make unnecessary changes for. Granted that app developers are having issues with their code, but they shouldn't have to spend so much time with each new tvOS release to patch up their code because Apple changes the way it works. Every OS from Apple is filled with bugs, the worst is iPadOS followed closely by tvOS, but they all have way more bugs than they should.

 

[darthbane2k]

Yeah, me too.

You can do it at a router level to work with the ATV, but that won't work with my set up.

Me three - but I have a workaround.

I connect my ATV to my main network via ethernet. I do not set up a wifi connection to the main network on the ATV.
I have a VPN router running a wireless network. For occasions where I need my ATV to use my VPN, I simply remove the ethernet cable - it then falls back to wifi and connects to the VPN router.

 

[jwolf6589]

There are plenty of bugs, and many apps cannot run correctly because Apple is always breaking things with new tvOS releases. Philo TV is total rubbish now, and AcornTV is flaky, just to name two apps. You can drink as much Apple juice as you want, but that doesn't change the fact that tvOS is simply bad, and it is a moving target which app developers have to constantly make unnecessary changes for. Granted that app developers are having issues with their code, but they shouldn't have to spend so much time with each new tvOS release to patch up their code because Apple changes the way it works. Every OS from Apple is filled with bugs, the worst is iPadOS followed closely by tvOS, but they all have way more bugs than they should.

I’d vote for MacOS Ventura to be the most bug ridden.

 

[HDFan]

it really annoys me that you can’t run a VPN app.

?

The best Apple TV VPN

Choosing and setting up an Apple TV VPN can be tricky – here's how

www.tomsguide.com

Yeah, bugs on tvOS are still a problem,

and many apps cannot run correctly because Apple is always breaking things with new tvOS releases. Philo TV is total rubbish now, and AcornTV is flaky, just to name two apps.

Do you have any documentation of AppleTV API changes that caused application problems? Apple TV software updates seem to be very minor in nature as opposed to other Apple OSes.

tvOS is simply bad, and it is a moving target which app developers have to constantly make unnecessary changes for.

Documentation? Don't ever remember having an OS update break one of my apps. Have had a lot of terrible app updates though such as the HBO one. It is probably difficult for smaller multi platform apps to have the funds to find and retain qualified AppleTV programmers. Have logged bugs on Apple TV apps and not once have they used the defense that Apple caused the problem.

What does Philo TV and AcornTV support say when you report your problems?

Every OS from Apple is filled with bugs,

As do all major OSes from other vendors. The more features supported (CarPlay, HomeKit, Watch) the more bugs there will be partially due to the compexities of OS integrations.

 

[Jack_SB]

?

The best Apple TV VPN

Choosing and setting up an Apple TV VPN can be tricky – here's how

www.tomsguide.com

Read the article before replying mate. Like every other article it says use a VPN on a router or a smart DNS.
That’s not VPN support.