Which Video Card for G5?

[vkapoormd]

I am about to order a 2.5 G5; my beside some intensive work with Photoshop, i will be doing some video editing with FCE. I don't really play any games, however. my question then is there a distinct advantage of the nvidia 9800 over the 9600 for my purposes.

 

[jsw]

I am about to order a 2.5 G5; my beside some intensive work with Photoshop, i will be doing some video editing with FCE. I don't really play any games, however. my question then is there a distinct advantage of the nvidia 9600 over the 9800 for my purposes.

FWIW: the 9600 Pro on my (Rev A) dual-2 works very well in those circumstances. The 9600 XT is even better. You don't really need to bump to anything higher for what you do with your system. Obviously, the 9800 XT is faster, and the 6800 Ultra, faster still. But you won't see the difference in your work.

 

[ChrisFromCanada]

$300 is a lot to pay for an upgrade you probably wont even notice. Go with the 9600 xt. Spend that $300 on a nice 10,000 rpm Hard Drive.

 

[slughead]

I like to keep my options open.

Keep in mind, Tiger will use the extra video card power for even simple video editing tasks.

The ATI 9800/9600 are from the previous generation of graphics card. The NVidia 6800 is twice as fast.

Yes, you wont need it now, but since the 6800 is only $300 extra when you buy it in a g5 (instead of $600), I'd recommend you buy it now. You wont regret it when tiger rolls around, but you might regret it until then .

 

[Littleodie914]

Yep...

I'd also recommend the 6800. While you may not REALLY use it now, it will help 3-4 years down the line, whereas the other cards would be growing grey hair... Plus, you're getting it half-price!

 

[jsw]

I like to keep my options open.

Keep in mind, Tiger will use the extra video card power for even simple video editing tasks.

The ATI 9800/9600 are from the previous generation of graphics card. The NVidia 6800 is twice as fast.

Yes, you wont need it now, but since the 6800 is only $300 extra when you buy it in a g5 (instead of $600), I'd recommend you buy it now. You wont regret it when tiger rolls around, but you might regret it until then .

Er, it's an extra $450 over the 9600XT. There's no reason to believe vkapoormd needs the power of even the 9800 XT. The 6800 would be overkill for him. He'd be better off spending that $450 on RAM and disk capacity, given his application usage.

 

[jsw]

I'd also recommend the 6800. While you may not REALLY use it now, it will help 3-4 years down the line, whereas the other cards would be growing grey hair... Plus, you're getting it half-price!

Dude, 3-4 years down the road, when he needs it, it'll cost $100.

 

[wdlove]

The main reason fro him to get the 6800 ultra would be if he wants the 30" Cinema Display. Then its a requirement.

 

[slughead]

Dude, 3-4 years down the road, when he needs it, it'll cost $100.

Some history:
http://www.welovemacs.com/nv.html

$300 for probably the best 4x AGP card, even though it's 2 years old.

We know prices don't go down much on video cards for mac.
--

Based on history, we can probably easily say that the 6800 is probably going to be the best card released before tiger.

By the time it comes out, it'll probably be more than $450 still, and thus buying now would be good.. barring some massive rise in inflation or something..

 

[slughead]

make sure to read the edited version of the previous post.

 

[jsw]

Based on history, we can probably easily say that the 6800 is probably going to be the best card released before tiger.

I'm not arguing that it's not a great card, or that $450 extra isn't a good price for it.

I'm just saying that he doesn't need it, nor likely will need it in the foreseeable future. Gamers "need" it. People with 30" screens need it. Others will be fine with the 9600 XT.

FWIW, I see no reason to get the 9800 XT. I figure either save the $$ and get the 9600 XT, or spend a little more (than the 9800 XT) on the 6800 Ultra. The 9800 XT isn't all that good a deal (and, usually, I tend to think the middle-of-the-line product is the best buy).

 

[slughead]

I'm not arguing that it's not a great card, or that $450 extra isn't a good price for it.

I'm just saying that he doesn't need it, nor likely will need it in the foreseeable future. Gamers "need" it. People with 30" screens need it. Others will be fine with the 9600 XT.

But what about tiger? we KNOW it'll use the extra power. Apple's using the GPUs in tiger to supplement regular processing power.

So basically, in tiger, the bigger the processor in the GPU, the larger the performance boost in things like video rendering and such.

In tiger, GPU will be almost as important as CPU in many tasks, and we know that buying the 6800 now will be cheaper than buying it later (provided we see the ATI's as useless once the video card has been replaced).

 

[vraxtus]

In tiger, GPU will be almost as important as CPU in many tasks, and we know that buying the 6800 now will be cheaper than buying it later (provided we see the ATI's as useless once the video card has been replaced).

I think you've got it reversed here. Regardless of the coming of age of the GPU, technology is continually improving... and with the soon advance towards 512MB+ video cards, there is absolutely no way in hell the 6800 will be more expensive in the future.

 

[slughead]

I think you've got it reversed here. Regardless of the coming of age of the GPU, technology is continually improving... and with the soon advance towards 512MB+ video cards, there is absolutely no way in hell the 6800 will be more expensive in the future.

Woops I should've specified in that statement that I meant after today, but before tiger.

Basically if you want GeForce 6800 power before tiger comes out, you'll have to buy the 6800.

And I still don't think the 6800 will EVER drop in price. Just look at the link I posted to the 4600. After 2 years it's still MSRP $400!

 

[vraxtus]

Woops I should've specified in that statement that I meant after today, but before tiger.

Basically if you want GeForce 6800 power before tiger comes out, you'll have to buy the 6800.

And I still don't think the 6800 will EVER drop in price. Just look at the link I posted to the 4600. After 2 years it's still MSRP $400!

Dude... you people really need to shop around before you post your "lowest price available."

http://www.megamacs.com/v1/index.php?cat=30004&find_only=&action=view&pid=2184588

Terrible... -_-

 

[jsw]

But what about tiger? we KNOW it'll use the extra power. Apple's using the GPUs in tiger to supplement regular processing power.

So basically, in tiger, the bigger the processor in the GPU, the larger the performance boost in things like video rendering and such.

In tiger, GPU will be almost as important as CPU in many tasks, and we know that buying the 6800 now will be cheaper than buying it later (provided we see the ATI's as useless once the video card has been replaced).

I understand that by "cheaper" you mean because you don't buy a different card, then swap it with the 6800 (see above posts - I don't think everyone got that).

However, there's no way - no way - that Tiger will require 6800-level processing. Yes, it will offload the CPU. But any CPU produced recently will be more than adequate to handle Tiger. For God's sake, my 1999 PB handles Panther just fine. I seriously doubt Tiger will look terrible on less-than-state-of-the-art graphics cards. In other words, it seems like you're suggesting that the new iMacs (not even introduced yet) and G5 PBs (out within the year) won't handle Tiger. I disagree. I think the 6800 is exclusively needed by those with 30" screens - and coveted by gamers. No one else will need that power for years.

 

[slughead]

Dude... you people really need to shop around before you post your "lowest price available."

Ok, not like we're getting off topic here or anything.

First off, I never said "lowest price available" was $400, nor even $300.

I said MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) was $400, and the $300 was taken from the first place I found that carried the card.

Moreover, how long did it take for them to lower prices? was it less than a year? because tiger will come out in less than a year.

According to this logic, I think buying the 6800 now will have a lower Opportunity Cost of buying it when tiger comes out.

 

[slughead]

However, there's no way - no way - that Tiger will require 6800-level processing. Yes, it will offload the CPU. But any CPU produced recently will be more than adequate to handle Tiger. For God's sake, my 1999 PB handles Panther just fine. I seriously doubt Tiger will look terrible on less-than-state-of-the-art graphics cards. In other words, it seems like you're suggesting that the new iMacs (not even introduced yet) and G5 PBs (out within the year) won't handle Tiger. I disagree. I think the 6800 is exclusively needed by those with 30" screens - and coveted by gamers. No one else will need that power for years.

Oh hold up, I thought you knew about Tiger's new features

http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/core.html

It doesn't matter what you need to DISPLAY, Tiger will use the GPU to actually DO NON-DISPLAY RELATED TASKS.

It's a great idea, especially since it justifies the 6800.

It's like having a 3rd processor for professional video rendering and stuff. Might as well make that processor the best one you can find.

 

[jsw]

According to this logic, I think buying the 6800 now will have a lower Opportunity Cost of buying it when tiger comes out.

Assuming you mean buying it as an upgrade with a new system as opposed to swapping out a card later, then granted. It'll cost more than $450 in six months or so. Of course, given that you could probably sell the 9600XT for at least $50 then, it'd have to cost > $500. Still, given that Apple's the only vendor (AFAIK), and given that Apple lowers prices less often that Bush has an intelligent thought, I think you're correct.

 

[jsw]

Oh hold up, I thought you knew about Tiger's new features

http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/core.html

It doesn't matter what you need to DISPLAY, Tiger will use the GPU to actually DO NON-DISPLAY RELATED TASKS.

It's a great idea, especially since it justifies the 6800.

It's like having a 3rd processor for professional video rendering and stuff. Might as well make that processor the best one you can find.

I don't dispute that it will help. I dispute only that it's worth an extra $450 to vkapoormd, given the other things he could spend that $450 on (namely, RAM) which would likely yield more benefit. Given unlimited funds, then, yes, go for the 6800.

 

[vraxtus]

Ok, not like we're getting off topic here or anything.

First off, I never said "lowest price available" was $400, nor even $300.

I said MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) was $400, and the $300 was taken from the first place I found that carried the card.

Moreover, how long did it take for them to lower prices? was it less than a year? because tiger will come out in less than a year.

According to this logic, I think buying the 6800 now will have a lower Opportunity Cost of buying it when tiger comes out.

Sorry, that was just an echo from this post:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/82286/

Anyhow, I'm aware what OC is... I am an Econ/Math major... Furthermore, if you want to speak economically, then you'd understand that competition will force prices down naturally... plus overall technological depreciation has a lowering effect as well. While the MSRP may still be relatively unchanged, only stupid companies that don't hope to sell the product (or prey on uninformed buyers) will maintain that price.

Personally I like to stay informed and not get screwed.

As for Tiger, regardless of how it implements GPU support, there is no way that the 6800 will remain price locked. I also disagree that the OC is lower now... how can it be lower if current performance is LESS than it WILL be??? If anything, when Tiger does come out, the Pr/Perf ratio will be much lower than it is today...

And just to specify that,

Price/Performance -> Perf increases when Tiger comes out -> Price/Performance goes down

 

[jsw]

Oh hold up, I thought you knew about Tiger's new features

http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/core.html

From that page:

System Requirements



The performance gains and features supported by Core Image ultimately depend on the graphics card. Graphics cards capable of pixel-level programming deliver the best performance. But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.


Supported graphics cards:


ATI Radeon 9800 XT

ATI Radeon 9800 Pro

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro

ATI Radeon 9600 XT

ATI Radeon 9600 Pro

ATI Mobility Radeon 9700

ATI Mobility Radeon 9600

NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra

NVIDIA GeForceFX Go 5200

NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 Ultra



These cards are available in today’s PowerBooks, Power Mac G5s and both the 17-inch and 20-inch iMac

Basically, any card you can buy in a mac today will support Tiger. You need to do a lot of work to prove that the 6800 Ultra will provide $450 worth of improvement - in Photoshop and video editing - over the 9600 XT, as opposed to $450 more RAM.

 

[slughead]

I don't dispute that it will help. I dispute only that it's worth an extra $450 to vkapoormd, given the other things he could spend that $450 on (namely, RAM) which would likely yield more benefit. Given unlimited funds, then, yes, go for the 6800.

Well that's a decision only he can make, but he should know for these applications, after tiger, the GeForce FX 6800 will be way more useful than the ATis. In addition, the cost will be higher later if he chooses to upgrade after Tiger comes out.

If it's a choice between RAM and the GeForce, I'd choose RAM because it'll benefit more now than later.

BTW I love the political corollary in the other post

 

[slughead]

Anyhow, I'm aware what OC is... I am an Econ/Math major... Furthermore, if you want to speak economically, then you'd understand that competition will force prices down naturally... plus overall technological depreciation has a lowering effect as well. While the MSRP may still be relatively unchanged, only stupid companies that don't hope to sell the product (or prey on uninformed buyers) will maintain that price.

My argument was that, historically, prices on video cards for mac don't go down quickly, and the newest of the new video cards take WAY too long to come out to be in time for Tiger.

The benefit is yet to be determined, but the price/performance ratio will stay the same AT LEAST for the next year, if history is any clue.

Now, I could be wrong, but history is probably on my side.

Yes, normally you'd be correct, but for some reason video cards made by Apple don't seem to lower in price quickly at all.

I maintain that the Macintosh video card market will not change for the before Tiger comes out.

Thus, to quote JSW:
Assuming you mean buying it as an upgrade with a new system as opposed to swapping out a card later, then granted. It'll cost more than $450 in six months or so. Of course, given that you could probably sell the 9600XT for at least $50 then, it'd have to cost > $500. Still, given that Apple's the only vendor (AFAIK), and given that Apple lowers prices less often that Bush has an intelligent thought, I think you're correct.

 

[jsw]

Well that's a decision only he can make, but he should know for these applications, after tiger, the GeForce FX 6800 will be way more useful than the ATis. In addition, the cost will be higher later if he chooses to upgrade after Tiger comes out.

If it's a choice between RAM and the GeForce, I'd choose RAM because it'll benefit more now than later.

BTW I love the political corollary in the other post

Cool. I didn't want you to think that I think that the 6800 sucks or anything - I covet it. But I'm not sure it's necessary for the original poster, that's all. He might never need to upgrade his Mac. He could just throw it away and get a new one.