When are we going BluRay or HDDVD
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Big-TDI-Guy
macrumors 68030
While Apples adoption of one of these formats would certainly help tip the scales of the format war - it's too early in the game for that transition right now. On top of that - blue ray drives (read only) are still hugely expensive - forget Blue Ray / HD DVD writers.
Remember when DVD-Rs came out? It was 24 bucks for 3 blank single-layer DVD-Rs. NOBODY bought them. Nothing moved until writers were in the 100 or less range, and media was close to CR-Rs in cost.
Edit: The other scary thought... Now that CD / DVD RW drives are fairly commonplace - think of how long PCs will hold onto THAT format.
I mean it took them over a (#*$ing decade to get away from FLOPPIES.
Remember when DVD-Rs came out? It was 24 bucks for 3 blank single-layer DVD-Rs. NOBODY bought them. Nothing moved until writers were in the 100 or less range, and media was close to CR-Rs in cost.
Edit: The other scary thought... Now that CD / DVD RW drives are fairly commonplace - think of how long PCs will hold onto THAT format.
I mean it took them over a (#*$ing decade to get away from FLOPPIES.
NAG
macrumors 68030
The thing is that DVDs have enough capacity for most things. Bluray is the only one with a real size advantage and we're not really to the point of needing it yet (especially when you consider the cost). Then when you look at consumer adoption of the formats it looks like everyone is going to lose this "war."
bertpalmer
macrumors 6502
I'd think in about 5 years (optimistically...)
A lot of Sony's computer range have Blu Ray built in now and I think Tosh has the same with HDDVD.
I think the only reason I would upgrade is to be able to burn BluRay as it seems like a great cheap way to backup rather than buying harddrives...
A lot of Sony's computer range have Blu Ray built in now and I think Tosh has the same with HDDVD.
I think the only reason I would upgrade is to be able to burn BluRay as it seems like a great cheap way to backup rather than buying harddrives...
i agree, hd-dvd offers really only 3x more space than a dvd per layer. if you look at how long DVD lasted and how fast technology improvements are made it would be hard for HD-DVD to last even a year, who knows, blu-ray at 25 gb per layer (5x as much as DVD) might not be a significant enough step from DVD.
although blu ray is more expensive, its cost per GB is lower. If Apple doesnt introduce blu-ray support soon, Im thinking of getting FastMacs blu-ray superdrive for backing up video, music projects, ect.
QuantumLo0p
macrumors 6502a
I'm with you all on the capacity aspect. However, I'm not going to jump on it for data backup until the write speeds increase. Remember when DVD's were new and only wrote 2X? I'd have to wait a looong time to write a complete HD or Bluray disk.
HD/Bluray just to back up data? Not for me.
Although, I suppose I could repaint my house interior or remodel the family room while it writes a disk.
HD/Bluray just to back up data? Not for me.
Although, I suppose I could repaint my house interior or remodel the family room while it writes a disk.
I'm with you all on the capacity aspect. However, I'm not going to jump on it for data backup until the write speeds increase. Remember when DVD's were new and only wrote 2X? I'd have to wait a looong time to write a complete HD or Bluray disk.
HD/Bluray just to back up data? Not for me.
Although, I suppose I could repaint my house interior or remodel the family room while it writes a disk.
god damn, your right...a 50 gb disc at 2x speed would take a long time.
maybe this is part of the reason apple is waiting, also the whole format war thing(ha), high prices, HDCP compliancy, and low consumer adoption rates arent helping.
Mindflux
macrumors 68000
2x CD-R and 2X DVD-R speeds were entirely different. You'd think that 2X BD or HDHVD speeds would, again be different.
8.47GB on a LaCie External Blu-Ray burner took just under 21 minutes.. 23 gig takes 1hr 39m
http://reviews.cnet.com/dvd-drives/lacie-d2-external-blu/4505-3212_7-32330473.html
Consultant
macrumors G5
Knowing Apple probably about 2 years after the standard is decided. So that means 2 years after never.
Um, some of the Apple first, for computers sold to the general public, include:
computer mouse (yes it's invented elsewhere, but Apple made it ubiquitous)
removal of flooppy drive
inclusion of USB and firewire ports
However, I think there is no need for blue ray or HD disks, as the internet is a better distributor of HD contents. No need for format wars, iTunes baby...
Chopper9
macrumors regular
This should have been a build-to-order option yesterday.
Apple has been touting how everything is going HD, coming out with iMovieHD years ago... but yet... you can't actually make a god damn HD movie with your Mac.
You can shoot it with your HD camera... but can't actually burn a disc to put in your HD player.
Complete BS.
Give us the option Apple! HD has been out long enough for you to AT LEAST give us the option.
Apple has been touting how everything is going HD, coming out with iMovieHD years ago... but yet... you can't actually make a god damn HD movie with your Mac.
You can shoot it with your HD camera... but can't actually burn a disc to put in your HD player.
Complete BS.
Give us the option Apple! HD has been out long enough for you to AT LEAST give us the option.
coachingguy
macrumors 6502a
I was just reading that...
HD will win the battle in no small part to Walmart...
Sound Advice: HD DVD is clear choice
By Don Lindich, Spec ial to the Star Tribune
Last update: November 18, 2007 5:04 PM
http://www.startribune.com/459/story/1556416.html
Take a look...
Coachingguy
HD will win the battle in no small part to Walmart...
Sound Advice: HD DVD is clear choice
By Don Lindich, Spec ial to the Star Tribune
Last update: November 18, 2007 5:04 PM
http://www.startribune.com/459/story/1556416.html
Take a look...
Coachingguy
very nice information, I was hoping this would be the case but it doesnt really make sense to me. what is the 1x, 2x, refering to?
that was a terribly written article, printed in my hometown, im embarassed.
hd-dvd has picked up a lot of momentum with their price cuts, but that has nothing to do with the merits of the format.
wait a second, a blog....i see....why on star tribune? and why are you linking to an opinion of some dude?
wal-mart represents all that is evil. and if hd-dvd wins, it will be because of wal mart, your right.
i hope they do and declare a winner. im pro blu all the way, no doubt its got better specs and is more advantageous, but if apple went hd-dvd, id go neutral in a second.
GSMiller
macrumors 68000
None of that matters unless quality content is being offered on the format. I dunno about you but I see no benefit of buying The Santa Claus 3 in high def.
I'm glad Apple is waiting. Their computers are expensive enough as is, imagine how much an iMac would cost with a Blu-ray drive that half the users wouldn't even want.
""Blu-ray Discs have higher capacity." This is a nonissue, because HD DVD has enough to do the job." - Taken from the Star Tribune article.
“640K ought to be enough for anybody.” - Taken from you know who
This author is very short sighted and must obviously not understand the technology and the advantages that blue ray actually contains and HD DVD does not. People like him do not understand vision. They look only at the here and now, the instant gratification type. If he had vision, he would understand the bigger picture, but as most media, he is talking about things he probably doesn't understand.
Which reminds me about the RIAA trial up here in Duluth,Minnesota, where i live, that the jury was comprised of 2 people who have never owned a computer or every been on the internet. Also the "computer expert" was a complete prick. Some of my ECE friends, Electrical Computer Engineering, went to watch the trial at the court house and the computer expert was saying all this wrong crap. He reminded me soooo much of a geek squad idiot. Get paid to talk out their butt. Sorry to rant, but people who dont know what they are saying can piss me off some times.
“640K ought to be enough for anybody.” - Taken from you know who
This author is very short sighted and must obviously not understand the technology and the advantages that blue ray actually contains and HD DVD does not. People like him do not understand vision. They look only at the here and now, the instant gratification type. If he had vision, he would understand the bigger picture, but as most media, he is talking about things he probably doesn't understand.
Which reminds me about the RIAA trial up here in Duluth,Minnesota, where i live, that the jury was comprised of 2 people who have never owned a computer or every been on the internet. Also the "computer expert" was a complete prick. Some of my ECE friends, Electrical Computer Engineering, went to watch the trial at the court house and the computer expert was saying all this wrong crap. He reminded me soooo much of a geek squad idiot. Get paid to talk out their butt. Sorry to rant, but people who dont know what they are saying can piss me off some times.
Nugget
Contributor
Aside from BluRay's capacity advantage, HD-DVD is the more featureful and consumer-friendly format. I'm agnostic on the issue, but it sort of bugs me when people act like BluRay is inherently better. The reality of the situation is far more nuanced than that.
HD-DVD lacks region coding (a plus), has weaker DRM (a bigger plus), is cheaper to manufacture, and has much superior support for interactive functions (and more uniform player support for the advanced features).
BluRay has the edge in capacity.
Just because HD DVD has better "features" right now doesn't mean bluray wont. HD DVD is just a small step up from dvd. It's no wonder they are able to make these features right away. Bluray is still a derivative of current dvd, but newer and with new things it is harder to understand and program for it. I own neither products, but these are things we talk about in my engineering classes. I feel bad for sony and the awesome things that they have created but because other companies can't compete they throw FUD at them about there products and consumers never actually get to see the benefits of the techonology, ie cell processor.
Edit:
Yes hddvd is cheaper, but how much more quicker will you have to upgrade to the next..and after that? Bluray is more but provides a longer time of life expectancey.
Edit:
Yes hddvd is cheaper, but how much more quicker will you have to upgrade to the next..and after that? Bluray is more but provides a longer time of life expectancey.
Nugget
Contributor
All I can say is that your perception on the issue simply is not accurate. Neither format is a "small step up" from SD-DVD. Futhermore, you have it the wrong way around -- HD-DVD has a more advanced authoring environment than BluRay. What's more, the advanced "HDi" toolkit is mandatory for HD-DVD device certification which means that every single HD-DVD player on the market today can support the full range of HD-DVD interactive features. In contrast, the less featureful BD-Java tools available on BluRay are not mandatory which means that support for the more advanced features is not widespread. From an authoring standpoint this makes HD-DVD far more attractive -- if you employ the more advanced features you can be confident that consumers will be able to make use of them. With BluRay this is not the case. The player market for BluRay is a total mess of varying features and backward compatibility problems -- hardly a good position to be in for such a new format.
This notion of yours that BluRay is "the good one" and HD-DVD is "the cheap one" simply does not comport with the reality of the marketplace.
HD-DVDs benefits go far beyond the costs of manufacturing. Both from a consumer perspective (more advanced interactive features, more reasonable DRM and a lack of region codes being the highlights) and from a studio standpoint (cheaper to produce, better tools available, and a consistent user experience).
The only edge BluRay has from a technical standpoint is capacity.
Edit: and bandwidth, to be fair.
i love it when hd-dvd fanboys bring up requirements, "we require fullHD sound" blah blah blah, "mandatory this mandatory that." BUT before you speak, look at your savior title "transformers" that does not meet your requirements or mandatory check.
"The Audio: Rating the Sound
When audio specs for 'Transformers' were announced, there was a collective sigh of disappointment from early adopters when we learned that there would be no high-res audio tracks included on this disc. Given that this is such a flagship title for the studio, the decision was quite the head-scratcher.
Indeed, I had the opportunity to attend a special 'Transformers' media event with Paramount late last week, and the question was asked almost immediately -- why no Dolby TrueHD or uncompressed PCM? The studio's answer was that due to space limitations on the disc, the decision was made to limit the audio to Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround only (here at 1.5mbps). Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality."
if the first major title on the format cant fit on a dual layer disc, imagine in 5 years if hd-dvd won, laserdisc all over again. (movies split over discs, wont last, lose the war)
blu-ray is better, far and away, im not a fan boy, but I researched and made a choice and am sticking with it. in fact, im willing to say that blu ray probably isnt the best solution, but when compared with hd-dvd, its the only.
there are about 100,000 people who want to believe they got an incredible deal on those sub $200 toshiba 1080i hd-dvd players, and they will justify it beyond belief.
Nugget
Contributor
I'd just like to point out two things which sort of deflate your whole response.
1. I'm not an "hd-dvd fanboy." I own both and have not made much of an investment in media from either camp. Pretty much all my HD disc viewing is via NetFlix because I don't have confidence in either format at this point.
2. I didn't, you know, actually say any of those things you've just "quoted" above. So, you know, maybe you should go have an argument with whoever it was who said those things and not me.
Oh, and..
3. Transformers was a terrible, terrible movie and I couldn't care any less about how it looks on HD-DVD or BluRay. I watched it on a plane and still felt like I wasted my time.
And all I'm saying (as a format-agnostic consumer) that this really is a false narrative. I'm just sick of people perpetuating the myth that BluRay is this cornucopia of features that's losing to the "cheap" HD-DVD which lacks those features but has the benefit of cheapness. The reality of the situation doesn't even remotely resemble that little canard.
BluRay is NOT "far and away" better. In fact, there are many facets of the technology where HD-DVD has the edge over BluRay when it comes to features and capabilities.
Sounds like if you ever encounter one of those people you'll enjoy arguing with them.