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MacBookGamer

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 15, 2019
117
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I don't understand why they don't do something like Razer and put in a 100w GPU with 2-3x the speed. I'm sure the battery would be terrible on that GPU, but isn't that why they have automatic graphics switching?

Surely it can't be a heat problem since manufacturers are throwing in RTX 2080s into small laptops with little to no heating issues.

Am I missing something here?
 
Two reasons:
1. Apple is focused on thin and light no matter what. The MBP16 is already hot and loud with a much lower powered AMD chip.

2. Apple's reliance on AMD/hatred of Nvidia, AMD's top of the line mobile chip 5600M is much slower than a 2080 Super MaxQ the GPU that Razer uses on their top of the line
 
Two reasons:
1. Apple is focused on thin and light no matter what. The MBP16 is already hot and loud with a much lower powered AMD chip.

2. Apple's reliance on AMD/hatred of Nvidia, AMD's top of the line mobile chip 5600M is much slower than a 2080 Super MaxQ the GPU that Razer uses on their top of the line
Razer is also thin and light. Is AMD just that bad at thermals that they need low wattage?
 
Razer is also thin and light. Is AMD just that bad at thermals that they need low wattage?

I think it's a chicken-and-egg problem. At this point, anybody who is going to spend big bucks to buy a high power laptop GPU is going to buy Nvidia, for both games and CUDA users. So why should AMD bother engineering one up?
 
I don't understand why they don't do something like Razer and put in a 100w GPU with 2-3x the speed. I'm sure the battery would be terrible on that GPU, but isn't that why they have automatic graphics switching?

Surely it can't be a heat problem since manufacturers are throwing in RTX 2080s into small laptops with little to no heating issues.

Am I missing something here?

You have basically hit the nail on the head - power consumption.

What’s the point if the GPU requires so many watts that if you unplug the power cable, the laptop goes into a battery mode where the GPU is essentially disabled and the GPU then performs slower than any Mac laptop?

The MacBook Pro is for users who absolutely require good GPU performance on battery, such as when their job requires them to do GPU-intensive work away from power outlets, in the back of a taxi on the way to the airport, or on a remote shoot for a major motion picture out in the middle of nowhere.

You want a laptop that performs just as well on battery as on AC, and it just would not be practical to lug an AC-powered eGPU with you everywhere you go.

That's what a lot of this comes down to. The MacBook Pro has been designed as a system that balances performance with power efficiency. You can get Windows PC laptops with more powerful mobile GPUs than what the MacBook Pro has. But if the goal is to get work done on battery, using the portable as a portable, then the best mobile GPU is the one that performs when you're actually mobile, because the MBP is going to perform just as well when away from power as when it is connected to a power outlet.
 
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First of all, Apple not limiting the CPU or the GPU power usage per se, they are limiting the total power consumption — and they choose components that fit within that figure. Historically, this limit for the 15" model was set to around 80W+. The most likely reason for this limit is as others said — portability and power consumption. Another factor is the supplied power — Apple likes to keep their chargers compact and their batteries charged up fast. So they must have decided that this limit represents a sweet spot for their designs.

Generally, they do not limit the CPU. They let the CPU run as fast as it can but they do limit the maximal temperature the CPU can reach (which is the maximal safe operating temperature — 100C). This is incidentally the reason why you see the 100C pop up when people doing stress benchmarks — its simply how the laptop is designed to operate. Finally, the GPUs they choose historically have a TDP of 50W — why that, I have no idea, I suppose that this is also a number that Apple deems "fast enough" without breaking the thermal constraints of the chassis.

I don't understand why they don't do something like Razer and put in a 100w GPU with 2-3x the speed. I'm sure the battery would be terrible on that GPU, but isn't that why they have automatic graphics switching?

Because it's not that simple. More powerful GPU is also physically bigger, and you need to get the space somewhere. Also, you need to cool that thing somehow. Razer compromises by cutting down the battery size as well as having underside-directed exhaust vents (basically big fans are just over the heatsinks and they blow the air out from the underside of the laptop). In contrast, Apple needs more space for the battery and they do not use bottom-directed exhaust vents, since they hamper usability in cramped spaces (MBP exhausts blow the air behind the laptop instead).


Am I missing something here?

It's all about design tradeoffs. You want a silent cooling system, big thermals, powerful hardware and large battery? Then you laptop is going to be a brick. You want it portable? Then you have to give up some of the above. You want the battery life to be good? Then you don't just need a big battery, but also fine-fined power system and very efficient GPU switching (this is also why Apple uses a hardware GPU switching solution rather than a software-based solution like in gaming laptops) — which is more costly.

Apple's market proposition is still rather unique. They offer a laptop that (almost) matches the multimedia performance of premium multimedia laptops, the CPU performance and connectivity of a workstation class machine, while retaining the mobility of an ultrabook. The MBP game is flexibility. It doesn't really excel in any given category, but it's a very good compromise.
 
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