Why is everybody saying to wait until universal programs come out,andTHENbuyanintel?

[car]

Hey guys, I'm a newbie here (lol) and I have one big question. I want a new mac, and am very happy that these new intel iMacs came out. Here's my dilemma, all the reviews that I read say that we should wait until universal programs come out and then buy the computer. My question is, isn't it the same whether you wait or buy the computer now, I mean, even if you wait until the universal programs come out (so you dont have to use Rosetta), and then buy the mac, it's still gonna be the same mac. But if you buy it now, you'll endure a bit of Rosetta, but at least you won't be mac-less until the universal programs come out...

So why are the reviews saying to wait and buy...is there gonna be a new machine, or does it somehow make a difference..?

Please explain!! Thank you guys!!

 

[ITASOR]

Some people depend on the apps that don't run under rosetta and therefore cannot be without them until UBs are made available.

There's also those who suggest that beginners shouldn't start with an intel now (I agree to that as well) because it takes a little more searching when getting apps, might be more problematic at this point, etc.

 

[car]

Oh I see. ...So not everything runs on Rosetta. But those are more complicated programs? Photoshop, Premier and that runs on Rosetta?


Anyhoo, I dont think I completely understand what you mean on why beginners shouldn't start on an Intel based Mac?

 

[Clix Pix]

A lot depends on how you're planning to use your new machine and what you have used in the past. Are you looking to buy a new Mac and do stuff like email, web browsing, maybe some basic photo image manipulation, etc.? Or are you planning to use the new Mac for some heavy-duty photo image manipulation using Photoshop or Aperture? Planning to edit digital movies?

If you're not going to be using your new Mac for anything that goes beyond the scope of the included software (which is all universal binary), then by all means, go ahead and get that new Mac right now. If, on the other hand, you're looking to work extensively in Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Final Cut or other "pro" applications, then you're better off waiting a little while. Those programs, while they WILL run under Rosetta, will be far more satisfying once they're in universal binary format.

If you've never had a Mac before, there's a few things to get used to right off the bat and so if you've got to be concerned about later on adding in different versions of programs and so on, it just adds a little unnecessary hassle; that's why the recommendations are out there to hold off for a few months until more software is already available in universal binary format....

I bought my Macs a few months ago, knowing that the Intel versions were coming down the pike. I figure that I'll be very happy using my machines as they are right now and with the software that is available (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc.) in the current PPC format.

Consider how you plan to use whatever Mac you buy and then base your purchase decision accordingly...

OTB

 

[AP_piano295]

and of course there is the old argument that any new product is likely to have bugs (both in software (Roseta) and the hardware) This argument doesnt hold the same ammount of water that it did years ago an initial release may be a bit more buggy. Yet considering the expertise that has been achieved in the field of electronics these days new products are waaay less buggy than they were years ago.

 

[Crikey]

There are apps that don't run very fast under Rosetta, and some that won't run at all. If you need one of those apps, you should wait. If you are the type that wants to buy, or download and try, a bunch of software for your new iMac, you might find applications of that type and thus encounter frustration.

If you mostly will stick at first to the healthy pile of software Apple installs on these machines and to those other applications that are either Universal Binaries or that work well running under Rosetta, I see no sense in waiting.

Personally, if I didn't already have a Rev. A G5 iMac, I'd probably buy an Intel-based one soon.

Good luck,


Crikey

 

[car]

A lot depends on how you're planning to use your new machine and what you have used in the past. Are you looking to buy a new Mac and do stuff like email, web browsing, maybe some basic photo image manipulation, etc.? Or are you planning to use the new Mac for some heavy-duty photo image manipulation using Photoshop or Aperture? Planning to edit digital movies?

If you're not going to be using your new Mac for anything that goes beyond the scope of the included software (which is all universal binary), then by all means, go ahead and get that new Mac right now. If, on the other hand, you're looking to work extensively in Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Final Cut or other "pro" applications, then you're better off waiting a little while. Those programs, while they WILL run under Rosetta, will be far more satisfying once they're in universal binary format.

If you've never had a Mac before, there's a few things to get used to right off the bat and so if you've got to be concerned about later on adding in different versions of programs and so on, it just adds a little unnecessary hassle; that's why the recommendations are out there to hold off for a few months until more software is already available in universal binary format....

I bought my Macs a few months ago, knowing that the Intel versions were coming down the pike. I figure that I'll be very happy using my machines as they are right now and with the software that is available (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc.) in the current PPC format.

Consider how you plan to use whatever Mac you buy and then base your purchase decision accordingly...

OTB

Thanks for the extensive reply. It definetly helped a lot.

The main reason why I'm getting a mac is so I can enjoy the photo and video editing. So yeah, I would use photoshop and different kinds of "pros."

I probably won't get it until the summer, and once I do get, if the new applications did not come out yet, I will sacrafice a little time under Rosetta because even with Rosetta, it's prolly faster than my (2.4 GHz Intel Celeron Processor, and 512 MB ram....correct? ) computer. And then once they do come out, I can enjoy the full power of a Mac.


Thanks for the replies.

 

[ITASOR]

I probably won't get it until the summer

Things like Photoshop and stuff should all be UB's by then.

 

[car]

Things like Photoshop and stuff should all be UB's by then.

Yes. Great! That's awesome. Thanks for all your info guys!!

 

[bousozoku]

Things like Photoshop and stuff should all be UB's by then.

I don't think Photoshop will be a Universal Binary this or next summer but if Apple discontinues all PPC machines, it might speed up Adobe a bit.

I don't see much reason to hold off on Intel purchases if a person is doing casual editing but the machine has to be full of RAM in order to get decent response from the system. Obviously, if you're doing consumer level work, it's not going to be much of an issue at all to use an Intel Mac.

 

[cnakeitaro]

Plus if it wasn't already said, most likely in 6 months, new revisions will be out anyways, so you get a new intel mac that can run your UB quicker!

 

[-Escher-]

I'm buying my VERY FIRST MAC! So I can be considered a newbie too!

I'd not hesitate to buy an Intel right now

I REALLY don't believe that buying an OLD non Intel based computer that will be completely obsolete in 6 months a good move. Not at all!

This REV A issue...there'll be a REV B, C , D issues too! I bet!

 

[tuartboy]

Final Cut and DVD studio will not be available as UBs until mid-march. The PPC versions will not run under Rosetta. Photoshop runs, but I hear it's no faster than an old G4.

Rosetta's nice, but not for anyone who is serious about their pro apps.

 

[cb911]

if you want a new iMac now, just go for it. especially if you're a new Mac user. if you don't have a whole lot of apps that you need to run under Rosetta, you're fine. even if you do end up using a few PPC apps, if you've never had a Mac before, you may not even notice the speed difference.

i wouldn't worry about 'bugs' from first revision new hardware. i bought a first model Al PB and had absolutely no problems with it (except that the HD has died now from so much use - but that's really no unusual)

 

[car]

This REV A issue...there'll be a REV B, C , D issues too! I bet!

What does that mean?


Yeah, and by the time I buy mine, a lot of things will be out..


One guy thought that UB photoshop might not come out even until next summer...why do you think so?

 

[bousozoku]

...
One guy thought that UB photoshop might not come out even until next summer...why do you think so?

I think so because Adobe has 15 years of lousy software development to undo to get the application to where they can make it run well on Mac OS X for PowerPC, let alone Intel.

They had us pay for the upgrade to Photoshop 7 to get Mac OS X compatibility but it doesn't work well. The hope was that CS and CS 2 would be faster, but they're worse.

InDesign can be moved to Intel relatively quickly, in constrast, because it's a much better, newer design.

 

[Lincoln]

Adobe won't release a UB version of Photoshop until CS3 comes out. A new version of this software comes out roughly every 18 months. Since CS2 came out in May last year, you are probably looking at November/December this year.

NOTE: If you do intend to use Rosetta a lot, get at least 1GB or Ram, more if you can afford it.

In addition unlike the previous G5 iMac's two memory modules a faster than one (i.e. 2x 512MB or 2x 1GB). Quote from Apple Store:

"iMac computers contain 667MHz MHz double data rate, synchronous dynamic random-access memory (DDR2-SDRAM), one of the fastest memory technologies available today. All iMac systems include one 512MB SO-DIMM for a total of 512MB main memory. All systems will support up to 2GB of main memory using a maximum of two 1GB SO-DIMMs filling the two accessible memory slots. To maximize memory performance, it is recommended that memory SO-DIMMs be installed in pairs."

Lincoln

 

[shrimpdesign]

and of course there is the old argument that any new product is likely to have bugs (both in software (Roseta) and the hardware) This argument doesnt hold the same ammount of water that it did years ago an initial release may be a bit more buggy. Yet considering the expertise that has been achieved in the field of electronics these days new products are waaay less buggy than they were years ago.

To add to what you were saying, I never got the people who keep saying that this is version 1. Like the iMac hasn't been in this same case design for a while. The only thing changed is the processor, just like Apple said. As for the software bugs, I expect it to be minimal due to the fact that OS X has been running on x86 processors for the past 5 or 6 years ... Rosetta is great, I can't wait to put more RAM in my new iMac and install 10.5 later this year

 

[atszyman]

To add to what you were saying, I never got the people who keep saying that this is version 1. Like the iMac hasn't been in this same case design for a while. The only thing changed is the processor,

It's not just the processor, it's the motherboard, graphics card, RAM, etc. The only things that they can keep internally are the iSight, Hard Drive and DVD drive. The rest is all new which makes the likelihood of major flaws much higher since a speed bump upgrade usually doesn't require a new motherboard or a complete redesign of the motherboard.

 

[petej]

I have in the past been financially burnt by purchasing hardware that was bleeding edge on the promise of software later that either failed to appear or just wouldn't work or when it did appear required more recent hardware.
Now I take the view that when I buy a PC/Mac/hardware, it must be functionally complete at the time of purchase. In other words, all the software I need must run on it at that time. I then buy everything at once.

For this reason, I will definately not be purchasing a new iMac this year despite my heart telling me to. I have used one of the new intel iMacs and it did perform very well but I need more than iLife.

My advice to others is if you already have a functioning computer, wait as long as you can before buying one of these.

If you really need a computer now then take a good look at what you need and make a rational judgement between the G5 and the intel.

 

[matperk]

I don't think Photoshop will be a Universal Binary this or next summer but if Apple discontinues all PPC machines, it might speed up Adobe a bit.

I can't imagine adobe waiting more than a year and a half to make a ub. It would keep them from selling copies of their software, and it would keep apple from selling PowerPC systems. And since the entire PPC line is getting replaced this year--I believe we'll see photoshop ub this year.

 

[bousozoku]

I can't imagine adobe waiting more than a year and a half to make a ub. It would keep them from selling copies of their software, and it would keep apple from selling PowerPC systems. And since the entire PPC line is getting replaced this year--I believe we'll see photoshop ub this year.

You mean that it would keep Apple selling PowerPC systems.

We can hope that Adobe gets its act together but looking at recent history, it may take a lot longer than even they think. If you look back at the Mac OS X conversions, Freehand was the first professional graphics application able to run and Corel Graphics Suite was the first (so-called) professional suite. Adobe finally got Illustrator 10 to run on Mac OS X but it never worked properly.

I believe that it wasn't until Mac OS X version 10.2.x, that Adobe finally got everything running, and we're still waiting for those applications to run well.

 

[RacerX]

I believe that it wasn't until Mac OS X version 10.2.x, that Adobe finally got everything running, and we're still waiting for those applications to run well.

Photoshop 7 predated 10.2 by a couple months. InDesign, Illustrator, Acrobat (though not Distiller), GoLive, LiveMotion and After Effects were all running natively on Mac OS X before that. In fact the last Adobe app to get ported was Premiere (a couple months after the release of 10.2).

And all those apps could run on 10.1.x systems (even Premiere).

What was most maddening about Adobe's transition was that within weeks of Apple getting a working version of Carbon running in Rhapsody, Adobe was able to demo a Carbonized version of Photoshop 5 running natively in Rhapsody at WWDC 98. And yet Photoshop 6 wasn't made to be Mac OS X native and Photoshop 7 was one of the last apps Adobe released for Mac OS X.

Makes ya wonder... if Photoshop was such a technically challenging application to port to Mac OS X, why was that the app that they attempted (and succeeded) to demo back in 1998?

 

[shrimpdesign]

It's not just the processor, it's the motherboard, graphics card, RAM, etc. The only things that they can keep internally are the iSight, Hard Drive and DVD drive. The rest is all new which makes the likelihood of major flaws much higher since a speed bump upgrade usually doesn't require a new motherboard or a complete redesign of the motherboard.

I doubt they had the same motherboard in the iSight iMac G5s from the previous iMac G5s since they reduced it's depth by 20% in October. It may be a major change, but the iMac Core Duo is not a 1.0 iMac.

 

[tuartboy]

I doubt they had the same motherboard in the iSight iMac G5s from the previous iMac G5s since they reduced it's depth by 20% in October. It may be a major change, but the iMac Core Duo is not a 1.0 iMac.

I'm sure things were changed around and shrunk/moved for the isight iMac, but you surely cannot suggest that there is no significant difference between the current iMac G5 and the new intel version. Like previously stated, the architecture revamp requires a completely new motherboard and with it brings changes in many internal components.

The hardware may appear the same on the outside, and while you may not experience the typical Rev A cosmetic defects (warping, flaking, pitting) you very may well experience hardware defects (failing logic boards, overheating, general production faults).

A comparison of the core duo architecture with the G5 is more dissimilar than a G4/G5 comparison. I'm sure no one would call the G4 iMac's transition to the G5 "a major change, but... not a 1.0 iMac."

I suggest we all abandon the core duo and buy up the endangered stock of 7100s. No one can beat the raw power of 80mhz of Motorola goodness.