When moving a guide to the "Ugly" area please provide feedback

[840quadra]

I am (was) working on a new guide for the "Macrumors" section,

http://guides.macrumors.com/Reply_with_multiple_quotes

when it was moved to the "Ugly Guides" section without warning, or without any feedback (HexMonkey).

When you do something like this on a guide someone has lots of time involved in, please be proactive and explain why, and offer an explanation on what needs to be fixed.

Thanks!

840quadra

 

[Lacero]

I perused it a bit, and the screen shots did throw me in for a bit of a loop. I wasn't sure what to look out for. Perhaps Spotlight-like dimming only the relevant information and the removal of extraneous items like signatures, could help make it easier for someone to digest.

The screen shots could be saved as .GIFs instead of JPEGs for more space savings. What's the Wiki etiquette on other users updating an original Guider's screenshots?

I'm a newb at this, but something like this might be helpful. (#2.)

Here's to the Crazy Ones ​

 

[mkrishnan]

The screenshots are also too wide for a 1024 screen and a 80% width browser window.... Which is going to be a lot of PB and iBook users.

But I don't understand this whole "ugly guide" thing...isn't just sending the PM and not moving the guide at all enough?

 

[840quadra]

I perused it a bit, and the screen shots did throw me in for a bit of a loop. I wasn't sure what to look out for. Perhaps Spotlight-like dimming only the relevant information and the removal of extraneous items like signatures, could help make it easier for someone to digest.

The screen shots could be saved as .GIFs instead of JPEGs for more space savings. What's the Wiki etiquette on other users updating an original Guider's screenshots?

I'm a newb at this, but something like this might be helpful. (#2.)

Thank you for your feedback.

I will start working on the images, and provide smaller (more to the point) screen shots for the guide.

I would think part of the etiquette would be to provide some (any) feedback in regards to why the guide was moved, or labeled as ugly. There has to be a reason, otherwise why move it?

I am 100% able and willing to make changes to make this fit the expectations of our guides, but give me a chance to fix them before such an abrupt change.

The screenshots are also too wide for a 1024 screen and a 80% width browser window.... Which is going to be a lot of PB and iBook users.

But I don't understand this whole "ugly guide" thing...isn't just sending the PM and not moving the guide at all enough?

Thanks for the additional feedback..

I will start work on both strait away


::EDIT::

Guide updated with smaller images, and cleaned up some grammar and the layout.

Please provide feedback of the changes. If nobody objects to the current changes, or layout (valid reasons please) I am going to remove this guide from the Ugly Guides area in 24 hours or later.

Thanks for the feedback so far

 

[HexMonkey]

I've discussed the reasons for adding the cleanup template with 840quadra via PM, so hopefully it's all cleared up. I had originally stated reasons when I made the edit, but I had been in a hurry so must have mistakenly removed them. I apologize for this.

I've made some major changes to the page (and removed the cleanup template), including removing most of the images. I think they added a lot of clutter to the page while providing minimal gain, and also resulted in excessive load times (especially for users on dialup). However, I'm open to discussion about this if people disagree with the change, and if the general consensus is to put the removed images back, I'd be happy for that to happen.

But I don't understand this whole "ugly guide" thing...isn't just sending the PM and not moving the guide at all enough?

The point of the cleanup template isn't to tell the original author that they need to clean it up, but rather that the community in general needs to clean it up, since each article is not "owned" by the original author (so a PM wouldn't be appropriate). Personally I don't agree with them being called "ugly guides", it's usually more an issue of them not being consistent with formatting of other pages (and sometimes also having bad spelling and/or grammar) than them being ugly. For reference, all I originally did was add the cleanup template to the top of the page, and as a side effect it's added to the Ugly Guides category. I didn't "move" the article there.

 

[840quadra]

I have been communicating via PM to HexMonkey, thanks for the clarification on what has occurred. I didn't notice that the article hadn't been moved, I mistook the "cleanup" template tag, as a tag signifying the post was moved to the "ugly" category. I was in error thinking that.

The point of the cleanup template isn't to tell the original author that they need to clean it up, but rather that the community in general needs to clean it up, since each article is not "owned" by the original author (so a PM wouldn't be appropriate). Personally I don't agree with them being called "ugly guides", it's usually more an issue of them not being consistent with formatting of other pages (and sometimes also having bad spelling and/or grammar) than them being ugly. For reference, all I originally did was add the cleanup template to the top of the page, and as a side effect it's added to the Ugly Guides category. I didn't "move" the article there.

I have no problem with people making changes, that wasn't the issue. The issue was the fact that it was changed without notice while I was still working on the page ( I and many others are still learning the interface) .

since each article is not "owned" by the original author (so a PM wouldn't be appropriate).

I understand that fully, but i don't agree with the PM comment. The issue with PM'ing people not being appropriate may be true for a huge Wiki, or one on a site that isn't associated with a forum that has a PM system. Macrumors is neither of those, and it only takes a second to see if the person that created an article is online by checking the forums.

However, I'm open to discussion about this if people disagree with the change, and if the general consensus is to put the removed images back, I'd be happy for that to happen.

I agree with the comment about changes being accepted by general consensus, however I don't understand why we need to work with you individually do modifications. That last point seems to contradict the comment about their being no ownership.

I appreciate the feedback, and like most of the changes made, however the way in which the changes occurred were borderline disrespectful in my opinion of little importance.

 

[HexMonkey]

I have no problem with people making changes, that wasn't the issue. The issue was the fact that it was changed without notice while I was still working on the page ( I and many others are still learning the interface) .

Understood. In the future, you can add the editing template to an article while you're editing it to warn others not to. Usage is as follows (this automatically adds your name and the current date & time):

{{Editing|~~~~}}

I understand that fully, but i don't agree with the PM comment. The issue with PM'ing people not being appropriate may be true for a huge Wiki, or one on a site that isn't associated with a forum that has a PM system. Macrumors is neither of those, and it only takes a second to see if the person that created an article is online by checking the forums.

In this particular case a PM might have been more appropriate, but my comment was on the use of the cleanup template in general. Basically I was saying that PMs can't replace the template, although they could be used in addition to them.

I agree with the comment about changes being accepted by general consensus, however I don't understand why we need to work with you individually do modifications. That last point seems to contradict the comment about their being no ownership.

I see your point here, I guess what I meant was that in cases of disagreement there should be a discussion about it so as to prevent edit wars (where two or more people continuously revert each other's changes, which is just a waste of time). If such a discussion was to occur, I wouldn't have any more say than any other person in the discussion, and of course if my opinion wasn't the popular one my changes would be reverted.

I appreciate the feedback, and like most of the changes made, however the way in which the changes occurred were borderline disrespectful in my opinion of little importance.

Again, I'll admit that I went about it the wrong way, and I apologize for that. No disrespect was intended. I think we've both learnt from this, and I'm sure we'll work well together in the future.

 

[mkrishnan]

Thank you, also, for explaining to me, HexMonkey. I have not tried writing an article in the Wiki system yet, so I was not aware of that.

 

[840quadra]

Understood. In the future, you can add the editing template to an article while you're editing it to warn others not to. Usage is as follows (this automatically adds your name and the current date & time):

Thanks for the added clarification and understanding. I (as usual) overreacted, but I could tell (from your first reply in PM) that your intentions were not hostile. I will remember to use the editing code next time I post up a new guide.

Thanks again for the assistance, and I have learned some valuable wiki experience that should help avoid these types of transactions in the future.

Your help, understanding, and patience is greatly appreciated!