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Why does Apple care if you pirate an old version of OSX?

mrsir2009

mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Original poster
Sep 17, 2009
7,505
156
Melbourne, Australia
Hey, I was just wondering: Why does Apple care if you pirate an old version of OSX, like Panther or Tiger. I mean, those Operating Systems are discounted, so Apple doesn't make any money off them anymore :confused:

Or does Apple not care if you pirate an old version of OSX?
 
emiljan said:
Its not worth the time or effort for apple to go after every individual who pirates their software.
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Yes, thats the same with most pirated software. But would they take any legal action at all when they know their software is being pirated. I don't think they would, since its discounted ...
 
Apple cares if you steal any of their software, regardless of whether its old or new.
 
Without reading the linked page...

I think they care. People could survive on "two-generation-old" operating systems and never buy one from Apple. That would certainly impact their bottom line.
 
There's a number of ways to look at this.

One, Apple hardware has a tendency to last a long time. My two main computers are 8 and 10 years old, respectively. At least for now, they do everything I need. However, they do require "period-appropriate" software to be expedient, which is to say they run Tiger. Now, by any account, Tiger isn't that old an OS. It's almost five, which is a little more than half of the age of Windows XP, which is still fully supported, even by Apple. And yet, Apple can't wait to pull the plug on 10.4, and when that's over (iTunes will move on, QuickTime already has, and Safari 4 will only be maintained so long), they'll be coming for Leopard next. I do not see any reason to be so aggressive in their push for people to upgrade.

Two, they don't make it easy to keep it legal. They've already made their development costs and then some back on Tiger and Leopard, so I see no reason to not continue to offer legit copies of the software to those who need it and are willing to pay, but Apple refuses to do so. This is what we call entrapment. On one hand, you cannot acquire the software from the manufacturer, and on the other, if you do so through illicit means, you're breaking the law, thus the only legal option is to continually upgrade your computer to accept the latest Apple software. Yeah, you can go and buy Tiger or Leopard on any number of second-hand sites, but even that is grey-market dealings, as the EULA for OS X explicitly says the software is not for resale.

Third and getting back to the end of my first point, this aggressive push to upgrade prior to it being necessary. Windows 7 can be installed on pretty much any five year old computer with sufficient memory (they all have sufficient processors for the most part), and while not rocket ships, they'll handle the basics quite nicely. Where is Apple's support for five year old hardware? When Snow Leopard was dropped on the market, the newest PPC machines where under four years old, and they're already out to pasture and not privy to the latest software. If Apple didn't try so hard to pry people's wallets open before it was necessary, you wouldn't have as many people trying to obtain OSX in an illicit fashion.
 
drewdle, you have a lot of misconceptions in your post:

1) WindowsXP is not supported by Apple. Apple does put out the drivers that work with it, but the offer no support for it at all. I don't believe you can even pay for "enterprise support" for it.

2) Microsoft does not do anything to make sure that new hardware supports Windows XP. The copies of XP you can get from Microsoft do not include any support for newer hardware. There are ways of putting support for some new hardware into XP installer CDs that you make yourself, but Microsoft is not going to have anything to do with this, and it is likely against the EULA (and thus not allowed, if also not prosecuted). Apple is under no requirements to put in the extra effort required to back-port hardware support to an OS it no longer sells. There is no real money in it for them.

3) Except for licences with OEMs you can't buy Windows XP from Microsoft. I took a look around and could not find a retail channel that had Windows XP available in a box (tried OfficeDepot, BestBuy, and Frys). Amazon has it, but only sold through third parties. So you are asking Apple to do something that Microsoft does not do.

4) Five years is a long time in computers. You might not want it to be, but it is. Trying to make new development still support older software (or hardware) makes that new development more expensive (and time consuming) than it would be otherwise.

5) There is no way Apple could be guilty of entrapment. The definition of entrapment requires that the inducer be a member of law enforcement and be enticing the other party to do something they would not otherwise do. Neither of these two requirements are met in your scenario.

6) I have no idea what you mean when you write "they don't make it easy to keep it legal". Apple is happy to provide you with replacement recovery discs for your computer (at a reasonable fee) through AppleCare. You just have to call with your serial number. You are correct that Apple does not then sell upgrades other than to the latest version, but there are always legitimate third parties that have these. They are a little more expensive, but if you have special requirements then it is going to be more expensive.

7) Time marches on. SnowLeopard's main goal was to clean up the lower-levels of the operating system so that Apple could go farther with with development. Microsoft is a great example of what happens when you try to drag your past along with you. They have so many layers of compatibility hacks built into things that they wind up with bloated development staff and the creaky mess that is Windows. Apple does not work that way, they like to run lean on developers. If you don't like that strategy, then Apple's products are probably not the ones for you.
 
mrsir2009 said:
Hey, I was just wondering: Why does Apple care if you pirate an old version of OSX, like Panther or Tiger. I mean, those Operating Systems are discounted, so Apple doesn't make any money off them anymore :confused:

Or does Apple not care if you pirate an old version of OSX?
Click to expand...
This betrays a complete and total ignorance of the law. Apple must take reasonable measures to protect its intellectual property. If it fails to do so, then it forfeits its rights. This does not mean that Apple must take legal action against every high school kid who installs MacOS X on two different computers. However, it does mean that it cannot ignore willful violations of its property rights.

Consider this: Strawberry Computer has the same rights that you do. If Apple explicitly terminated its claim to older versions of its software, then copies could be legally bundled with computers sold by Strawberry, Peach, Dell, Gateway, and every other computer manufacturer--imagined and real.
 
MisterMe said:
This betrays a complete and total ignorance of the law. Apple must take reasonable measures to protect its intellectual property. If it fails to do so, then it forfeits its rights. This does not mean that Apple must take legal action against every high school kid who installs MacOS X on two different computers. However, it does mean that it cannot ignore willful violations of its property rights.
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I believe you are confusing trademark law with copyright law. Apple is under no obligation from pursuing individuals for this. If they choose to it is their choice. There is a bit of an entrapment clause where they can't let people openly make money on this and then latter come back and sue for damages, but that is more about the damages than further infringement.

However, under trademark law Apple would be liable for pursuing someone who started using the Apple logo to sell their products. If they let someone get big using their logo then they would no longer have the standing to sue someone for using it.
 
You will go to hell for stealing and spend eternity carrying buckets of molten sulphur around while being stabbed by naked red demons thrusting their fork things and who knows what else at you. :eek:
 
mrsir2009 said:
Hey, I was just wondering: Why does Apple care if you pirate an old version of OSX, like Panther or Tiger. I mean, those Operating Systems are discounted, so Apple doesn't make any money off them anymore :confused:

Or does Apple not care if you pirate an old version of OSX?
Click to expand...

Wrong. Apple does make money from them because Apple still sells them. I needed a copy of 10.4 for an old PPC machine I have in my home for kids. I called Apple just few months ago and buy a install disc for 10.4. It cost much less than new 10.6, but still they make some money from my sale.

Just because you don't see it in web site, or apple retail store, does not mean it "discontinued".

BUT keep in mind that every Apple computer is licensed by default to run a Mac OS. So if you have a older machine, and it was originall sold with 10.4 on it (but you do not have the discs any more), you can obtain the discs from a friend and install on your machine, since the hardware is entitled to this install.
 
larkost said:
I believe you are confusing trademark law with copyright law. ...
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No. The law related to trademarks is a subset of laws that apply to property rights in general. I said that the law requires that Apple take reasonable measures. Pursuing a secondary school child who violates Apple's IP may not be reasonable. However, Apple cannot give that child authorization that it doesn't want others to have. There are exceptions such as charitable organizations, but they are just that--exceptions.

As said before, this has nothing to do with entrapment or even a situation where entrapment is possible.
 
Argon21 said:
Wrong. Apple does make money from them because Apple still sells them. I needed a copy of 10.4 for an old PPC machine I have in my home for kids. I called Apple just few months ago and buy a install disc for 10.4. It cost much less than new 10.6, but still they make some money from my sale.

Just because you don't see it in web site, or apple retail store, does not mean it "discontinued".

BUT keep in mind that every Apple computer is licensed by default to run a Mac OS. So if you have a older machine, and it was originall sold with 10.4 on it (but you do not have the discs any more), you can obtain the discs from a friend and install on your machine, since the hardware is entitled to this install.
Click to expand...

What number did you call?

My sister has a G5 iMac that's still viable, but it's running Tiger. She'd like to run Leopard, but you can't buy a retail 10.5 disc.

I also have another friend that has an old G4 iBook who just bought an iPad. He's running Tiger as well. Since all of his photos and music are on the iBook, he needs to get 10.5 Leopard.

eBay is a joke because everyone's selling 10.5 for $$$. I was surprised that Apple took 10.5 out of the store when they release 10.6. If I had known that they were gonna do that, I'd probably have gone out and buy one.

Thanks.
 
87vert said:
http://www.megamacs.com/v0/show_apple_soft.php

Megamacs still has Leopard / Tiger / Panther for sale.

Along with older copies of iLife and everything else.
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$250 for Leopard?!?!?!? No thanks.

I understand why Apple needs to move on with their OS, but at the least, they could continue to sell the older versions of OS X for a reasonable price. It just seems as though 10.5 disappeared as soon as 10.6 came out.

The main thing is that Apple continually makes new devices that require the latest OS. I got burned when I bought the new Airport Express. It requires 10.5+ to run the utility. WHY?!!?!? Anyways, I have a Macbook, so I can install Snow Leopard, so no big deal.

Hopefully, there are other more reasonably priced avenues to acquire Leopard for those with older Macs.
 
ftaok said:
$250 for Leopard?!?!?!? No thanks.

I understand why Apple needs to move on with their OS, but at the least, they could continue to sell the older versions of OS X for a reasonable price. It just seems as though 10.5 disappeared as soon as 10.6 came out.

The main thing is that Apple continually makes new devices that require the latest OS. I got burned when I bought the new Airport Express. It requires 10.5+ to run the utility. WHY?!!?!? Anyways, I have a Macbook, so I can install Snow Leopard, so no big deal.

Hopefully, there are other more reasonably priced avenues to acquire Leopard for those with older Macs.
Click to expand...

Because it would provide developers with the cover not to update their Apps to 10.6
 
Doesn't really matter, you can download illegal software/games and nobody can do anything about it. I don't know why apple cares or not. I know a lot of mac users are not fans downloading illegally, but I assume its because a lot of the users are really old? Either way for my generation its not a big deal, everyone does it, its become a lifestyle, I've been downloading since I was 12yrs old, am 22 now. Same goes for everyone I know, infact 27–55% of all internet traffic accounts for torrent downloads..

In my opinion the only way the numbers will go down is when game developers stop charging over $60 for games, same goes for software..
 
ftaok said:
...
I understand why Apple needs to move on with their OS, but at the least, they could continue to sell the older versions of OS X for a reasonable price.
...
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this for recent, still supported releases. For example, for anyone who's acquired a suitable secondhand PowerPC Mac, it would be nice to be able to get a legitimate copy of Leopard to bring it up to date.
 
Yamcha said:
Doesn't really matter, you can download illegal software/games and nobody can do anything about it. ... for my generation its not a big deal, everyone does it, its become a lifestyle, I've been downloading since I was 12yrs old, am 22 now. Same goes for everyone I know,
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself, and maybe for everyone you know. I know lots of people your age who still care about honesty and integrity.
 
apple software

does anyone know if apple cares if you copy their software for a friend like iWork, or Final cut, or iDVD, etc.?
 
veestevoo01 said:
does anyone know if apple cares if you copy their software for a friend like iWork, or Final cut, or iDVD, etc.?
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It will violate the EULA. And also know:

Warez/Serials/Keys.
Do not post software serial numbers or keys or refer people to specific websites, software, or techniques whose purpose is to break or bypass software licensing methods, distribute cracks, or obtain or use commercial software or media in violation of its license and/or for copyright violation. Do not ask for or give such help.

from https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us#Things_Not_to_Do
Click to expand...
 
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