Which would you choose? 15.4" vs 16"

[butterflyscisstor]

Which would you choose for general graphic design work with an occasional intense After Effects project assuming exact same cost? Both would have 3 year AppleCare.
​

2018 15.4"​	2019 16"​
2.9 GHz i9​	2.6 GHz i7​
Vega 20 GPU​	5300 M GPU​
32 GB RAM​	32 GB RAM​
1 TB SSD​	1 TB SSD​
Available now​	Better speakers​
​	Esc key & (hopefully) reliable kybd​
​	Available in ~1 month​

​

 

[phillyred79]

2019 16" hands down. The graphics card debate is Coke VS Pepsi even with your requirements. Hardcore, the Vega is ever so slightly better. The new speakers/screen/keyboard on the 16" are such nice everyday upgrades that I would miss them turning back.

 

[butterflyscisstor]

Thanks for chiming in I appreciate it.

I like the Coke vs Pepsi analogy - I will be moving from a PC with a RTX 2080 in it to whatever I get with the laptop, so I was concerned about any difference between the Vega 20 and 5300M.

I don't know much about i7 vs i9 architecture, but I know my workflow depends a lot on single core clock speed and this is what I could find:

Processor	Base / Turbo	GeekBench 5 SC	GB5 MultiCore
2018 i9	2.9—4.8 GHz	1,126	5,712
2019 i7	2.6—4.5 GHz	1,034	5,442

I wish I understood more what the ~100 or so difference between the GeekBench 5 Single Core scores means. If it means the processor in the 2018 would be about 8–10% faster for single core, that would be a big deal in my world. But I don't know how much weight I should give the GeekBench score...

 

[Howard2k]

16”. Wouldn’t even consider the 15” because of the keyboard.

 

[BootLoxes]

The 15” has keyboard and heating issues not present on the 16” model. For that alone you should never look at the older model

 

[butterflyscisstor]

16”. Wouldn’t even consider the 15” because of the keyboard.

Thanks for chiming in. It seems that when considering screen, keyboard, and speakers the 16" is the way to go. I have lucked out thus far with my butterfly keyboard on my 12" MacBook, so I forget that is so important to people who haven't had the same experience.

I'm still trying to determine if the speed difference would be anywhere close to 8% - if so, I would be tempted to go with the 2018 15.4" for the extra zip as well as for the more-tested hardware platform. Plus, there's the thought process that I might rather buy the 3rd revision of a MacBook architecture rather than the first after a major revision, especially given the issues 1st-gen MacBook Pros have suffered from basically forever.

I'm cracking myself up here, because I asked for advice and so far both votes have been for the 16", which is what I was leaning towards at first... but now I find myself thinking the 15" might be the way to go! LOL.
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The 15” has keyboard and heating issues not present on the 16” model. For that alone you should never look at the older model

The keyboard does present a risk. I believe the Vega models of 15" did not suffer from the same heating issues, but I will revisit that - thanks for the tip!

 

[Daniel L]

The thermal capacity of the 16" will likely make it faster than the 15" even with an inferior processor

 

[ascender]

The 15” has keyboard and heating issues not present on the 16” model. For that alone you should never look at the older model

Absolutely agree with this. I've had to go back to a 13" MBP after using a 16" for 5 weeks and the keyboard is absolutely atrocious by comparison.

 

[am2am]

Have been reading multiple reports on 2018 heavy thermal throttling - this alone would keep me away from that particular model.
I have seen 100 points fluctuations in geekbench score between two consecutive runs on my machine - I wouldn't base decision too much on geekbench. Real performance shouldn't be much different between MBP16 and 2018 model. You get lower turbo frequency, but faster memory, probably faster SSD etc.
If you can wait 1 month it's no brainier - MBP16 is better machine with better ROI.

 

[maflynn]

No brainer for me, the 16"
Why buy a laptop with a known defective keyboard?. I get that they have a repair program covering the keyboard, but that's just 4 years and even now, the 2016 model is close to rolling off that repair program.

 

[AustinIllini]

It's the 16". I'm not as big of a hater of the butterfly keyboard, but the thermal throttling is a significant problem in the old 15" models which seems to be resolved in the 16"

 

[butterflyscisstor]

Thanks to all of you for your feedback. I was definitely on the fence and expected a few fans of the 15" to chime in, but it is obvious from all of the feedback that the 16" is the way to go.

I asked because I expected the older model to get some love since it's retail price was insane and I figured there was some real power under the hood, but it seems there is no comparison between these two machines since everyone says the 16" is the way to go.

When I arrived to the office this AM, I placed the order for the 16" and the IT rep said I am the last to put in my order and that and no one wanted the 15" that was on-hand and has been collecting dust for a year.

I was provided the 2018 model 15" 2.9 i9 with Vega 20 to use until the 16" on order comes in, which I am enjoying as new tech is new tech!

I think they're hoping I will like it and keep it once I get set up, but I already hate the lack of an escape key so so so much more than expected.

That said, the speakers on this 2018 Vega model are fantastic. Like, unbelievable for a laptop. Everyone raves about the 16" speakers in comparison and I can't even fathom how much better they must be, because these are already amazing!

Thanks again for helping me choose the best machine to stare at for the next 3 years!

Absolutely agree with this. I've had to go back to a 13" MBP after using a 16" for 5 weeks and the keyboard is absolutely atrocious by comparison.

I am the odd duck who prefers the butterfly keyboard for typing experience, but I will admit I have been lucky and haven't had issues with my 12" MacBook keyboard from 2017.
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I get that they have a repair program covering the keyboard, but that's just 4 years and even now, the 2016 model is close to rolling off that repair program.

Just FYI, the 4 years starts from the first retail sale of the unit. So a brand new 2018 model purchased today *from an authorized Apple retailer* would have keyboard replacement through 2022 (I verified this with Apple).

The program supposedly includes the first retail sale of refurbs from the date you buy the refurb from Apple. Refurbs are given a new serial number and for all warranty purposes, Apple views the refurbs the same as a new model. Although I am confident this answer is correct based on my conversations with Apple reps, I would suggest getting that in writing if you're going with a refurb (direct from Apple only) and are concerned about keyboard.

 

[butterflyscisstor]

Have been reading multiple reports on 2018 heavy thermal throttling - this alone would keep me away from that particular model.
I have seen 100 points fluctuations in geekbench score between two consecutive runs on my machine - I wouldn't base decision too much on geekbench. Real performance shouldn't be much different between MBP16 and 2018 model. You get lower turbo frequency, but faster memory, probably faster SSD etc.
If you can wait 1 month it's no brainier - MBP16 is better machine with better ROI.

Good point on the faster memory, which does make a small difference in video work. It does seem that the consensus is that the speed difference will come out in the wash. Pretty amazing that Apple's 2018 highest end model (graphics/cpu anyway) is basically equally matched by the entry level late 2019 model that costs thousands less at retail...

Now that I have the 15.4" (see above), I plan on doing some thermal tests in the interest of figuring out if the Vega 20 15.4" models suffer from throttling. I found numerous reports that the Vega-equipped 2018 and 2019 models have a revised thermal design and might perform better than the 5xx and 5xxX GPU models.

 

[jerryk]

Owned the 2018 15" and a 2019 16". 16" is better in every way.

 

[butterflyscisstor]

Owned the 2018 15" and a 2019 16". 16" is better in every way.

Thanks, that is very helpful! Have you noticed if the backlighting on the keyboard works before login on the 16"?

That is the most confusing change on this 2018 15" - I have to type in my long password with no backlighting, as the TouchBar and backlighting don't work until after I've logged in. I sure hope they fixed that on the 16"

 

[Howard2k]

I sure hope they fixed that on the 16"

Nope. This isn't an issue with the 15" or 16" specifically, it's to do with the way macOS handles the encryption. Seems like it would be easy enough all the same, but...

 

[jerryk]

Thanks, that is very helpful! Have you noticed if the backlighting on the keyboard works before login on the 16"?

That is the most confusing change on this 2018 15" - I have to type in my long password with no backlighting, as the TouchBar and backlighting don't work until after I've logged in. I sure hope they fixed that on the 16"

No backlight or Touchbar before login. I believe this is just how the T2 systems are designed since the T2 chip controls the Touchbar, encryption, and other functions. So the T2 has to authenticate before they bring the core systems up.

 

[simonmet]

As someone who never had to endure or get used to the Butterfly keyboard, my new 16” keyboard feels great. It’s very reminiscent of the 15” from 2015 overall. The marginally bigger screen and ginormous trackpad I’m not noticing much after a short while. The sound I’ve yet to experience but I think I’ll appreciate that the most.

 

[butterflyscisstor]

Well, after two workdays of heavy use due to installing and transferring things plus wanting to put it through the paces, the 15” is impressing me.

First, the subjective: I like the butterfly keyboard more than the alternatives (knock wood mine doesn’t fail now)

Objectively: I have been keeping an eye on Intel Power Gadget and iStat and the 2018 i9 2.9 Vega seems to be doing a great job of maintaining about 3.2 GHz average during extended rendering (20 mins), or closer to 3.8 GHz average during shorter bursts of heavy processing (like a 1 minute batch photo process).

I may just keep it - now that I have had a chance to see how it performs, it seems to be faster in my use cases than I am seeing reported on the 16” 2.7 i7.

Further, I’m sold some in the office with new 16” are having early adopter headaches with their external displays. And from what I can tell, the 16” screen looks different. Not bad, but different. Maybe bad. It reminds me of looking at a Kodak print up close. Like, very good, but you can’t quite focus and it is missing some contrast. I don’t know how to describe it, but the screen was different enough on the 16” that it caught my attention.

 

[butterflyscisstor]

Well, after spending time with the 15.6" and the 16", I definitely prefer the 15.6" - My typical use is Adobe Creative Suite (Illustrator mostly, plus PS and After Effects), Apple apps, Spotify, and web browsing

The 16" has amazing speakers, and I will miss them a lot - but everything else about the 16" felt like a step down compared to the 2018 i9 Vega 20

The backlighting on the keyboard on the 16" is annoyingly bright and distractingly blue, and you can't dim it nearly enough (even though the keys can be dimmed further as shown by the dim-to-off animation). Also, I missed the butterfly keys right away - I know that's subjective. I thought the Esc key on the 16" would solve all my issues with the touch bar, but it really didn't.

There are other small changes - like, the actual feeling of the metal case is velvety and amazing on the 15.6", but noticeably rougher on the 16". The 15" feels like a luxury product, the 16" feels like a nice computer. I wish I could explain it better, but my experience of going from a Windows desktop to a 2018 15.6" and then to a 16" was an interesting experience because I noticed all the changes.

I have had a significant increase in crashes on the 16" running my regular software - Adobe, some indy Mac apps - even built in Apple apps have been crashing regulalry on the 16" -- it reminds me of what design workflows were like back in the mid-2000s... if you don't save every fifteen minutes, you'll find yourself losing work at least a few times a week. I had the weird TrueTone display issue that is widely reported on the 16" after sleep, too - and not even the latest update fixed that.

But the actual kicker was that the screen on the 16" is awful. It looks to me like the screen is being run at an in-between resolution - no matter which scaling factor I choose in settings. Compared to the 15.4", the 16" is objectively worse at the Eizo monitor test pattern, with the 16" showing actual complete lines of wrong-color pixels in the corner crosses on the test pattern that is completely obvious even for a layperson to see. I didn't notice the issue others said about smearing, but I didn't feel the screen ever looked completely clear and I noticed my eyes hurt when I used the 16"

When Apple essentially dropped the price with the release of the 16", I wondered what had to give. I hope the next refresh of the 16" restores the level of refinement on the later 15.4" models, especially with the screen quality.

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

The 16" has amazing speakers, and I will miss them a lot - but everything else about the 16" felt like a step down compared to the 2018 i9 Vega 20

I, actually, prefer the 15" speakers.

 

[Jacoblee23]

I, actually, prefer the 15" speakers.

I felt the same way when watching a review on YouTube but thought it was just my imagination or the video or something. I have a 2019 15" and think the speakers are fantastic. I don't really care about all the negative towards the 15" 2019. My machine is super fast, I like the keyboard, and have the keyboard replacement plan and AppleCare plus on it. It will be my main driver for years to come.

 

[nicho]

It looks to me like the screen is being run at an in-between resolution - no matter which scaling factor I choose in settings.

Surely by design, if you choose a scaling factor you're running the screen at an in-between resolution?

 

[Marsikus]

Again i see some complaints about 16" screen clearness. This makes me doubtful about purchase.

 

[butterflyscisstor]

I, actually, prefer the 15" speakers.

I can see why you would say this. The audio stage separation on the 16" is different, and perhaps it is a subjective thing. However, once my ears adjusted to the 16" sound, I definitely missed it going back to the 15"

Now that I haven't used the 16" for a few days, I'm sitting here using the 15" and the speakers are great, but I know the same song would sound a lot better on the 16" - at least to my ears.

I don't really care about all the negative towards the 15" 2019. My machine is super fast, I like the keyboard, and have the keyboard replacement plan and AppleCare plus on it.

Great to hear! So many people seem totally thrilled with the 16" - but given that I never have had any issues with my butterfly keyboards over the years, and because I don't like the screen on the 16", I am just glad the 15" are available at better prices now. If I hadn't been using the 15.4" for a while before my 16" arrived, I might not know what I was missing out on. From what I have learned, it seems Apple fixed the throttling issues on the 2018 Vega models and the problems aren't an issue on the 2019 models, but the bad reputation that started in 2015 and continued to 2017 stayed with the later models, even though Apple had made big changes internally.

Surely by design, if you choose a scaling factor you're running the screen at an in-between resolution?

Unless I'm confused, Apple is running all of their retina panels at an "in-between" resolution. For example, the actual panel resolution on the 15.4" is 2880×1800, but the highest resolution in OS X System Prefs under display is 1920x1200. The default setting on the 15.4" is 1680x1050. On the 15", any of the top 3 scaling options still look sharp and don't have color bleeding. On the 16", you can easy see how entire lines of pixels are blending and causing color blending on the 16" in apps like Illustrator which feature thin lines. I have never before experienced this on a Mac and was shocked at Apple's poor choices on scaling. I think this is the main thing people who don't like the screen are noticing.

Again i see some complaints about 16" screen clearness. This makes me doubtful about purchase.

I will say I was one of the people who felt like the 16" screen looked different right away, but it wasn't until I used it more than a week that the eye strain and annoyance with the screen became so annoying that I switched back to the 15.4" and immediately felt better. I also realized I liked the overall refinement and feel of the keyboard, top case, and overall weight and size of the 15"

It is a minor difference, but if I was on the fence between a new 16" and an older 15.4" ... I would definitely buy a 2018 Vega 20 model or a 2019 with the upgraded cooling. If I was buying again right now, I would grab it new or certified 15.4" from an authorized Apple dealer, get AppleCare, and you're all set for 3 years overall / 4 for the keyboard. Given the trouble people have faced, I expect keyboard parts and top case with battery to be available for a really long time for these models.

Here's how I figured out what I think my issue with the 16" screen is: https://www.eizo.be/monitor-test/ - if you click play on the first test (Test Pattern), my 16" had obvious color bleed/aberrations on the 3 + signs in the corners, plus the vertical and horizontal barcode patterns showed color bleeding when it should have just been black and white. This is also visible in programs like Illustrator where you can draw 1 pixel wide lines - I think it is the antialiasing of the retina in-between resolutions on the 16" results in a horrible experience for me.