What the rMBP means to the future of computing

[Trey M]

Just recently received my 2nd Retina Macbook Pro- I returned the base model for the base model with 16GB Ram. I am so absolutely satisfied with everything about this computer- something about my early 2011 felt missing- I also own an 11'' MBA and that always just felt "cooler" than my 2011 MBP. However, after using this machine for an extended period of time both with my first and second retina, I have to say that I don't think I could be happier with this computer. It brings me to ponder a certain thought- how will the Retina MBP influence other future laptops, and where will this direction be? This computer feels so blazing fast that you sort of have to wonder if performance will sort of top out at one point- meaning that though higher clock speeds and etc. are possible, applications won't necessarily require those high of speeds to perform speedy, still.

What do you guys think? How will the form factor and screen of the rMBP influence the industry, and do you think performance is going to, or currently becoming, less important as computers become extremely, extremely powerful?

 

[12dylan34]

Just recently received my 2nd Retina Macbook Pro- I returned the base model for the base model with 16GB Ram. I am so absolutely satisfied with everything about this computer- something about my early 2011 felt missing- I also own an 11'' MBA and that always just felt "cooler" than my 2011 MBP. However, after using this machine for an extended period of time both with my first and second retina, I have to say that I don't think I could be happier with this computer. It brings me to ponder a certain thought- how will the Retina MBP influence other future laptops, and where will this direction be? This computer feels so blazing fast that you sort of have to wonder if performance will sort of top out at one point- meaning that though higher clock speeds and etc. are possible, applications won't necessarily require those high of speeds to perform speedy, still.

What do you guys think? How will the form factor and screen of the rMBP influence the industry, and do you think performance is going to, or currently becoming, less important as computers become extremely, extremely powerful?

There's a lot of necessary improvements in performance that professional applications are already prepared to take advantage of. Maybe when a render that currently takes 3 days in Cinema 4D can be instantaneous, or I can work with a fully rendered scene with ambient occlusion and global illumination in real time, we'll talk.

The rMBP feels blazing fast now, but it'll be dog slow in 5 years when running programs of that day. New features are added, which require more memory and more processor usage. Programs not needing additional power over time means that innovation probably isn't occurring.

Yes, I believe that competitors will release laptops to compete with the rMBP. Maybe a new class, like how the MacBook Air was spun off by other companies to make the "ultrabook" category. Überbooks or something. I believe that there will probably always be a place in the foreseeable future for fat hunks of cheap, ugly plastic crap that companies like Dell and HP make.

 

[RealEyes]

Thinner machines, better displays, eventually quantum computers will be consumer marketed. Holograms, fiber optics, "dictation" in the sense of controlling every aspect of the computer.

Such is the direction we're heading.

 

[Trey M]

There's a lot of necessary improvements in performance that professional applications are already prepared to take advantage of. Maybe when a render that currently takes 3 days in Cinema 4D can be instantaneous, or I can work with a fully rendered scene with ambient occlusion and global illumination in real time, we'll talk.

The rMBP feels blazing fast now, but it'll be dog slow in 5 years when running programs of that day. New features are added, which require more memory and more processor usage. Programs not needing additional power over time means that innovation probably isn't occurring.

Yes, I believe that competitors will release laptops to compete with the rMBP. Maybe a new class, like how the MacBook Air was spun off by other companies to make the "ultrabook" category. Überbooks or something. I believe that there will probably always be a place in the foreseeable future for fat hunks of cheap, ugly plastic crap that companies like Dell and HP make.

I completely agree that some apps 5 years from now will render poorly on the current rMBP. What I see happening, though, is that the jump from generation to generation seems to be smaller than it used to be for computers. It felt like computers every single year were becoming so much faster than the previous generation, but now it sort of seems to be slowing down a bit. Do you agree? Do you think a computer 5 years from now will be incredibly faster, or just marginally? Like I said, it sort of seems like things have slowed down- I can remember my gaming computer I built ~6 years ago was so completely terrible 2 years later compared to what was on the market, but now that doesn't really seem to be the case.

 

[AirThis]

The display will force other manufacturers to rethink the screen panels they include in their products. However, as is often the case with new Apple technologies, it will take most of their competitors 2 or 3 years to "see the light". A few adventurous ones will nevertheless jump on the bandwagon as soon as possible.

As for the form factor, it will probably have a certain influence on high-end Windows notebooks. I expect to see copycat rMBPs in the next 8 to 16 months.

In addition to all this, I expect more and more thunderbolt ports to be present on Windows notebooks in the next 6 to 12 months. However, the retina is only one of several factors contributing to this.

 

[Trey M]

The display will force other manufacturers to rethink the screen panels they include in their products. However, as is often the case with new Apple technologies, it will take most of their competitors 2 or 3 years to "see the light". A few adventurous ones will nevertheless jump on the bandwagon as soon as possible.

As for the form factor, it will probably have a certain influence on high-end Windows notebooks. I expect to see copycat rMBPs in the next 8 to 16 months.

In addition to all this, I expect more and more thunderbolt ports to be present on Windows notebooks in the next 6 to 12 months. However, the retina is only one of several factors contributing to this.

You think it'll take that long for a close-competing machine to arise? I would think it won't be 3-4 months before we see a comparable Windows machine (spec-wise).

 

[squeeks]

it uses the EXACT same core i7 as all of the other macbooks...you only think its faster because of the SSD... come play with my cMBP with its SSD im sure you wont notice a difference. There is nothing..NOTHING revolutionary about the logicboard/cpu/gpu

 

[AirThis]

You think it'll take that long for a close-competing machine to arise? I would think it won't be 3-4 months before we see a comparable Windows machine (spec-wise).

Yes, I think it will take some time to get most of the specs right. Obviously some competitors might have an rMBP clone sooner, but I don't think it will really be a good imitation or alternative. Anyway, time will tell...

 

[leman]

I completely agree that some apps 5 years from now will render poorly on the current rMBP. What I see happening, though, is that the jump from generation to generation seems to be smaller than it used to be for computers. It felt like computers every single year were becoming so much faster than the previous generation, but now it sort of seems to be slowing down a bit. Do you agree?

No, the increase in speed is as dramatic as ever. This year ultra-light MacBook Air is significantly faster than a 2009 (2.5 years old) maxed-out MacBook Pro, both CPU and GPU-wise. Of course, there is a certain wall regarding maximal single-core performance...

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There is nothing..NOTHING revolutionary about the logicboard/cpu/gpu

Revolutionary? Probably, not. But I'd say that being able to pack and cool all that in such a slim package is a very impressive feet indeed. I am not aware of any other hardware company able to do something like that before.

 

[tillsbury]

I'm not sure if it's "blazing fast". It's acceptably quick, but slower than a desktop computer. Considering its size, of course, it's very quick. But not amazingly so. Compared with a several years old portable using old-style hard disks of course it's quicker, but that's not down to the rMBP, it's what happened when SSD's replaced hard drives.

It will be an unusable dog within five years, just like every computer has always been.

 

[entatlrg]

You can bet ALL of Apple's laptop competitors have ordered rMBP's on day one and are reverse engineering them as we speak. They'll copy best they can using cheaper parts and sacrificed design principals and then use price and propaganda to get consumers to buy them.

Much like Asus has done with their MacBook Air clone.

Apple innovates, spends billions on R&D, and makes design paramount while other computer manufacturers wait and wonder.

Funny thing is even with Apple's finished prototype to copy from it still takes competitors years to come out with a product and when they do it sucks, at the very least for the first few revisions.

 

[ixodes]

The display will force other manufacturers to rethink the screen panels they include in their products. However, as is often the case with new Apple technologies, it will take most of their competitors 2 or 3 years to "see the light".

The retina is so revolutionary that most "other" manufacturers are still recovering from the shock of such clarity.

I disagree with your time line, it will probably take the others somewhere between 8 to 10 years to catch up.

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You can bet ALL of Apple's laptop competitors have ordered rMBP's on day one and are reverse engineering them as we speak. They'll copy best they can using cheaper parts and sacrificed design principals and then use price and propaganda to get consumers to buy them.

There's no way they will reverse engineer something like the MBPr, Apple will have them locked up in a law suit.

 

[squeeks]

Revolutionary? Probably, not. But I'd say that being able to pack and cool all that in such a slim package is a very impressive feet indeed. I am not aware of any other hardware company able to do something like that before.

not hard to pack it in, they've been doing it for years with the MBA and now ultra books, the cooling system is the only revolutionary tech in the rMBP and apple gets credit for being bold enough to use a high density pixel display in a full blow machine. But when you keep close control on the hardware and software of the machines you sell you can do things like that.

.

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There's no way they will reverse engineer something like the MBPr, Apple will have them locked up in a law suit.

what are you talking about? what is so special about it that apple can sue for? a high density pixel display? Apple doesn't even make them, they are made by Sharp, samsung and LG! Thats like apple suing other MFGs because they copied them and put LED backlighting in their machines. There is no new tech in the rMBP that is revolutionary enough that apple will have any grounds for a suit. unless someone DIRECTLY duplicates the cooling design.

 

[whitedragon101]

You can bet ALL of Apple's laptop competitors have ordered rMBP's on day one and are reverse engineering them as we speak. They'll copy best they can using cheaper parts and sacrificed design principals and then use price and propaganda to get consumers to buy them.

Much like Asus has done with their MacBook Air clone.

Apple innovates, spends billions on R&D, and makes design paramount while other computer manufacturers wait and wonder.

Funny thing is even with Apple's finished prototype to copy from it still takes competitors years to come out with a product and when they do it sucks, at the very least for the first few revisions.

I agree but I wish it wasn't so. It would be great if another manufacturer tried to go head to head out innovating apple with a top quality laptop. This would boost innovation and also provide an alternative product to buy when apple make a mistake.

 

[prfrma]

Basically:

And thats from intel:

We're almost a year ahead of schedule

 

[ixodes]

what are you talking about? what is so special about it that apple can sue for? a high density pixel display? Apple doesn't even make them, they are made by Sharp, samsung and LG! Thats like apple suing other MFGs because they copied them and put LED backlighting in their machines. There is no new tech in the rMBP that is revolutionary enough that apple will have any grounds for a suit. unless someone DIRECTLY duplicates the cooling design.

I have confidence that Apple will apply their new tactic of launching a legal attack. So far it's been quite useful as they have devices blocked from the marketplace.

I'm sure Apple will come up with at least one or more reasons to continue their assault on the competition. The experience they've gained in attacking Samsung will be put to good use on others. Apple's not one to back down. It's what keeps things interesting. This is no time for Apple to become less polarizing.

 

[cmChimera]

not hard to pack it in, they've been doing it for years with the MBA and now ultra books, the cooling system is the only revolutionary tech in the rMBP and apple gets credit for being bold enough to use a high density pixel display in a full blow machine. But when you keep close control on the hardware and software of the machines you sell you can do things like that.

The MBA has ultra low voltage, dual core chips, no discrete graphics, and a smaller screen and a lower resolution to drive. No ultrabook has the specs of the the rMBP plus the battery life. You're making a silly comparison. As for the screen, it's revolutionary. Flat out. There's no other computer, let alone laptop, that has anything close.

what are you talking about? what is so special about it that apple can sue for? a high density pixel display? Apple doesn't even make them, they are made by Sharp, samsung and LG! Thats like apple suing other MFGs because they copied them and put LED backlighting in their machines. There is no new tech in the rMBP that is revolutionary enough that apple will have any grounds for a suit. unless someone DIRECTLY duplicates the cooling design.

You don't seem to understand that to design the laptop they did, they have to design new engineering and manufacturing methods. You can patent them, and sue for them if they are infringed.

 

[tillsbury]

Basically:

And thats from intel:

We're almost a year ahead of schedule

So what resolution will my new 30" display have? (drool...)

 

[leman]

not hard to pack it in, they've been doing it for years with the MBA and now ultra books, the cooling system is the only revolutionary tech in the rMBP and apple gets credit for being bold enough to use a high density pixel display in a full blow machine. But when you keep close control on the hardware and software of the machines you sell you can do things like that.

MBA and the usual ultrabooks have a much lower termal envelope. With minimalistic design like these, each additional watt of power to be dissipated poses a serious challenge. Yet Apple manages to pack a full-power 45W CPU + 45W GPU in a package where most of their competitors only manage an ULV CPU with a low-power GPU (if any at all).

BTW, I don't want to argue about this and I am not claiming that you are wrong or anything. I just think that rMBP is a very impressive piece of engineering.

 

[squeeks]

The MBA has ultra low voltage, dual core chips, no discrete graphics, and a smaller screen and a lower resolution to drive. No ultrabook has the specs of the the rMBP plus the battery life. You're making a silly comparison. As for the screen, it's revolutionary. Flat out. There's no other computer, let alone laptop, that has anything close.



You don't seem to understand that to design the laptop they did, they have to design new engineering and manufacturing methods. You can patent them, and sue for them if they are infringed.

Don't even need to compare to MBA, just take any uMBP and remove the optical drive, discreet hard drive, and ram, drop in the nifty new cooling and poof you could have had a rMBP thickness mac years ago. The only reason you DIDINT was there were not cheap enough storage solutions other than 2.5" mechanical drives. But im sure all of you apple fanboys think that Apple engineered reduced SSD prices just so they could make their .75" mbp

I stand by what i said, there is nothing super revolutionary that apple engineered for the rMBP that will change the future of computing. Apple just decided to jump on the high pixel density display train first. And to make large SSD's standard in their machines FIRST because they know their customers will pay the premium for them.

BTW, I don't want to argue about this and I am not claiming that you are wrong or anything. I just think that rMBP is a very impressive piece of engineering.

Yes the cooling system that allows them to run the 650m at over 900mhz in that small of a form factor is impressive. But that is the only "revolutionary" thing about it. Not to mention however with all of the threads about graphics glitches on the rMBP how well is this really working? Too soon to tell.

 

[cmChimera]

Don't even need to compare to MBA, just take any uMBP and remove the optical drive, discreet hard drive, and ram, drop in the nifty new cooling and poof you could have had a rMBP thickness mac years ago. The only reason you DIDINT was there were not cheap enough storage solutions other than 2.5" mechanical drives. But im sure all of you apple fanboys think that Apple engineered reduced SSD prices just so they could make their .75" mbp

I'm sorry, but are you trolling? If you removed the stuff from the cMBP, then you would have a cMBP without the things you removed. It would still be much thicker than a rMBP. Somehow in that, you seem to ignore the fact that forcing the same components in a smaller enclosure means there is less room for heat to disperse. The cooling system is a direct result of that. They needed it, or the computer would overheat.

I stand by what i said, there is nothing super revolutionary that apple engineered for the rMBP that will change the future of computing. Apple just decided to jump on the high pixel density display train first. And to make large SSD's standard in their machines FIRST because they know their customers will pay the premium for them.

I'm going to summarize this portion of your post.

Apple did not do anything revolutionary with the rMBP to change the future of computing. They just brought an extremely high resolution panel to laptops first, pushing the industry to high resolution displays. Also, they making flash storage all the more mainstream, attempting to destroy legacy platters.

 

[sireShonBohn]

what are you talking about? what is so special about it that apple can sue for? a high density pixel display? Apple doesn't even make them, they are made by Sharp, samsung and LG! Thats like apple suing other MFGs because they copied them and put LED backlighting in their machines. There is no new tech in the rMBP that is revolutionary enough that apple will have any grounds for a suit. unless someone DIRECTLY duplicates the cooling design.

How do you think the monitor ends up working with the software, hardware, power system etc., it's not plug n play like you imagine it is.

 

[squeeks]

I'm sorry, but are you trolling? If you removed the stuff from the cMBP, then you would have a cMBP without the things you removed. It would still be much thicker than a rMBP. Somehow in that, you seem to ignore the fact that forcing the same components in a smaller enclosure means there is less room for heat to disperse. The cooling system is a direct result of that. They needed it, or the computer would overheat.

Trolling? Really? Maybe you should read my post before making accusations.

"forcing the same components into a smaller enclosure" that is EXACTLY what they did... took the SAME logicboard (with slight variations: see below), CPU, GPU from the cMBP, threw it in a smaller enclosure, soldered the ram to the logicboard, attached a card version of an SSD threw a nifty new cooler on it, and bam rMBP. I dont know what else you think they magically did to accomplish that. But apparently by suggesting that there arent many differences between the cMBP and the rMBP i'm trolling.

How do you think the monitor ends up working with the software, hardware, power system etc., it's not plug n play like you imagine it is.

Show me where I said it's plug and play. And we're not talking rocket science, it mearly takes some tweaking for how windows are drawn on the screen. Are you suggesting there is some completely new way of connecting the screen to the logicboard? If you are i hate to tell you, you're mistaken. It works the exact same was as a regular display it just has a tighter pixel count on the actual LCD panel. Backlighting is still basic LED and signal is still transferred the same way.

 

[terraphantm]

How do you think the monitor ends up working with the software, hardware, power system etc., it's not plug n play like you imagine it is.

That's something MS will deal with. The hardware manufacturers are free to put in whatever display they want (though there would be little point without proper OS support)

 

[jcpb]

The display will force other manufacturers to rethink the screen panels they include in their products. However, as is often the case with new Apple technologies, it will take most of their competitors 2 or 3 years to "see the light". A few adventurous ones will nevertheless jump on the bandwagon as soon as possible.

As for the form factor, it will probably have a certain influence on high-end Windows notebooks. I expect to see copycat rMBPs in the next 8 to 16 months.

In addition to all this, I expect more and more thunderbolt ports to be present on Windows notebooks in the next 6 to 12 months. However, the retina is only one of several factors contributing to this.

ASUS has seen the light, in fact the MBPR display is one of the main reasons why it released its Zenbook Primes before Intel's dual-core Ivy Bridge embargo was lifted.