Why Isn't This Standard In Most Homes Now?

[thehustleman]

Wouldn't this be a great idea to have this standard in every home?

One in the living room, one in the kitchen, and bedroom. Totally eliminate the need to plug in another piece.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Duplex-Wall-Outlet-Receptacle-w-Two-Integrated-USB-Power-Charging-Ports-/111024541151?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d9940ddf

 

[Nermal]

All I see are two shocked faces looking at me!

 

[simsaladimbamba]

All I see are two shocked faces looking at me!

It seems like two USB ports where the black and white cable go into the socket.

Though at first I thought, aren't power sockets available everywhere nowadays, but then I looked at my room.

 

[thehustleman]

It seems like two USB ports where the black and white cable go into the socket.

Though at first I thought, aren't power sockets available everywhere nowadays, but then I looked at my room.

yes, the usb power ports should be on all outlets

 

[Nermal]

It seems like two USB ports where the black and white cable go into the socket.

Though at first I thought, aren't power sockets available everywhere nowadays, but then I looked at my room.

Yeah I saw the USB sockets, it's just that the faces drew my attention more

 

[Renzatic]

Yeah I saw the USB sockets, it's just that the faces drew my attention more

You have no room to talk! Ours look like they're going "...WHAT?" all the time, Aussie/NZ outlets like forlorn geishas.

 

[Nermal]

You have no room to talk! Ours look like they're going "...WHAT?" all the time, Aussie/NZ outlets like forlorn geishas.

Racist, er, socketist

 

[robbieduncan]

So you want a bunch of transformers sitting everywhere drawing power and generating heat all the time? I'd rather discuss having a DC loop as well as an AC loop in the home.

 

[elistan]

So you want a bunch of transformers sitting everywhere drawing power and generating heat all the time? I'd rather discuss having a DC loop as well as an AC loop in the home.

For what it's worth, Apple reports that the iPad Retina charger consumes only 0.042 W with no load. http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/iPad_Retina_PER_oct2012.pdf If we extrapolate that to 30 such transformers in a home, we're talking only 11 kWh per year, or $1.21 per year at $0.11 per kWh. I assume the heat generated would be similarly negligible.

 

[robbieduncan]

For what it's worth, Apple reports that the iPad Retina charger consumes only 0.042 W with no load. http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/iPad_Retina_PER_oct2012.pdf If we extrapolate that to 30 such transformers in a home, we're talking only 11 kWh per year, or $1.21 per year at $0.11 per kWh. I assume the heat generated would be similarly negligible.

Sure but if we could have a reasonable agreement on a DC standard we could get rid of lots more of these things and some that draw a lot more power (I'm thinking the XBox 360 power brick and all the similar ones built into just about every piece of consumer electronics).

 

[yg17]

So you want a bunch of transformers sitting everywhere drawing power and generating heat all the time? I'd rather discuss having a DC loop as well as an AC loop in the home.

I think most of those outlets have a door covering a USB port. When the door is opened, it activates a switch that sends power to the USB port. So when the door is shut, there's no power going to those ports at all. Not sure if the door is on a spring or not so it automatically closes when the cable is unplugged.

 

[velocityg4]

I wouldn't want those to be standard. Just wasting electricity and increasing the cost of a house. Plus who knows how long before that USB form factor is obsolete.

Sure you can say they only draw 0.042W when idle. Then you have to multiply that about 260 trillion times for the yearly worldwide watt hours wasted or about 1.09 trillion watts.
That's assuming 1 billion homes with 15 outlets (2 USB jacks per outlet). The actual number would probably be higher.

 

[elistan]

Sure but if we could have a reasonable agreement on a DC standard we could get rid of lots more of these things and some that draw a lot more power (I'm thinking the XBox 360 power brick and all the similar ones built into just about every piece of consumer electronics).

I agree with your point in principle but I think the numbers don't validate it. Even the XBOX 360 at 3 W turned off is just $2.80 per year. I think the cost to consumers from a conversion to whole-home DC would end up much being much higher than the savings. Now, if energy costs increase ten-fold in the next few decades I think we'd see a much more urgent push for such efficiencies, but in the meantime you're better off concentrating on CFLs, increased insulation, updated HVAC and setting the thermostat a few degrees higher/lower.

 

[elistan]

I wouldn't want those to be standard. Just wasting electricity and increasing the cost of a house. Plus who knows how long before that USB form factor is obsolete.

Sure you can say they only draw 0.042W when idle. Then you have to multiply that about 260 trillion times for the yearly worldwide watt hours wasted or about 1.09 trillion watts.
That's assuming 1 billion homes with 15 outlets (2 USB jacks per outlet). The actual number would probably be higher.

Not to say that conservation isn't important, but 15 outlets per each of 1 billion homes in the world (I assume each two-port outlet shares a transformer) is only 5.52 tWh per year. That's 0.004% of global consumption of 143,851 tWh in 2008.

Personally, I've re-wired outlets and switches in my house before so wouldn't mind putting in two or three of these in strategic places on my own. But certainly not for every outlet - there are ones in my house that never get used at all, much less are anywhere near where a phone might rest.

 

[robbieduncan]

I agree with your point in principle but I think the numbers don't validate it. Even the XBOX 360 at 3 W turned off is just $2.80 per year. I think the cost to consumers from a conversion to whole-home DC would end up much being much higher than the savings. Now, if energy costs increase ten-fold in the next few decades I think we'd see a much more urgent push for such efficiencies, but in the meantime you're better off concentrating on CFLs, increased insulation, updated HVAC and setting the thermostat a few degrees higher/lower.

I'm not sure it'll ever make sense to convert houses. I'm about to re-wire an entire house in the UK and it won't get DC as there is no plug standard for higher power than USB. But I would like a standard to eventually exist and be built into new builds.

 

[Tomorrow]

yes, the usb power ports should be on all outlets

ALL outlets? No, no, no, for the love of God, no!

The best price I could find for one of those was about twenty bucks. Meanwhile, contractors are buying standard NEMA receptacles in bulk for about fifty cents each. A typical house might have fifty of these. And a 4,000% markup is ridiculous for something that may or may not even get any use in one location, let alone every location!

 

[APlotdevice]

I'm not sure it'll ever make sense to convert houses. I'm about to re-wire an entire house in the UK and it won't get DC as there is no plug standard for higher power than USB. But I would like a standard to eventually exist and be built into new builds.

Strictly speaking there is one such connector:

(Obviously a bit too bulky to be integrated into household sockets.)


Now I would be remiss if I didnt point out that there is a standard in development... the USB Power Delivery Specification... which would supply up to 100W over a modified USB cable.

 

[MacNut]

I agree with your point in principle but I think the numbers don't validate it. Even the XBOX 360 at 3 W turned off is just $2.80 per year. I think the cost to consumers from a conversion to whole-home DC would end up much being much higher than the savings. Now, if energy costs increase ten-fold in the next few decades I think we'd see a much more urgent push for such efficiencies, but in the meantime you're better off concentrating on CFLs, increased insulation, updated HVAC and setting the thermostat a few degrees higher/lower.

We should stop promoting CFL's they are just as harmful to the environment when you dispose the things. Everyone should be pushing LED lighting. I am lucky to get 18 months out of a CFL when they are rated for 7 years.

 

[APlotdevice]

We should stop promoting CFL's they are just as harmful to the environment when you dispose the things. Everyone should be pushing LED lighting. I am lucky to get 18 months out of a CFL when they are rated for 7 years.

CFL is still a big step up from incandescent bulbs when it comes to the environmental impact. Less energy usage means less fossil fuels need to be burned and less waste heat is introduced. And since they last much longer there is also overall less physical waste.

In the six years that I've used them, I've yet to have a single CFL burn out on me. Are you perhaps using them in a fully enclosed fixture? That's a big no-no for CFLs and LED bulbs alike, as the heat built-up inside can dramatically shorten their life-span. Also the starter circuit in any fluorescent light can only be used a set number of times, so turning these bulbs off and on too frequently can shorten their life as well.

 

[thehustleman]

We should stop promoting CFL's they are just as harmful to the environment when you dispose the things. Everyone should be pushing LED lighting. I am lucky to get 18 months out of a CFL when they are rated for 7 years.

I can only speak from experience but I started using CFLs 6 years ago and have yet to replace one

 

[MacNut]

CFL is still a big step up from incandescent bulbs when it comes to the environmental impact. Less energy usage means less fossil fuels need to be burned and less waste heat is introduced. And since they last much longer there is also overall less physical waste.

In the six years that I've used them, I've yet to have a single CFL burn out on me. Are you perhaps using them in a fully enclosed fixture? That's a big no-no for CFLs and LED bulbs alike, as the heat built-up inside can dramatically shorten their life-span. Also the starter circuit in any fluorescent light can only be used a set number of times, so turning these bulbs off and on too frequently can shorten their life as well.

How are we going to replace the incandescent bulb when the CFL has limitations. If they can't be used in inclosed fixtures what can you use in them? How can they be the future when they too have issues. We need something that can work in all fixtures, this is why the standard 60 watt bulb is still king.

 

[snberk103]

So you want a bunch of transformers sitting everywhere drawing power and generating heat all the time? ...

I wouldn't want those to be standard. Just wasting electricity and increasing the cost of a house. ....

The ones I've seen advertized all have auto switches that shut the USB circuit off when nothing is plugged in... so no 'vampire draw' issues.

I don't know if every outlet should incorporate, but certainly I'd like one in every room where you may use USB device.

CFL is still a big step up from incandescent bulbs when it comes to the environmental impact. Less energy usage means less fossil fuels need to be burned and less waste heat is introduced. And since they last much longer there is also overall less physical waste.

It's not that simple. While in use, a CFL bulb uses less electricity. However you also have to factor in the electricity used from start to finish. So, there is the power required to mine and refine the mercury (vs tungsten in a regular bulb). There is more glass involved in CFL, plus the inert gasses, plus the circuitry. Then you have to factor in the power required to safely dispose of the CFLs since they are considered a hazardous material. In some jurisdictions, if you break a bulb you are advised to evacuate the room for at least 24 hours to let the mercury vapours time to dissipate. Once you factor in the the whole lifecycle use of energy used the CFL doesn't rate so highly. And, those stats for lower electricity use and longer life are for bulbs that are left on for hours at a time. CFL that are turned on for short periods at a time burn out much faster, and don't safe any power since there is an initial spike when its turned on. We have a few CFLs in lights we leave on for an hour or more.. but most lights in our house are only turned on for 1/2 hour or less.

But wait... there's more... The heat from an incandescent is not necessarily bad. Heat is a bad thing if you are running your air conditioner, but heat from a bulb in the winter is just heat. In Vancouver, for example, electricity comes from green renewable hydro sources, and many homes get their heat from natural gas. So, in Vancouver you are replacing clean heat from incandescents with (relatively) dirty heat from natural gas.

I'm not saying that CFLs are evil. Just that the 'benefit - cost' calculations are not as clear cut as the industry would like us to believe.

Personally, I think in 10 to 20 years we will be dealing with a large waste mercury problem and will wonder why we ever let ourselves get rushed into CFLs.

In the six years that I've used them, I've yet to have a single CFL burn out on me. Are you perhaps using them in a fully enclosed fixture? ..., so turning these bulbs off and on too frequently can shorten their life as well.

So now we have to change out our fixtures and stop turning lights off to save electricity. Seems counter-intuitive to me, eh?

 

[tekboi]

Why? so the standards can change and your ports can become obsolete in the future?

 

[zioxide]

We should stop promoting CFL's they are just as harmful to the environment when you dispose the things. Everyone should be pushing LED lighting. I am lucky to get 18 months out of a CFL when they are rated for 7 years.

Only if you dispose of them improperly.

LED is the future but they are still much more expensive than CFL. Give it a few more years.

 

[0dev]

So you want a bunch of transformers sitting everywhere drawing power and generating heat all the time? I'd rather discuss having a DC loop as well as an AC loop in the home.

They should have switches so you can turn them on and off. All UK plugs have this already: