With 2 missing links: hdcp & blu-ray/hd-dvd?
(And maybe hdmi at least for small footprint macs like mini and laptops...)
(And maybe hdmi at least for small footprint macs like mini and laptops...)
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
When will OsX be real HD capable media center?
- Thread starter toke lahti
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I believe that Apple is waiting for a clear winner to emerge in the high-definition format wars between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray before deploying this technology in their Macs. Also, Apple may be waiting for prices to come down to more reasonable levels before adopting either format. For these reasons, I think it won't be until Mac OS X 10.6 is released... or later.
What prices?
Combo drive from LG is already under $200 from retail. I bet that Apple could get them under $100 with their massive orders.
With combo drive (support for both brd & hd-dvd eg. from LG) there's no fear for being on losing side. Just embed the playback in the software.
I think that biggest problem to Apple is to do nothing.
People who want a real modern media center can't buy a mac now...
I doubt that Apple would incorporate just BD or HD-DVD only. They will go for a combo.
But the licensing for both suck to hell. They really turned crazy with their protection stuff. From the plextor blue ray burner: http://www.plextor.be/press/datasheets/Plextor_AACS.pdf
Sorry, but that is a clear no go for me. Remember that the music industry tried the same in the beginning? You had to re authorize your music frequently. And Apple said, no go. I would be happy if Apple would create a momentum here against the video industry paranoia.
But the licensing for both suck to hell. They really turned crazy with their protection stuff. From the plextor blue ray burner: http://www.plextor.be/press/datasheets/Plextor_AACS.pdf
The Plextor PX-B900A/T3KB product package includes two AACS keys with the following expiration
dates:
- Key one expires in February 2008.
This initial AACS key is already build into an application
- Key two expires in April 2009
This key is free of charge and can be obtained from the software manufacturer website (under
construction).
The software will notify the customer to renew for this second key within February 2008.
- Within May 2009, the software will notify you to renew this last key.
This third key is not free of charge and can be obtained from the software manufacturers website.
Keys needs to be renewed every 15 months.
If a customer chooses not to renew the key, he wont be able to play back BD movies which are produced
after these key expiration dates.
dates:
- Key one expires in February 2008.
This initial AACS key is already build into an application
- Key two expires in April 2009
This key is free of charge and can be obtained from the software manufacturer website (under
construction).
The software will notify the customer to renew for this second key within February 2008.
- Within May 2009, the software will notify you to renew this last key.
This third key is not free of charge and can be obtained from the software manufacturers website.
Keys needs to be renewed every 15 months.
If a customer chooses not to renew the key, he wont be able to play back BD movies which are produced
after these key expiration dates.
Sorry, but that is a clear no go for me. Remember that the music industry tried the same in the beginning? You had to re authorize your music frequently. And Apple said, no go. I would be happy if Apple would create a momentum here against the video industry paranoia.
Apple is too small player in movie business that they could change things.
Millions of HD movies are sold all the time and if Apple doesn't want to go with the flow, we just have to buy those damn windows machines for media centers...
Interesting that more than half of the voters think that Apple will neglect blu-ray and hdcp at least for next two years. By that time all other laptops and monitors uses hdmi, all graphics cards support hdcp and content makers make most of their profits from hd programs.
So Apple would expel all media centric customers?
Hard to believe...
Btw, rumors tell about bd for MP, hdcp capable graphics cards for MP and new line of ACD with hdmi. All at MacWorld...
Was it 2006 when Apple last time updated it's graphics cards for MP?
I really think that they should shorter the pace.
Has anybody heard that any Xraids with their ancient pata-disks have still sold this year... How many years from last update?
So Apple would expel all media centric customers?
Hard to believe...
Btw, rumors tell about bd for MP, hdcp capable graphics cards for MP and new line of ACD with hdmi. All at MacWorld...
Was it 2006 when Apple last time updated it's graphics cards for MP?
I really think that they should shorter the pace.
Has anybody heard that any Xraids with their ancient pata-disks have still sold this year... How many years from last update?
What you're missing here is that Apple are about to go live with movie rentals, probably at MW2008. They may very well succeed with that if they price it right. I am not as interested in optical media as many here seem to be. I think the DVD is going to go the way of the floppy. The network is getting fast enough.
Saw this:
https://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/07/research-study-itunes-video-failing-to-duplicate-music-success/
?
If Apple would have introduced HD movie rentals and selling (many people want to own their copy; same with music) two years before hd disks went to sale, Apple might have had a chence. Now there's not a chance anymore. Time window for that has already closed.
We all know that it will take about a decade before average consumer has enough bandwidth and storage for downloadable high quality hd movies. (Bd is 40 Mbit/s & 50GB per disc.)
With music that's easy because it takes about 1% of hd picture...
There has been new mainstream optical format once in decade recently. Every time just at the end of old format hdd capacity has become on par budget wise. In two years you can buy 50 GB bd disc for $1. And it will not brake after couple of years like hdd's. And hdd's are slowly going away because their unreliability and it will take even more time for solid state to became on par with bd.
I think optical media will stay for at least as long as next gen will be available (500-1000 GB holographic disc ca. 2015-2025)...
https://www.macrumors.com/2007/12/07/research-study-itunes-video-failing-to-duplicate-music-success/
?
If Apple would have introduced HD movie rentals and selling (many people want to own their copy; same with music) two years before hd disks went to sale, Apple might have had a chence. Now there's not a chance anymore. Time window for that has already closed.
We all know that it will take about a decade before average consumer has enough bandwidth and storage for downloadable high quality hd movies. (Bd is 40 Mbit/s & 50GB per disc.)
With music that's easy because it takes about 1% of hd picture...
There has been new mainstream optical format once in decade recently. Every time just at the end of old format hdd capacity has become on par budget wise. In two years you can buy 50 GB bd disc for $1. And it will not brake after couple of years like hdd's. And hdd's are slowly going away because their unreliability and it will take even more time for solid state to became on par with bd.
I think optical media will stay for at least as long as next gen will be available (500-1000 GB holographic disc ca. 2015-2025)...
whassamatta with a decent combo drive?
do not understand at this point in the technology cycle, why has this become an 'either/or' situation.
do not understand at this point in the technology cycle, why has this become an 'either/or' situation.
Am i the only person who doesn't really care about high definition yet?!
I can't remember where I heard this but it easily sums up how i feel about it
"I don't recall watching Night of the living dead and thinking, hmmmmmmmm, it was good but if only it was a bit bigger"
I can't remember where I heard this but it easily sums up how i feel about it
"I don't recall watching Night of the living dead and thinking, hmmmmmmmm, it was good but if only it was a bit bigger"
HD is looking incredible good. I totally agree with that. But the license stuff is really crazy. Until that is solved I have no interests in buying a legal HD movie.
The chances that you buy some hardware and that you will later not be able to use it for watch HD movies is just too high.
Btw. the only reason HD movies take up 50gb at the moment (none of the really does anyway) is because they can be encoded in MPEG-2. If you allow HD rental in MP4 the size will become more like DVD size. Actually there were plans to use DVDs for HD, but they have been canceled for the craziness of the content industry.
The chances that you buy some hardware and that you will later not be able to use it for watch HD movies is just too high.
Btw. the only reason HD movies take up 50gb at the moment (none of the really does anyway) is because they can be encoded in MPEG-2. If you allow HD rental in MP4 the size will become more like DVD size. Actually there were plans to use DVDs for HD, but they have been canceled for the craziness of the content industry.
No they won't. 1080p H264 files with a surround sound track will be around 10GB. Who wants to download 10GB of data???
By the way, HD-DVD uses H264 because it doesn't have as much space as Blu-Ray (Althought it supports MPEG2 as well)...many Blu-Ray movies come in both flavors, especially Warner Bro's movies which just use the same HD-DVD files on Blu-Ray, which kinda sucks as they can up the bitrate for Blu-Ray.
Yes, still wasn't too impressed, it's so much hassle from a media point of view to make everything HD so i guess I'm already prejudice against it.
Most of the upgrades regarding licences need just firmware update. And these are just early adaptors problems, who are used to these and can handle them.
Next year when BD / HDDVD players became mainstream things have to settle down, otherwise manufacturers are going to get really expensive law cases where millions of consumers want their money back.
Reason for needing 40 Mbit/s is not mpeg2, but desire for high picture quality in scenes with lots of motion and/or rapid lighting changes. Demand for high quality has increased with high resolution digital displays, where even average consumers start to notice macroblocking and other compression artifacts especially with sd-dvd with its limited bandwidth.
Most of hd discs are already mp4 or vc1 and all future releases will be those very soon. More storage will be needed when digital cinema's 48 fps will become more mainstream and when all add-ons like making-of's will be hd also.
And like it was said before, most of the consumer will not be able to download easily amovie even with 10 Mbit/s average bandwith within this decade.
Although I don't own any hd-dvd movies I've been under impression that most of them are encoded in VC1, not h.264, because microsoft provides handy authoring tools and want to increase use of their codec.
Yes. It looks much sharper. And? So what?
In terms of viewer enjoyment, anything beyond DVD sharpness is well in to the very small diminishing returns range. I'm quite capable of discerning the differences between the output of a standard definition DVD and full blown 1080p high def output. But beyond the initial gee-whiz factor of the extra sharpness quickly subsides, the higher def doesn't translate into me enjoying what I'm watching any more than watching it on standard def.
And I'm definitely not alone.
If you watch it like traditionally tv has been watched; small screen & long distance = low angle field of vision.
Then again there are people who at least say that they experience same thing with their old small telly than in big screen cinema theather...
I'm with you there. Although noticeably better, the HD experience all feels a little underwhelming to me. Nothing like the leap between VHS and DVD, and nothing that I'd pay extra outlay for to enjoy. For me, the convenience that the smaller file sizes of SD DVDs provides in terms of digital storage over HD files far outweighs the lesser picture quality.
The same could be said of B&W to color. All I know is that seeing Blu Ray on a 1080p TV was amazing. The amount of detail is incredible.