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Which is faster/better: new dual 867 or old dual IG?
- Thread starter Rich 66
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without any benchmarks to see how well the DDR RAM kicks in, it's difficult to tell. With the bigger L3 cache on the old 1 GHz, it should be a lot faster though. If you can get the old 1 GHz cheap, i would go for it.
It's a toss up and depends on how you intend to use it, some operations will be slower some faster.
But you also get better internal expandability in the new machine, and for audio/video you'll have dual optical options.
Just rember that benchmarks can be run to make either machine seem faster.
In the case of the XServe vs Dual-1G they're neck and neck in single user operation - but does this mean the results will be similar if you hook up a test rig to hammer both machines with huge amounts internet traffic, most likely not.
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=5110932035
But you also get better internal expandability in the new machine, and for audio/video you'll have dual optical options.
Just rember that benchmarks can be run to make either machine seem faster.
In the case of the XServe vs Dual-1G they're neck and neck in single user operation - but does this mean the results will be similar if you hook up a test rig to hammer both machines with huge amounts internet traffic, most likely not.
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=5110932035
I would get the Dual 867!!! Why? You will get more for your money with it!!
Besides, there is more expandability with the Dual 867, because it has the new case!!!!! And if you Get more ram, you won't be able to tell the difference
Because it is DDR Ram
Besides, there is more expandability with the Dual 867, because it has the new case!!!!! And if you Get more ram, you won't be able to tell the difference
Because it is DDR Ram
i'm in the same boat...
been going back and forth over the specs and such...keep in mind that if you want the superdrive, that adds $200 to the 867 price...and if you want jaguar, that adds $100 to the old dual price...who knows if the ddr will make any diff but there are other speed bumps on the 867 such as the faster ata100 specs and such...i'm pretty clueless as to the technical side of things
( and life in general if you ask my wife...) so it is confusing.
i'm really torn between the two. btw, mine will be for audio apps( performer, reason, etc).
i'm leaning to the dual 867...much more expansion room...and hey, i like the case design( me and 1 other person...)
the site sun baked referenced has some interesting reads...
either way, its gonna scream compared to my beige g3
been going back and forth over the specs and such...keep in mind that if you want the superdrive, that adds $200 to the 867 price...and if you want jaguar, that adds $100 to the old dual price...who knows if the ddr will make any diff but there are other speed bumps on the 867 such as the faster ata100 specs and such...i'm pretty clueless as to the technical side of things
( and life in general if you ask my wife...) so it is confusing.
i'm really torn between the two. btw, mine will be for audio apps( performer, reason, etc).
i'm leaning to the dual 867...much more expansion room...and hey, i like the case design( me and 1 other person...)
the site sun baked referenced has some interesting reads...
either way, its gonna scream compared to my beige g3
Oh yeah? Let me lay some numbers on you and you tell me what you think. Having just bought a new 17" imac I'm reconsidering taking it back based on this:
I can buy tomorrow at my Apple store in town:
a new dual 867 for $1699
OR
a QS 933 (open box display model) with Superdrive for $1249 - 10%
OR
a new in box QS dual 1gz with superdrive, 80gb, 512mb RAM for $1949.
I'm leaning toward picking up the open box 933 and adding a 17" LCD. The dual sounds great put not for the $800 extra.
what do you all think?
(I would miss this wide display though, and no, I can't afford a cinema display!)
I can buy tomorrow at my Apple store in town:
a new dual 867 for $1699
OR
a QS 933 (open box display model) with Superdrive for $1249 - 10%
OR
a new in box QS dual 1gz with superdrive, 80gb, 512mb RAM for $1949.
I'm leaning toward picking up the open box 933 and adding a 17" LCD. The dual sounds great put not for the $800 extra.
what do you all think?
(I would miss this wide display though, and no, I can't afford a cinema display!)
Get the 933Mhz and the better monitor. It's the best value unless you're into heavy gaming or 3d rendering and such
i agree with topicolo... and then when the big dogs come out (if...) then grab one of them.
at this point, i've been really hit by some profound words by mymemory (who'd have thought???)... i don't know the quote or anything. but basically... if you're doing things where you at times have to render or let it work away and you can't do anything for x period of time... then it's better to have a second computer.
there's only so much that speed will cut down on say an fcp render. but if you have a second computer to turn to for whatever else needs to get done (ps work, email, gaming!, etc...) then you can always be productive
ahh. then again, if you don't do that ****e, you probably don't need the dual anyways.
at this point, i've been really hit by some profound words by mymemory (who'd have thought???)... i don't know the quote or anything. but basically... if you're doing things where you at times have to render or let it work away and you can't do anything for x period of time... then it's better to have a second computer.
there's only so much that speed will cut down on say an fcp render. but if you have a second computer to turn to for whatever else needs to get done (ps work, email, gaming!, etc...) then you can always be productive
ahh. then again, if you don't do that ****e, you probably don't need the dual anyways.
singles won't cut it for audio...
running audio apps with tons of plug-ins just kills the 933...my writing partner has one and, though it is fast, it pales in comparison to the amount of plug-ins you can run on the duals.
i figure its a much different process than video rendering since most audio people do one large "render" at the final mix -where every processor hit occurs simultaneously. theres no law thats says you can't "render" audio as you work but i don't know anyone who does it unless they don't have a choice (because of a slow/single cpu).
still looks like the dp867 for me.
running audio apps with tons of plug-ins just kills the 933...my writing partner has one and, though it is fast, it pales in comparison to the amount of plug-ins you can run on the duals.
i figure its a much different process than video rendering since most audio people do one large "render" at the final mix -where every processor hit occurs simultaneously. theres no law thats says you can't "render" audio as you work but i don't know anyone who does it unless they don't have a choice (because of a slow/single cpu).
still looks like the dp867 for me.
wrong comparison
the question should be which is faster, the quicksilver DP1ghz or the new DDR 1Ghz. My guess is the new Powermac will be about the same or slower because of the all important cache and because the both have the same thruput limit so ddr really doe it no good
the question should be which is faster, the quicksilver DP1ghz or the new DDR 1Ghz. My guess is the new Powermac will be about the same or slower because of the all important cache and because the both have the same thruput limit so ddr really doe it no good
IF I do return the imac I was leaning toward the 933 for two reasons - one is the price, the other is the superdrive. Having read ibook's impressions of the new 867 up close, now I'm now so sure! Decisions decisions. I keep thinking with the nearly $600 difference, I could pickup that new 20gb iPod instead!
Ahem.... guys, some benchmark results are in. And from the results, the old DP 1GHz is DEFINITELY faster than the new DDR dual 867MHz.
http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr.html
http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr.html
which should i get?
I was on Mac Zone.com , and I saw a cool deal on the old Pmacs, they go new not openbox , new 933 with superdrive, free 19in flat crt and free ram and printer for 14,940, they got the same thing on the dp 1ghz for 2,190. Should I get one of those or a new dp 867. I will be mostly playing warcraft 3, castle wolfenstien etc....... , and using audio recording programs for my guitar (also my band). so I will probably need a good computer do use all these programs efficently. What should I get??
I will be buying soon (within the next 3 weeks) so I can get it before the start of my first year in highschool.
-GaBe-
I was on Mac Zone.com , and I saw a cool deal on the old Pmacs, they go new not openbox , new 933 with superdrive, free 19in flat crt and free ram and printer for 14,940, they got the same thing on the dp 1ghz for 2,190. Should I get one of those or a new dp 867. I will be mostly playing warcraft 3, castle wolfenstien etc....... , and using audio recording programs for my guitar (also my band). so I will probably need a good computer do use all these programs efficently. What should I get??
I will be buying soon (within the next 3 weeks) so I can get it before the start of my first year in highschool.
-GaBe-
2MB l3CACHE
One reason the old 1GHZ is Equal or faster than the new IGHZ is because the ddr memory is not being utilized so in that regards its the same chip same memory bandwith. the new DP 1GHZ does get a very slight speed bump from the faster bus speed or it would have really been embarrased.
But the "SMOKING GUN" is that the old processor has 2MB L3 cache vs 1MB L3 Cache. and cache will trump modest bus speed every time!!
Given this the Dual 1.25 should be much more the 25% faster. more like 30-40.
I really wished apple would have given us 4MB L3cache across the board as rumored. any way its good upgrade a $1000 cheaper for the same performance with a few extras thrown in.
remember when the 733 came out it was only slightly faster than the 533 and not faster a somethings because the old g4 had 4 times the L2 cache and fewer pipelines.
this is also why a 500 TIbook can outperform a 667 firstrev book in the audio app Emagic Logic.
Until Apple fixes the ddr controller issue 1GB/s or dumps Moto we will not see the true power of this otherwise great motherboard and faster PCI slot 33mhz is 4 years old ata 133 soon so we can have almost a tyrabyte of storage. fire2 already. etc.
Still I might get the Dual 867 with cdrw. if I add super drive memory etc to spec like the old one gig it will cost as much as the $2199 asking price new
One reason the old 1GHZ is Equal or faster than the new IGHZ is because the ddr memory is not being utilized so in that regards its the same chip same memory bandwith. the new DP 1GHZ does get a very slight speed bump from the faster bus speed or it would have really been embarrased.
But the "SMOKING GUN" is that the old processor has 2MB L3 cache vs 1MB L3 Cache. and cache will trump modest bus speed every time!!
Given this the Dual 1.25 should be much more the 25% faster. more like 30-40.
I really wished apple would have given us 4MB L3cache across the board as rumored. any way its good upgrade a $1000 cheaper for the same performance with a few extras thrown in.
remember when the 733 came out it was only slightly faster than the 533 and not faster a somethings because the old g4 had 4 times the L2 cache and fewer pipelines.
this is also why a 500 TIbook can outperform a 667 firstrev book in the audio app Emagic Logic.
Until Apple fixes the ddr controller issue 1GB/s or dumps Moto we will not see the true power of this otherwise great motherboard and faster PCI slot 33mhz is 4 years old ata 133 soon so we can have almost a tyrabyte of storage. fire2 already. etc.
Still I might get the Dual 867 with cdrw. if I add super drive memory etc to spec like the old one gig it will cost as much as the $2199 asking price new
Don't let any Barefeats number depress you, they're just PEAK single action numbers and lack a lot of the reality for how you realy use these machines today under OS X - gone are the days when these tests had a basis in reality (OS 9).
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=9600944035
Of course there is always the possiblity that you will be running OS 9 all the time.
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=9600944035
Of course there is always the possiblity that you will be running OS 9 all the time.
is the case that you do more 3-D rendering would you suggest the new DP867MHZ or the old DP1GHZ
I'm struggling with the same question, DP867new or DP1GHZ old
I use my Mac to constantly run
Photoshop
Illustrator
Internet Explorer
Entourage
all at the same time
except when i do 3-D rendering and modeling with Cinema4D, then all I have open is Cinema4d with all my ram allocated to it.
??
what would you suggest
867
Your not going to see a big jump in speed goingwith the 1Ghz over the 867Mhz. I say get the 867 and take the extra money and load it with ram.
now, from a 867 to a 1.25.... thats a jump but for most people, even in audio, the 867 will speed thru it with the right amount of ram.
Your not going to see a big jump in speed goingwith the 1Ghz over the 867Mhz. I say get the 867 and take the extra money and load it with ram.
now, from a 867 to a 1.25.... thats a jump but for most people, even in audio, the 867 will speed thru it with the right amount of ram.
well, after a lot of thought and taking a trip to see the new dual 867...
i bought an eol quicksilver dual 1 ghz...
for $500.00 more i got 15% faster processors, superdrive, 1 gig of ram, larger hard drive, more level 3 cache and a quieter machine...seems like a deal to me. throw in another 80 gig barracuda for $119.00 and i'm a happy camper.
i really like the looks of the new units but they seem like a transitional release..like the YIKES.
i don't need dual opticals or jaguar...and the ddr seems a little questionable at this point.
now if i only had $$ for twin cinema displays instead of crts....
i bought an eol quicksilver dual 1 ghz...
for $500.00 more i got 15% faster processors, superdrive, 1 gig of ram, larger hard drive, more level 3 cache and a quieter machine...seems like a deal to me. throw in another 80 gig barracuda for $119.00 and i'm a happy camper.
i really like the looks of the new units but they seem like a transitional release..like the YIKES.
i don't need dual opticals or jaguar...and the ddr seems a little questionable at this point.
now if i only had $$ for twin cinema displays instead of crts....
The old PowerMac Dual 1Ghz is quicker. Just look at the cover article to the site. That says that the DDRAM does not make a difference + that the new dual 1ghz is the same speed (if not slower) as the old one (less cache etc)!! I say get an old style one which should be cheaper!
Most powerful, Least exspensive
Great Choice and when sonnet and powerlogix produce upgrades they will be compatable with your machine which have been out for awhile before the newer ones. You now have the fastest mac shipping at the lowest powermac price New and with full warranty
whats not to like.
when the ATI 9700 pro comes out and they lower the price of the gforce4 ti to around $200 you will be in Quartz Extreme Heaven
I really envy you
oh well back to my trusty PM 8600 I still need $1300 to get a dual 1GHZ
donations accepted
Great Choice and when sonnet and powerlogix produce upgrades they will be compatable with your machine which have been out for awhile before the newer ones. You now have the fastest mac shipping at the lowest powermac price New and with full warranty
whats not to like.
when the ATI 9700 pro comes out and they lower the price of the gforce4 ti to around $200 you will be in Quartz Extreme Heaven
I really envy you
oh well back to my trusty PM 8600 I still need $1300 to get a dual 1GHZ
donations accepted