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Why does the Mac Pro exist when you have the Mac Studio?

JanetTheGreat

JanetTheGreat

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 29, 2023
222
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For the existence of the Mac Studio - why even have the Mac Pro, when it's full of empty space? I don't think it would be a good idea for them to make the Mac Pro ever again since it would be even more expensive than the Mac Studio for more or less the same computer in a larger, more empty format.
 
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The Mac Pro seems to be in an awkward place right now. I don’t go back to ancient times with Apple, but it used to be the desktop you got if you need more power than a Mac mini. Then in 2019 it became this machine for high-end professionals that worked for Disney and Youtubers like MKBHD.

Then Apple Silicon comes out with no compatibility for graphics cards or removable RAM. At that point it was an Apple machine with a weaker CPU, but still had some specialized capabilities. As Apple Silicon got better it was left in the dust.

If the Mac Pro is going to come back, first we have to answer the question what is the Mac Pro? Is it a computer for people that need more power than the Mac mini? If so, we have the Mac Studio. Is it a computer for people that work at movie studios? If so, how does that work with the limited expansion capabilities under the current Apple Silicon? Is there still a market for a $30k+ Mac Pro? I know a lot of people were upset when the Mac Pro went high end, but I think Apple was preparing for Apple Silicon. The Mac Studio is the Mac Pro we had before 2019. It’s high-end, but not unobtainable for most people. Sure it doesn’t have the old school internal expansion capabilities, but for most people TB4 makes external drives workable.


The bottom line is, what is the future Mac Pro and who is it for?
 
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SilverSpooned said:
For the existence of the Mac Studio - why even have the Mac Pro, when it's full of empty space?
Click to expand...
It really is just the PCIe expansion slots, for people who need them for audio/video interfaces, specialist network cards or lots of internal PCIe SSDs. If that’s not something you need then the Mac Pro is irrelevant to you.

External Thunderbolt 3 PCIe enclosures are limited to 4 lanes of PCIe v3 and top out at about 3 slots. The M2 Ultra Pro provides more slots, more lanes and PCIe v4 compatibility. It needs the Ultra chip with the second die to provide the extra PCIe lanes.

I mean, it’s not a great value-for-money proposition for those who do need the slots - so the message is, really, if you need that PCIe bandwidth and can migrate to PC for less than $7k per seat, go ahead. Apple Silicon is better suited for Mac Studio type systems + Thunderbolt peripherals.
 
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Cape Dave said:
Is that enough of a market to justify an entire line of computers? I think not :)
Click to expand...

Probably not, but consider that the 2022 Mac Pro used the same chassis as the 2019 Mac Pro to keep costs down. And I would not at all be surprised if we see a 2-3 year update program for the Mac Pro, so we may be waiting until WWDC 2026 for an SoC update from M2 Ultra.
 
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Cape Dave said:
Is that enough of a market to justify an entire line of computers? I think not :)
Click to expand...


Apple doesn't really want to be in the business of serving the niche professional market. Revenue they make from it is tiny. One reason though they would want to continue to do it is that it is good for general brand awareness just by keeping one foot in the sector and keeping the Mac Pro around for that as they already have done the R&D on building the Mac Pro so it might be worth it for them to just keep it around even if the numbers on paper don't make sense.
 
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Cape Dave said:
Is that enough of a market to justify an entire line of computers? I think not :)
Click to expand...
Well, it depends if Apple wants the Mac to keep a foothold in areas like AV production houses who actually need those specialist PCIe interface cards. Imagine a business running pro software needs, maybe, one tower Mac with specialist hardware for every 10 laptops, Minis or Studios for day-to-day work. If Apple drop the tower Mac so the business has to switch those systems to Windows or Linux, that gives them a great incentive to switch to PC laptops rather than support two OSs and different software, so Apple risks losing those laptop/Studio sales as well. Then the developer of the pro software loses a bunch of licensees & might re consider dropping Mac support for their software…

Anyhow, there’s no rocket science in hanging a PCIe switch off the spare SSD bus of an existing Max Ultra chip and putting it in an existing enclosure designed to cool a Xeon space-heater. Far less complex R&D than a new laptop or SFF system with edge-of-the-envelope thermals. The “entire line” of Mac Pros may sell in tiny numbers c.f. the PC workstation market as a whole, but they probable outsell many individual “lines” of comparable PC workstations.

The restriction is whether Apple could justify the R&D for a proper workstation/server-class CPU that would make for a less kludgey tower workstation line.
 
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SilverSpooned said:
For the existence of the Mac Studio - why even have the Mac Pro, when it's full of empty space? I don't think it would be a good idea for them to make the Mac Pro ever again since it would be even more expensive than the Mac Studio for more or less the same computer in a larger, more empty format.
Click to expand...
Makes no sense with apple silicon. Apple silicion allowed Apple to do the M4 Mac mini.
Back then before Apple Silicon you had intel which mean it was a heat soaking monster; hence why the mac pro was built that way for cooling.. [i think] at a hefty premium.

mac studio is the way to go nowadays. esp w/ TB5 u can plug external drives and get similar speeds to internal at 1/4th of price. pe TB or so equiv
 
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Mac Pro today is a very different system from 15 years ago. When it was new you had a very competitive workstation, right out of the box, but you could then keep upgrading storage, memory, gpu, even with nvidia cards and of course all the pci slots.

Through the years many of this options have disappeared. Now we sit left with pci slots, without gpu, and the same external storage as other macs. A possible external pci slot on a Studio could reduce the need for a Mac Pro. However, I know sound studio people highly value minimum lag, and I do not know how that would fare with a external solution.
 
The use case for the Mac Pro is very limited. Obviously those who need the PCI slots will find it helpful, but I'm certain Apple sells very few of them, and given that, there's a strong likelihood of it being discontinued entirely. When the Mac Pro was Intel-based, the PCI slots were probably much more useful (GPUs), but other than a few remaining very specialized cards, there's a very small market remaining for it.
 
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Thunderbolt for every specialized PCI slot is not a solution for production studios yet, and keeping production and music studios in the Apple ecosystem causes a trickle down effect for purchasing more Apple products which may be worth it to keep the Mac Pro around for.

Just because you're not the target market for one doesn't mean there isn't one, albeit small and specialized.
 
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Acidsplat said:
Thunderbolt for every specialized PCI slot is not a solution for production studios yet, and keeping production and music studios in the Apple ecosystem causes a trickle down effect for purchasing more Apple products which may be worth it to keep the Mac Pro around for.

Just because you're not the target market for one doesn't mean there isn't one, albeit small and specialized.
Click to expand...
Agree 100%, but Apple has to want to maintain that market despite the small number of Mac Pros sold. Don't know if they will.
 
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