why is Airport not standard?

[fluidedge]

I know it's only a £25/$50 upgrade, but when you're already shelling out £1500+ on the box it does seem a bit cheap of apple not to have it as standard when they throw in things like the mouse/keyboard that not everyone wants, however i'm sure everyone would like to use wireless at some point?

Do some workplaces not like wireless or something? Are apple just responding to corporate requests?

 

[Cromulent]

I know it's only a £25/$50 upgrade, but when you're already shelling out £1500+ on the box it does seem a bit cheap of apple not to have it as standard when they throw in things like the mouse/keyboard that not everyone wants, however i'm sure everyone would like to use wireless at some point?

Do some workplaces not like wireless or something? Are apple just responding to corporate requests?

Because as you have already said some work places do not allow any wireless devices. It is the same reason that iSight has not been put in the cinema displays.

 

[JesterJJZ]

And some people might not want or need it. I prefer a hardwired connection personally.

 

[aaronw1986]

I know it's only a £25/$50 upgrade, but when you're already shelling out £1500+ on the box it does seem a bit cheap of apple not to have it as standard when they throw in things like the mouse/keyboard that not everyone wants, however i'm sure everyone would like to use wireless at some point?

Do some workplaces not like wireless or something? Are apple just responding to corporate requests?

Mostly because a lot of people don't need wireless for a desktop. For the most part it's in once place, unlike a laptop. Plus, they probably want to make all the extra money they can off people,

 

[Bastich]

Then why is Bluetooth standard now?

 

[aaronw1986]

Then why is Bluetooth standard now?

Well bluetooth means you could put your keyboard on your lap without wires, could print to a wireless printer, could pair your cell phone so that you'd know when you have an incoming call, wacom wireless tablet, many things....

Even so, it'd be nice if wifi card was included. I will be getting it in my Mac Pro if I get one, since I will use it at my parent's house over summer.

 

[CalBoy]

And some people might not want or need it. I prefer a hardwired connection personally.

That doesn't seem like good reasoning. Not everyone uses the backlight on their iPod. Does that mean that Apple should forgo the feature?

Mostly because a lot of people don't need wireless for a desktop.

I don't know about that. It depends on the type of desktop. For example, an iMac is a desktop.

For the most part it's in once place, unlike a laptop.

Once again this seems to be specious reasoning. This implies that because feature A is simpler on a desktop, we should forgo feature B. They aren't really interrelated.

Plus, they probably want to make all the extra money they can off people,

This troubles me a tad because it doesn't seem to be the case. For example, with other Apple products, one often gets little "extras" you didn't expect (the first Apple remote, or Firewire cables that came with older iPods). The cost of building in Airport surely can't cost that much. I question how much Apple really makes off of the addition.

 

[JesterJJZ]

That doesn't seem like good reasoning. Not everyone uses the backlight on their iPod. Does that mean that Apple should forgo the feature?

Most people don't use airbags in cars.

 

[Umbongo]

This troubles me a tad because it doesn't seem to be the case. For example, with other Apple products, one often gets little "extras" you didn't expect (the first Apple remote, or Firewire cables that came with older iPods). The cost of building in Airport surely can't cost that much. I question how much Apple really makes off of the addition.

It is still an added cost and anyone who needs it will still buy it and Apple can make a profit instead of a loss. It isn't standard for this type of system nor expected by the vast majority of buyers I would think.

On the money side for Apple, let's say it only costs Apple $5 and the sell 100,000 systems a year, that's a cost of $500,000 compared to maybe 5000 or so $50 purchases which is quite the difference.

On the iPod backlight thing, I'm sure if the market would bear a backlight upgrade for $x Apple would use that method.

 

[Reach]

Probably because people like me would hate to pay extra for something I would never use.

On my Mac Pro I do video, and I use the network a lot for transferring very large files. Gigabit ethernet is the only option for me, and I would never dream of using wifi as my internet-connection. It's far too slow.

On my Macbook Pro, Mini and iMac I mainly use wifi though, and I'm very glad it's included for those machines. The Mac Pro is just a different kind of beast, which is more often used for far larger files, and also far more likely to be in a network than other machines. If the internet is all you need wifi is fine, but not for networking.

 

[deathshrub]

Then why is Bluetooth standard now?

Probably so that they didn't have to deal with all the problems that they did with the last Mac Pro and Bluetooth.

It isn't standard for this type of system nor expected by the vast majority of buyers I would think.

Exactly. Wireless is fine for a grandmother using the computer for email or a stoned teenager watching youtube videos. Dual gigabit ethernet is that serious ****.

I ordered with wireless, but only for resale value. I will be shocked if a use ever comes up for it where I use it for more than a few minutes.

 

[Cromulent]

The only use I can see for wireless would be the convienience of Time Capsule.

 

[CalBoy]

Most people don't use airbags in cars.

And the relevance of that is...? Air bags are a preventative feature, not one people use actively. Nonetheless, your shaky point reinforces mine: not everyone "needs" a feature in order to qualify it for it to be standard.

It is still an added cost and anyone who needs it will still buy it and Apple can make a profit instead of a loss.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with that argument. I question how much Apple walks away with in the end. The reason I do is because I'm not sure when (and hence who) installs Airport if you want it. A Chinese worker barely costs anything in labor terms and the $50 charge would likely lead to a great deal of profit.

On the other hand, an American worker paid even an average wage (say $15/hour) can cost Apple quite a lot (Social Security, insurance, benefits, regulatory restrictions, etc). I'd really like more details before accepting the theory that it's exclusively caused by greed (it might be a contributing factor, but I'd still like to know to what degree).

It isn't standard for this type of system nor expected by the vast majority of buyers I would think.

That isn't saying much at all. Buyers have been conditioned at this point to not expect it, which is a self-feeding cycle. Obviously people like the OP expect it, so I'm not sure how well we can use that as a reason.

On the iPod backlight thing, I'm sure if the market would bear a backlight upgrade for $x Apple would use that method.

Possibly. After that lame $20 (or whatever it is) charge for the iPod touch update, I'm sort of irritated with Apple (even though I don't own a touch). That's just bad business in my book. Early product buyers were being brave by buying a new product, and you reward them with more fees and surcharges.

The only use I can see for wireless would be the convienience of Time Capsule.

What about for those who don't have an internet setup where they want the Mac Pro? In our house there is only one room with a feasible place for internet stuff, and if I want a computer (which I have) it must be outside that room. What's one to do then?

Oh yeah, pay Apple for it.

 

[Cromulent]

What about for those who don't have an internet setup where they want the Mac Pro? In our house there is only one room with a feasible place for internet stuff, and if I want a computer (which I have) it must be outside that room. What's one to do then?

Oh yeah, pay Apple for it.

Personally, we wired an ethernet network with ports into all the rooms that needed network access. Works well and keeps cable clutter to a bare minimum. Sticking stuff under the floor boards is a great way to have a fast network without having to worry about the pit falls of a wireless network.

 

[Hankster]

Then why is Bluetooth standard now?

Bluetooth and Airport are two different things.

A desktop most likely will be on a LAN line for Internet. Bluetooth is used for mouse and keyboard. Apples and oranges here.

 

[CalBoy]

Personally, we wired an ethernet network with ports into all the rooms that needed network access. Works well and keeps cable clutter to a bare minimum. Sticking stuff under the floor boards is a great way to have a fast network without having to worry about the pit falls of a wireless network.

Our house isn't so friendly when it comes to wiring. It's very long and not very wide, and so the cables would have to be run for long distances. Sure it's possible, but it would be annoying.

Besides, I hate wired internet! The freedom to move around with a laptop is priceless. Hence if I was to add a Mac Pro to our collection, I wouldn't care to bother running a line all the way across the house; it would be a lot easier just to add it to the existing network.

 

[Umbongo]

I'm still not entirely comfortable with that argument. I question how much Apple walks away with in the end. The reason I do is because I'm not sure when (and hence who) installs Airport if you want it. A Chinese worker barely costs anything in labor terms and the $50 charge would likely lead to a great deal of profit.

On the other hand, an American worker paid even an average wage (say $15/hour) can cost Apple quite a lot (Social Security, insurance, benefits, regulatory restrictions, etc). I'd really like more details before accepting the theory that it's exclusively caused by greed (it might be a contributing factor, but I'd still like to know to what degree).

The fact that Apple's retail boxes don't have wifi means that their data shows that there isn't significant demand for it. Also if you read some other threads on Airport cards you'll see that sometimes Apple do want to charge extra for installation. Whether overall they make a profit or not, there is no way it is costing them as much as installing them in every MP when they don't need to. Seems like a sensible business decision to me.

That isn't saying much at all. Buyers have been conditioned at this point to not expect it, which is a self-feeding cycle. Obviously people like the OP expect it, so I'm not sure how well we can use that as a reason.

Bluetooth is now standard, this is likely due to customer feedback more than anything else. Some people expect graphic cards as powerful as the 8800GT as standard, 4GB of memory, larger hard drives etc. It is not just Apple's whim that make the Mac Pro's features and specifications.

 

[CalBoy]

The fact that Apple's retail boxes don't have wifi means that their data shows that there isn't significant demand for it. Also if you read some other threads on Airport cards you'll see that sometimes Apple do want to charge extra for installation. Whether overall they make a profit or not, there is no way it is costing them as much as installing them in every MP when they don't need to. Seems like a sensible business decision to me.

Like I said before, we don't know all the particular details.
I'd really like to know how much it costs Apple to have Airport added in afterwards, because my hunch is that it isn't done for the sake of making a quick buck. I think more than anything, Apple does this because of a lack of consumer feedback as you point out here:

Bluetooth is now standard, this is likely due to customer feedback more than anything else. Some people expect graphic cards as powerful as the 8800GT as standard, 4GB of memory, larger hard drives etc. It is not just Apple's whim that make the Mac Pro's features and specifications.

It's curious to me that Apple would need consumer feedback in this case. It almost seems like a slap in the face to not have Airport built-in when one buys such a pricey computer. It's like buying a BMW only to find out that it doesn't have cup-holders. Not every feature should be so vigorously demanded by consumers; at some stage Apple should realize that it's shaming to leave Airport out of a high end computer (much like it's shaming to leave a Superdrive out of an $1100 macbook ).

 

[Hankster]

Bluetooth should be standard, from now on, for all laptops and desktops. Wireless however should only be standard for laptops I feel. Too many desktops are on LAN lines, no real need for a wireless connection.

 

[CalBoy]

Too many desktops are on LAN lines, no real need for a wireless connection.

Again I think this reasoning is poor.

100% of the market doesn't need to have its interests met in order for the feature to be standardized.

 

[Umbongo]

Like I said before, we don't know all the particular details.
I'd really like to know how much it costs Apple to have Airport added in afterwards, because my hunch is that it isn't done for the sake of making a quick buck. I think more than anything, Apple does this because of a lack of consumer feedback as you point out here:


It's curious to me that Apple would need consumer feedback in this case. It almost seems like a slap in the face to not have Airport built-in when one buys such a pricey computer. It's like buying a BMW only to find out that it doesn't have cup-holders. Not every feature should be so vigorously demanded by consumers; at some stage Apple should realize that it's shaming to leave Airport out of a high end computer (much like it's shaming to leave a Superdrive out of an $1100 macbook ).

There is a difference between a quick buck and a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars for components that have little demand and aren't needed to sell the product. And that last bit is a key point, no one, and I mean no one, is going to not buy a Mac Pro over the fact it doesn't come with wifi as standard. This is a business decision, and you don't get $18 billion in the bank by making many bad ones.

 

[amik]

Because as you have already said some work places do not allow any wireless devices.

This is exactly my thought. Why standardize something that is a deal breaker for certain clients. My employer does not allow any wireless connections due to security concerns.

Most blackberries don't have cameras even though you can pick up any cheap cell phone and it'll have one. It's not a failure to add a basic feature, it's recognition that certain clients can not compromise on the camera's absence. RIM makes a camera available on some models, just not across the board. Apple is doing the same thing.

 

[JesterJJZ]

And the relevance of that is...? Air bags are a preventative feature, not one people use actively. Nonetheless, your shaky point reinforces mine: not everyone "needs" a feature in order to qualify it for it to be standard.

Dude my point exactly...apples and oranges.

Unless you live somewhere where the sun never sets you'll most likely use the backlight on your ipod, whereas a lot of people don't need their desktop connected wirelessly since it's plugged into other stuff anyway. It's not like it's portable to begin with. You're comparison is irrelevant and holds no water.

 

[CalBoy]

There is a difference between a quick buck and a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars for components that have little demand and aren't needed to sell the product. And that last bit is a key point, no one, and I mean no one, is going to not buy a Mac Pro over the fact it doesn't come with wifi as standard.

I don't know if it's possible to say that "no one" would not buy one, but perhaps most people wouldn't consider it.

Nonetheless, the question is, why isn't it included? If the Mac Pro is targeted for business clients, Airport could just as easily be disabled via software and be a standard feature for those who want it. Charging $50 seems a bit too much like penny pinching and the leaving out of popular features for no known reason (does anyone remember how long iBooks went without Bluetooth, or how pathetic the included RAM used to be?).

This is a business decision, and you don't get $18 billion in the bank by making many bad ones.

Nice tautology. Not every decision needs to be a good one for a business to succeed (ie, the Zune compared to Windows or Office).

The Mac Pro isn't exactly Apple's bread and butter (I believe that distinction belongs to the macbook and iMac lines), so the Mac Pro could in fact be riddled with lots of minor bad decisions and still keep revenue coming for Apple.

Dude my point exactly...apples and oranges.

Not exactly. I know several people who never use the backlight on their iPods (I seem to be the minority when it comes to the backlight amongst my friends).

However, if you have a conceptual problem with the backlight, how about the fact that we can choose how long the timer is to be. Logically Apple could make 5 seconds a standard and remove our choice to change it. What's wrong with that?

Or how about the ability to add time into the title bar? Surely most of us don't need that since we have phones and watches. Why not eliminate that?

whereas a lot of people don't need their desktop connected wirelessly since it's plugged into other stuff anyway.

Really, so you wouldn't mind if Apple removed Airport from iMacs? The iMac is a desktop. Or do you not classify it as a desktop because it's meant for "consumers?"

Funny that I keep seeing iMacs in offices then. I thought offices only needed the wired-only Mac Pro.

It's not like it's portable to begin with. You're comparison is irrelevant and holds no water.

What does not being a portable have to do with it? There are multiple advantages to having wireless capability even for desktops.

 

[eyecool]

In the future, expect to see it integrated, just like blue tooth. For now, the technology isn't there yet, but it will be.

If you don't want to use it, you don't enable it. If you use it, it's there and a more energy efficient than a pci or usb connection. No real biggy unless you use it.

With the way things are going, it may even have it's own core... one more for the "core farm".