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Why Apple didn't bring out a tablet
- Thread starter Zaid
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You don't think that if Jobs set his design team loose on a tablet that he could make it successful?
This is even more of a reason for Apple to get involved -- no one else can get it right-- just like the mp3 market before the ipod.
One of the things that I don't understand about Jobs stance on this is his comment that people need keyboards. Correct me if I am wrong... but why does it have to be one or the other?
I don't see it as one or the other... I just want the option to be able to draw something with pen input when taking notes or just navigate on the screen IF you want to do that.
It is much more natural considering that you don't have a access to a mouse when on the go with a laptop.
This is even more of a reason for Apple to get involved -- no one else can get it right-- just like the mp3 market before the ipod.
One of the things that I don't understand about Jobs stance on this is his comment that people need keyboards. Correct me if I am wrong... but why does it have to be one or the other?
I don't see it as one or the other... I just want the option to be able to draw something with pen input when taking notes or just navigate on the screen IF you want to do that.
It is much more natural considering that you don't have a access to a mouse when on the go with a laptop.
Significant this is:
The TabletPC is not dead. Not yet. Remember, laptops took a long time to become accepted as "real" computers too.
Without any new advertising, sales are going back up. The initial MS hype is gone now, and sales slacked. New hardware (better proc and better battery life) is announced, and sales start going back up.
The TabletPC is not dead. Not yet. Remember, laptops took a long time to become accepted as "real" computers too.
i think the tablet PC will go the way of the video phone (for home use, not video conferencing stuff): an idea that can be made to sound good and get brought back up again and again but never successful.
people who need to input by hand (drawing) will buy an external input device. the benefit of being able to input by hand into a laptop on the go is probably not worth the premium for most users. there'll always be some who need such function, but it's probably not enough to justify mass production.
most of us can type faster than writing, so the idea of using a tablet to take notes is a joke. also, since there's no "eraser," it's cumbersome to use. case in point: do you see anyone taking notes with stylus on a palm? it's not exactly the same, but would you take notes with your hands when you could type instead?
sure, you can have both keyboard and the tablet... but it'll be priced higher than keyboard only laptops. again, most people won't be able to justify spending more for a function they can't see themselves using much...
people who need to input by hand (drawing) will buy an external input device. the benefit of being able to input by hand into a laptop on the go is probably not worth the premium for most users. there'll always be some who need such function, but it's probably not enough to justify mass production.
most of us can type faster than writing, so the idea of using a tablet to take notes is a joke. also, since there's no "eraser," it's cumbersome to use. case in point: do you see anyone taking notes with stylus on a palm? it's not exactly the same, but would you take notes with your hands when you could type instead?
sure, you can have both keyboard and the tablet... but it'll be priced higher than keyboard only laptops. again, most people won't be able to justify spending more for a function they can't see themselves using much...
Aren't artists one of apples major target markets though?
I can only speak for myself here... but I am a PC user and have been feeling swayed towards apple recently. Hypothetically, if Apple was to make their 17 inch laptop with tablet functionality I would go mac and never come back (if it incoperated an OLED screen I would get a mac tattoo lol).
You wont see a tablet from apple for a long time. Of laptops maybe 5% of there sales are tablets.. When apple only has a 5% market share to begin with, they just cant ship enough tablets to make it worth while.
Firstly, I don't think that this is a good reason to get involved. There really isn't much of a market for tablets. And I don't think there is anything that Applec can do to "get it right".
And if you want the option to be able to draw on the screen with pen input, then just buy a Fugitsu. They've been doing it for years, and are still the best at pen-based computing.
I just don't understand why there isn't more demand for a mac laptop with pen input capabilities.
I believe there are 2 things at work here:
1. I feel that because Apple wasn't the first one to roll out a laptop with pen input capability and that Bill Gates is the one pushing it, Mac faithfuls are revolting against "tablets" for this reason alone.
If Jobs had come out with a "tablet" people on this message board would be hailing it as a modern miracle.
Mac faithfuls feel that if Jobs and co. didn't think of it before Gates and co. 'how could it possibly be worth doing?'.
I believe many also feel that Because Apple came out with the Newton years ago when the technology wasnt there yet that it cannot possibly work now.
2. Because Jobs hasn't sold this idea to Mac faithfuls many do not understand the significance of this and its future potential.
There are so many possibilities with this kind of system to create a more intimate, responsive and varied way of interfacing with your computer. It hasn't even been explored yet.
Imagine the pen creating tactile sensations to give the user more feedback as to what they are manipulating on the screen.
Imagine also using hand gestures while your hand is above the screen to make certain commands.
Combine this with voice recognition, even with its limitations, and you have an entirely new language that can be created to interface with your computer more efficiently, precisely and naturally.
Most importanly... you can do all of this AND still incorperate a keyboard.
All of these things working together creates more options for the user to interface with the computer.
And last but not least... ask yourself this... who better to do this than Jobs and co.?
I believe there are 2 things at work here:
1. I feel that because Apple wasn't the first one to roll out a laptop with pen input capability and that Bill Gates is the one pushing it, Mac faithfuls are revolting against "tablets" for this reason alone.
If Jobs had come out with a "tablet" people on this message board would be hailing it as a modern miracle.
Mac faithfuls feel that if Jobs and co. didn't think of it before Gates and co. 'how could it possibly be worth doing?'.
I believe many also feel that Because Apple came out with the Newton years ago when the technology wasnt there yet that it cannot possibly work now.
2. Because Jobs hasn't sold this idea to Mac faithfuls many do not understand the significance of this and its future potential.
There are so many possibilities with this kind of system to create a more intimate, responsive and varied way of interfacing with your computer. It hasn't even been explored yet.
Imagine the pen creating tactile sensations to give the user more feedback as to what they are manipulating on the screen.
Imagine also using hand gestures while your hand is above the screen to make certain commands.
Combine this with voice recognition, even with its limitations, and you have an entirely new language that can be created to interface with your computer more efficiently, precisely and naturally.
Most importanly... you can do all of this AND still incorperate a keyboard.
All of these things working together creates more options for the user to interface with the computer.
And last but not least... ask yourself this... who better to do this than Jobs and co.?
comparing tablets to mp3 is a bit premature...
there's nothing on the ipod restricting apple to make it available for <5% of the market. with tablet, unless apple wants to get into making tablet for a pc, there is such a limit.
with ipod, what apple took advantage of is the fact there was no device that could hold so much music in such a small volume. this was a HUGE advantage compared to what's available: cd/tape/md players...
for tablet, the basic function is the same as desktop/laptop. difference is an elaborate exotic input method. that's not really revolutionary, nor is there anything to really revolutionize.
i wouldn't jump to conclusion as "apple don't want to get in because MS is the first to push it..." crap. apple is good at making things people didn't know they wanted. that is innovation. making a solution to a problem that's basically nonexistent is simply a waste of money. find one killer application that practically requires a pen-input and tablet will take off. until then, it's an iffy invention at best.
there's nothing on the ipod restricting apple to make it available for <5% of the market. with tablet, unless apple wants to get into making tablet for a pc, there is such a limit.
with ipod, what apple took advantage of is the fact there was no device that could hold so much music in such a small volume. this was a HUGE advantage compared to what's available: cd/tape/md players...
for tablet, the basic function is the same as desktop/laptop. difference is an elaborate exotic input method. that's not really revolutionary, nor is there anything to really revolutionize.
i wouldn't jump to conclusion as "apple don't want to get in because MS is the first to push it..." crap. apple is good at making things people didn't know they wanted. that is innovation. making a solution to a problem that's basically nonexistent is simply a waste of money. find one killer application that practically requires a pen-input and tablet will take off. until then, it's an iffy invention at best.
just out of curiosity, do you own a segway, iSegway?
if you do, i wouldn't be surprised to find some correlations between tablet purchasers and segway purchasers. at this point, it's a novel toy for the rich.
in the future, with a killer app, tablet may take off. but until then, it's too big a risk for a company such as apple to invest in it. in fact, you yourself said it best:
"If Jobs had come out with a "tablet" people on this message board would be hailing it as a modern miracle."
if we think jobs is as brilliant as we believe (or you make us seem to believe), the fact he is passive about tablets says volume about the tablet's potential (or the lack thereof) rather than any shortcoming of apple.
if you do, i wouldn't be surprised to find some correlations between tablet purchasers and segway purchasers. at this point, it's a novel toy for the rich.
in the future, with a killer app, tablet may take off. but until then, it's too big a risk for a company such as apple to invest in it. in fact, you yourself said it best:
"If Jobs had come out with a "tablet" people on this message board would be hailing it as a modern miracle."
if we think jobs is as brilliant as we believe (or you make us seem to believe), the fact he is passive about tablets says volume about the tablet's potential (or the lack thereof) rather than any shortcoming of apple.
No. lol I don't. That was just a joke, I think the Segway looks like an apple product, design wise. The Segway and tablet are similar though. They are both flawed in their current forms. They need to be refined to become successful. Interesting comparison.
I don't understand the risk? It isn't like they are changing gears and making an apple car. Jobs said he has all the technology to do it(at least a strong base to work off of). I don't think an app has anything to do with it. The whole idea is to make interacting with any app more intimate and intuitive. The inability to easily take a mouse with you makes it a no brainer IMO.
I think Jobs made a huge mistake in this... for whatever reason he missed the boat on this one. And I think his ego is really hurting him here. He even seems to think that because he didn't think of bringing about this revolution his response to it is that it just won't work.
My gut tells me that he has to be reconsidering it. I remember that recent release of the 17 inch laptop and the crowd just waiting for him to unveil an apple tablet. I remember all the speculation on this site for such a device. It even seemed to me that Jobs was embarrased to not have something more innovative... Just a conventional laptop. A beautifully refined conventional laptop, but nothing near as innovative as the tablet.
Don't get me wrong... maybe I came off a little adversarial in my post. Sounding like Macfaithfuls are zealots or something. But you have to admit that there is some truth to the statement that macfaithfuls do tend to give jobs the benefit of the doubt and demonize gatesand his agenda.
Maybe that doesn't account for all of it. Maybe I am wrong and the tablet will never work. I just really don't see how that is possible and no one has made a convincing argument to me as to why it shouldn't be done by apple.
The same reason that apple was so successful with the design of the Ipod is the same reason they would be ideal to design a perfected tablet.
Originally posted by yzedf
100% same as it is now.
I think you need to re-phrase your question...
I thought that there were some hard drive based mp3 players out there before? Archos, right? It didn't see near the success that the Ipod did.
IMO, some kind of improvement for interfacing with computers is LONG over do. This may not be the end-all-be-all but it would and is providing great options for interfacing with your computer.
It isn't a matter of a problem, it is a matter of evolution. This is about improving things. This is about efficiency and intuitiveness.
If you havn't noticed, adapting to computers interface can be very difficult for people at first. This just illustrates why it needs to be refined and how counter-intuitive it really is. It is also easy to see how something that can be so difficult to adjust to at first is probably not the most efficient way to do it even after you have adjusted to it. What i mean is that I don't think people realize how much that the current method of interacting with their computers decreases productivity.
just about the ipod... the reason apple succeeded is not because they were the first to make a HD mp3 player. it's because they created a very elegant and functioning machine. firewire transfer and iTunes integration played a very big role in the success of ipod.
as we all know, first to make something doesn't always equate to success.
i've never used archos, so my opinion above is obviously and admittedly biased and ignorant. but i stand with my statement that the first to invent something doesn't guarantee success...
(did archos use usb to transfer? goodness, that would be slow...)
i am not here to make enemies...
i agree 100% with your statement on the need to innovate the interfacing methods. but i am not sure if apple can afford to invest in setting up the manufacturing, distributing and marketing a tablet... even r&d won't cost much to them, if jobs is to be believed on that account...
of course i am a mac zealot. if jobs had invented a tablet, i'd think it's so cool...
as we all know, first to make something doesn't always equate to success.
i've never used archos, so my opinion above is obviously and admittedly biased and ignorant. but i stand with my statement that the first to invent something doesn't guarantee success...
(did archos use usb to transfer? goodness, that would be slow...)
i am not here to make enemies...
i agree 100% with your statement on the need to innovate the interfacing methods. but i am not sure if apple can afford to invest in setting up the manufacturing, distributing and marketing a tablet... even r&d won't cost much to them, if jobs is to be believed on that account...
of course i am a mac zealot. if jobs had invented a tablet, i'd think it's so cool...