Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Who's To Blame?

K

King Cobra

macrumors 603
Original poster
Mar 2, 2002
5,403
0
As we know, Motorola could not supply the new chips to prevent Apple from having to resort to overclocking their current 1GHz chips as we now know in these PowerMacs. However, it appears as if Motorola is not the only source for Apple's chips. We know about IBM and the Power4, but Apple hasn't dropped Motorola to go with IBM yet.

So who is to blame for the slow progress of faster PowerMacs?

[I think this fault is from Motorola. It's their job to supply the computer chips for Apple to use, because they make the chips. If they can't do their job, they shouldn't even exist.]
 
Before we start flame wars on this we should have a littke background info, Apple's history with Moto and IBM, long-term contracts, agreements, secret handshakes and stuff like that. C'mon people, we need to know! Well, not really, but it sure as hell would be nice.:)
 
Blame Apple...

Motorola not keeping pace is not a new development; the writing has been on the walls for close to 4 years; in all of this time, I've kept thinking that Apple MUST be working on a solution. And still, nothing has come.

To blame Motorola for this is entirely pointless; if Apple wants to survive, only Apple can make the decisions needed to solve this issue. And, Steve has seemingly refused to take any stands relative to the processor issue.

What's worse, in my opinion, is that I now believe that Steve does not care about the processor issue. He has decided that his market is consumers, not Pros. So, his working theory is incrementalism. In other words, why make a 50% speed increase, when I could make 2 increases of 25% each.

In general, many consumers don't care about Ghz, so, Steve has decided not to care much either. We'll not see any drastic changes in architecture at any one time; that would defeat several sales bumps by combining them into one.

In the meantime, we "pros" who need and rely on raw power will continue to fall further and further behind the intel world.

Steve has recognized that switching is much more difficult for us, so he's banking we'll hang around regardless of how little improvement we see in the situation.
 
Re: Blame Apple...

Originally posted by Timothy
What's worse, in my opinion, is that I now believe that Steve does not care about the processor issue. He has decided that his market is consumers, not Pros. So, his working theory is incrementalism. In other words, why make a 50% speed increase, when I could make 2 increases of 25% each.
Click to expand...

i hear what you're saying

but then why all the pro apps coming out? it would be absurd to not support them... at least at some point...
 
Re: Blame Apple...

Originally posted by Timothy
What's worse, in my opinion, is that I now believe that Steve does not care about the processor issue. He has decided that his market is consumers, not Pros.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this statement, based on the aquisitions apple has made over the last year (obviously looking at the pro software parket), and th fact that a majority of apple's profits come from the pro line. I think they would make a bigger jump in processor speeds if they were available, but they aren't. going to a different processor takes time and coordination, but it will happen in some form or another (whether it be an IBM or moto G5). Apple does care about its pro users, and would like to make everything faster I'm sure. its a matter of reality, and teh reality is that the G4 as it stands now just isn't scaling particularly well. That said, apple did just give a 25% increase in speeds. If they keep that up, they'll be doing well in the future.
 
Actually it's all my fault, I was supposed to deliver the real chips a week ago, but I misplaced them somewhere so Apple didnt really have a choice. Sorry.

-richard
www.osx.has.it
 
Re: Who's To Blame?

Originally posted by King Cobra
As we know, Motorola could not supply the new chips to prevent Apple from having to resort to overclocking their current 1GHz chips as we now know in these PowerMacs. However, it appears as if Motorola is not the only source for Apple's chips. We know about IBM and the Power4, but Apple hasn't dropped Motorola to go with IBM yet.

So who is to blame for the slow progress of faster PowerMacs?

[I'll edit this post after this thread gets some decent responses to contribute my feelings. Also, I cannot create a poll right now, as there seems to be no option for them.]
Click to expand...
Apple hasn't overclocked anything. I can almost guarentee that the chips inside the new dual-gig are rated for 1ghz. So how's that overclocked?

BTW, Apple's mostly to blame. If GM can't keep up with Lumina production because Yamaha screwed up an engine order, who's to blame? GM can blame Yamaha all day long, but in the end, it's GM that will be hurting.

NOTE-I just used "Lumina" and "Yamaha" as an example.
 
Re: Re: Who's To Blame?

Originally posted by ftaok
Apple hasn't overclocked anything. I can almost guarentee that the chips inside the new dual-gig are rated for 1ghz. So how's that overclocked?

BTW, Apple's mostly to blame. If GM can't keep up with Lumina production because Yamaha screwed up an engine order, who's to blame? GM can blame Yamaha all day long, but in the end, it's GM that will be hurting.

NOTE-I just used "Lumina" and "Yamaha" as an example.
Click to expand...

Apple's design does seem to be pushing the system bus from 133 MHz to 167 on two of the new machines as well as the 1.00 GHz being pushed to 1.25. These do not seem to be new increments of the processor, just better quality processors that are tested to 1.25 GHz.

It is up to Apple to meet their production by managing suppliers properly. If a car manufacturer had trouble getting engines, either they would complain or make "Limited Edition" badges.

Btw, it was Ford using the Yamaha engines. GM was going to use Suzuki as a supplier. :)
 
Originally posted by King Cobra
>Apple hasn't overclocked anything. I can almost guarentee that the chips inside the new dual-gig are rated for 1ghz. So how's that overclocked?

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9482&overclocked+1.25GHz

I must have seen it several other places, but I searched and can't find them.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've seen where other forum members have commented that they are overclocked, but that doesn't mean it's true. Apple would be setting themselves up for lots of warranty claims if they put in overclocked chips.

Here's what I see. The current 7455 is rated for 1ghz. The newest dual-gig has 1ghz chips inside. How is that overclocked? Yeah, the bus multiplier was changed (lowered), but still is that overclocking?

The new dual-1.25ghz isn't even available yet. Perhaps in 6-8 weeks time, Motorola will get the 7455 up to a 1.25ghz rating or the 7470 will be available. Even in this situation, it won't be an overclocked G4.

I'm 99.99999% sure that Apple will not release a mac that has a chip running at a higher frequency than it's rated for. That would be asinine.
 
Re: Re: Re: Who's To Blame?

Originally posted by bousozoku
Apple's design does seem to be pushing the system bus from 133 MHz to 167 on two of the new machines as well as the 1.00 GHz being pushed to 1.25. These do not seem to be new increments of the processor, just better quality processors that are tested to 1.25 GHz.
Click to expand...
Right. That's what I'm getting at. People are taking shots at Apple and Motorola by saying that the new machines are overclocked. Sort of implying that they're hack jobs. That's not true and Apple would never do that, let alone Motorola allowing them.

It is up to Apple to meet their production by managing suppliers properly. If a car manufacturer had trouble getting engines, either they would complain or make "Limited Edition" badges.

Btw, it was Ford using the Yamaha engines. GM was going to use Suzuki as a supplier. :)
Click to expand...
Right again. I had a brain fart on that one and couldn't keep my Taurus' and Luminas straight.
 
ftaok, I am not saying you're wrong, but think about it. The 1GHz version PowerMac released in Jan. did not have all these air vents and stuff, but it did have all these fans. There had to be a reason for the big air vents on the front and the jungle on the back of the new PowerMac.

>Here's what I see. The current 7455 is rated for 1ghz. The newest dual-gig has 1ghz chips inside. How is that overclocked? Yeah, the bus multiplier was changed (lowered), but still is that overclocking?

I think you may be somewhat confused. I am not talking about the 1GHz model, but the 1.25GHz model. IF the chips used for that are the rumored 7455 that would be overclocked.
 
Originally posted by King Cobra
ftaok, I am not saying you're wrong, but think about it. The 1GHz version PowerMac released in Jan. did not have all these air vents and stuff, but it did have all these fans. There had to be a reason for the big air vents on the front and the jungle on the back of the new PowerMac.

>Here's what I see. The current 7455 is rated for 1ghz. The newest dual-gig has 1ghz chips inside. How is that overclocked? Yeah, the bus multiplier was changed (lowered), but still is that overclocking?

I think you may be somewhat confused. I am not talking about the 1GHz model, but the 1.25GHz model. IF the chips used for that are the rumored 7455 that would be overclocked.
Click to expand...
King,

That's exactly what I'm saying. Since the dual-1.25ghz isn't even out, how does anyone know what's inside.

The only way that I'll be convinced that the dual-1.25ghz is overclocked is if someone opens it up and 1ghz is stamped on it. And that is if it's a 7455. In 6-8 weeks time, perhaps Motorola will have 7455's rated at 1.25ghz, in which case, it's not an overclocked chip.

Or they could be 7470's (dreaming???).
 
I have been using Macs professionally since 1986 and have gotten used to the lag (as opposed to PCs) in speed upgrades. I do believe this will likely changed based on two points. One -- the recent acquisitions of professional video programs that will demand speed. And second, the switch campaign which must ultimately deliver on what it is promising. Eventually PC users will ask, how about games? Are Macs fast enough to play demanding graphic-based games?

While I am disappointed with the recent offering of the G4's unveiled this week, I believe January will be a whole new line of faster, quietier Macs. I continue to be optimistic as I have been since 1986.
 
Originally posted by King Cobra
ftaok, I am not saying you're wrong, but think about it. The 1GHz version PowerMac released in Jan. did not have all these air vents and stuff, but it did have all these fans. There had to be a reason for the big air vents on the front and the jungle on the back of the new PowerMac.

>Here's what I see. The current 7455 is rated for 1ghz. The newest dual-gig has 1ghz chips inside. How is that overclocked? Yeah, the bus multiplier was changed (lowered), but still is that overclocking?

I think you may be somewhat confused. I am not talking about the 1GHz model, but the 1.25GHz model. IF the chips used for that are the rumored 7455 that would be overclocked.
Click to expand...

Which of us can say that Apple didn't expect 1.5 GHz processors and a lot of heat or that this case design is for the future?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back