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When will Apple Macbook Pro's have IPS?

Crunch

Crunch

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 26, 2008
701
76
Crazy L.A.
...because the moment they do, I'll switch from my ThinkPad. Now that the iPad is out of the way, I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to. If they can do IPS on the small end at 9.7" with the iPad, and 27.5" on iMac, why not 15", or 17" on the Macbook's... Please advise! Thank you!
 
Crunch said:
...because the moment they do, I'll switch from my ThinkPad. Now that the iPad is out of the way, I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to. If they can do IPS on the small end at 9.7" with the iPad, and 27.5" on iMac, why not 15", or 17" on the Macbook's... Please advise! Thank you!
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What is IPS? In plane switching? If so, Apple's laptops have had IPS display panels for years.
 
Jethryn Freyman said:
What is IPS? In plane switching? If so, Apple's laptops have had IPS display panels for years.
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What? You're kidding!? Yes, I meant In-Plane-Switching! I searched through Apple's website and it is definitely pointed out for the iMac, and as of yesterday, the upcoming iPad.

Are you saying that ALL Macbook's have IPS, including the Air, and non-Pro models? Is there a reason as to why Apple does not advertise the fact that Mac's have IPS?

Thank you very much for your post!
 
Crunch said:
What? You're kidding!? Yes, I meant In-Plane-Switching! I searched through Apple's website and it is definitely pointed out for the iMac, and as of yesterday, the upcoming iPad.

Are you saying that ALL Macbook's have IPS, including the Air, and non-Pro models? Is there a reason as to why Apple does not advertise the fact that Mac's have IPS?

Thank you very much for your post!
Click to expand...

It is simply not true. As far as I know, MacBooks Pro still have TN-screens.
 
0087215 said:
It is simply not true. As far as I know, MacBooks Pro still have TN-screens.
Click to expand...

Ugh... Well, the current Macbook's have been around for a while, so when can we expect a refresh with Intel's Core i5/i7 line?

What exactly is the reason as to why Apple is unable to include IPS at least in the Pro series? If they can do IPS on the small end at 9.7" in the iPad, and 27.5" on the biggest iMac, why not a 15" or 17" panel for Macbook's...???

What am I missing here?
 
Traditionally, thickness. IPS panels are thicker than TNs, IIRC. Where they found the one for the iPad, I have no idea.
 
Ok, this is the second thread (here's the first) in which someone has insisted that current MBPs use IPS panels.

I know my 1st gen 17" doesn't (but it's old), and this detailed article on laptop screens claims that a relatively recent generation was also TN, but I can't find any definitive answers one way or the other on the current MBPs, and I don't have a nearby Apple Store to check in person.

Not saying anybody is wrong, just that I can't find a definitive "This is an IPS panel" source to cite (though I admit find it a little odd, given how much Apple has emphasized the iPad and iMac and 24" LED screens all being IPS, that Apple doesn't advertise it anywhere).

To Jethryn Freyman and others who say that they're IPS screens, are you saying this because you own one and can see that it has the 178° viewing angle and off-angle behavior of an IPS screen, or do you have another source you're using for the info? If so, please post the source so I can refer others who think they're TN.
 
Makosuke said:
Ok, this is the second thread (here's the first) in which someone has insisted that current MBPs use IPS panels.

I know my 1st gen 17" doesn't (but it's old), and this detailed article on laptop screens claims that a relatively recent generation was also TN, but I can't find any definitive answers one way or the other on the current MBPs, and I don't have a nearby Apple Store to check in person.

Not saying anybody is wrong, just that I can't find a definitive "This is an IPS panel" source to cite (though I admit find it a little odd, given how much Apple has emphasized the iPad and iMac and 24" LED screens all being IPS, that Apple doesn't advertise it anywhere).

To Jethryn Freyman and others who say that they're IPS screens, are you saying this because you own one and can see that it has the 178° viewing angle and off-angle behavior of an IPS screen, or do you have another source you're using for the info? If so, please post the source so I can refer others who think they're TN.
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I second that motion. I still have one of the last ThinkPads, a T60p, that came with a 15" 4:3 UXGA AFFS (Advanced Fragfield Shielding) S-IPS screen that BOE-Hydis (now simply Hydis) manufactured for IBM for about three months in 2006. It makes SUCH a difference. I upgraded the CPU from a 32-bit Core Duo 2.0GHz to a 64-bit Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz, but it's time to let it go.

All the PC manufacturers have pretty much refreshed their respective laptop lines with what Intel calls "the 2010 Core processors", i.e. Core i3/i5/i7. The fact that they have Hyper-threading alone makes them a big upgrade.

Anyway, when I researched the Apple Cinema line, the fact that they also have IPS (along with LED) took all of two clicks. Sifting through the Macbook Pro's sadly do not reveal anything about IPS, and I doubt that the jokers at Apple stores know anything about that. Even if they do respond in the affirmative, it's because they want to sell you one.

As for thickness on IPS panels, I've never heard that. Where did you read/hear that, Ninja J? It really surprised me when Steve Jobs stood up there and told us that the iPad has "a gorgeous 9.7" IPS screen". Just because of that, I'll get one!

Has anyone got, or played with, or seen, one of the new iMac's with the IPS screens w/ LED backlighting??? I have, at an airport Apple Store on my layover in London last month. They also had the Cinema 24" screen, and the difference is quite stunning.

So we have a less-than-10" IPS screen on the way, along with a 21.5" IPS panel on the smaller iMac, a Cinema 24" IPS Cinema screen, and another 27.5" iMac w/ IPS.

The argument that laptop screens are just too small or too expensive for IPS is ridiculous. Apple will likely sell its first millionth iPad soon after they come out in March/April. They will all have 1.5" thin IPS screens with LEDthat are just 9.7" in diameter, and cost a whopping $500-$800, depending on the flash drive, and as to whether or not you want 3G with that. Even the cheapest one of 'em will have IPS! :rolleyes: sigh
​
 
Crunch said:
Has anyone got, or played with, or seen, one of the new iMac's with the IPS screens w/ LED backlighting???
Click to expand...
I own an i7 iMac, and they are indeed gorgeous--there's a dramatic difference between one of these and a cheap TN panel.

Then again, my 17" MBP definitely has a TN panel, but it's still somewhat nicer than cheaper screens I've compared it to. I kind of wonder if people aren't mistaking very good TN panels for IPS. And I'm not even complaining about the screen in the MBPs--the ones I've seen look very nice. I just want to know for a fact what technology is involved.

For reference, I talked to an online Apple Store rep yesterday, and after checking with his manager (or something of the sort), he came back with the line I expected, something to the effect of "I'm sorry, but we don't publish that information."

I also looked at a 15" MBP in my local campus bookstore, and based on the vertical color shift it was a (very nice) TN panel, but it's not the current model, so that doesn't say anything for certain about the latest ones.

Cave Man said:
No they don't. They're TN panels.
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I have suspicions you're right, but do you have any source you can cite about the current models?

Honestly, it's easy to say "Yes, they do." or "No, they don't." but some of us would like to know why you either think or know this to be a fact, since there's obviously some strong disagreement.
 
How do you tell the difference just by looking at the display? Is it just off-angle viewing? My late 2008 20" iMac ostensibly has a TN display while the 24" has IPS, but I don't see any colour distortion when I look at it from an angle. I do see my office, though. Bloody glossy screens.

And, on a related note, if it's this hard to tell the difference, why do you care?
 
If I can't tell the difference without resorting to Googling part numbers, I don't care any more than I care who manufactured the screws holding the computer together.
 
BlueRevolution said:
How do you tell the difference just by looking at the display? Is it just off-angle viewing?
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Yes. The exact differences will vary depending on the quality of the panel and the additional tech used, but the easiest is looking at it from above at a steep angle; TN panels will invert and take on a strong yellow cast, while IPS won't. At least, that's what I do.

BlueRevolution said:
And, on a related note, if it's this hard to tell the difference, why do you care?
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I was kind of getting at that when I noted that either way the MBPs have nice screens, but there are situations in which it matters--the bit depth of the panel, for example, and the color response is different.

One of the bigger issues for color-critical work isn't that good TN panels look awful from off-angle, it's that they exhibit a slight color shift even at relatively shallow angle changes. This can result in problems with color precision just by moving your head around a little, even though it's not an issue most users would even notice, much less complain about, in everyday use.

Another good example is a subtle grey gradient I was doing for a website--looks nice on my reasonably well-calibrated IPS iMac. Looks like flat white nothing on a cheaper (but still calibrated) TN panel. Which, in my case, means I have to make it look wrong on my screen to have it look decent on 98% of the computers it'll be viewed on.
 
For the record, yes, my late 2008 20" iMac has a TN display. Thanks for the high-angle tip. I've never taken the time to examine an IPS display in much detail, so I don't have much of a frame of reference.

Makosuke said:
Another good example is a subtle grey gradient I was doing for a website--looks nice on my reasonably well-calibrated IPS iMac. Looks like flat white nothing on a cheaper (but still calibrated) TN panel. Which, in my case, means I have to make it look wrong on my screen to have it look decent on 98% of the computers it'll be viewed on.
Click to expand...

Indeed. That's one reason I like having two displays. I do my web browsing and preview web designs on my cheap 17" Dell matte display, and use the iMac for the code and graphics.
 
hope you dont mind, but whats the diff between ips and tn panels, i knew there were 2 diff types, but just not what the diffs were? but im guessing that the ips panels are better?
 
IPS offer greater viewing angles and true 8-bit color (2^8 R, 2^8 G, 2^8 B), while TN panels have smaller angles and are 6-bit color. That would be millions of colors vs. 260,000 colors. What many of the vendors do (including Apple) is use dithering to emulate 8-bit color (which is pretty good, but not so great if you do color-sensitive work - e.g, photography).

There's also PVA and MVA panels, which have features that put them in the same class as IPS panels.
 
lozzy1234567890 said:
hope you dont mind, but whats the diff between ips and tn panels...
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To add to what Cave Man said, TN panels have the advantage of having a faster refresh rate than IPS in general, which if you are a gamer may make them more desirable (less blur during very fast motion). That said, I'm pretty sure modern IPS screens are fast enough that it's not noticeable for watching video or average use.

BlueRevolution said:
Indeed. That's one reason I like having two displays. I do my web browsing and preview web designs on my cheap 17" Dell matte display, and use the iMac for the code and graphics.
Click to expand...
Oh, good, I'm not the only one who does this. I just bought a crappy old LCD monitor off a friend to use for site previews alongside my 27" iMac. Which is, in a way, embarrassing, but is sadly a necessity.
 
BlueRevolution said:
If I can't tell the difference without resorting to Googling part numbers.
Click to expand...

The TN displays used in all MacBook Pros are easy to spot, just close the lid slightly (about 35 degrees from where it is now) and watch the colors freak out.

This doesn't happen on an IPS display like the iMac or iPad.
 
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