why safari is rubbish!

[anneleonard]

Myself and my mac-mates have generally come to the conclusion that safari still sucks, big time. Little things are starting to really niggle me! Especially now we're at version 1.0, these things should have been cleared up by now! Here's my list of grievances!

1.

What's this page all about? I keep getting tables embedded in their own tables!

2. 60-second time-out

3. strange way of completing URLs you're typing, it just completes a whole web address to a specific page when you start typing the beginning of the URL. then you have to go back and delete it. worse is when you've written the URL, just the domain name like forums.macrumors.com then just milliseconds before you press enter, it completes it to be a specific random page! Its infuriating, I've no idea that they've done this when I've never noticed this annoyance before.

4. sometimes when you try and reload a page by pressing enter at the end of the typed URL, it will just take you to some random other page that you've visited recently. why?! (and no i don't use snapback)

5. you can't choose the google results to come up in a new tab, only the one you're using, so your only option is to use the keyboard to make a new tab, then write in the google bar what you want.

6. the downloading method is rubbish, i always get things timing out, when they hardly ever do in camino. once they do time out, you can't start it again from where it stopped, only option is to download it all again.

7. it crashes *all* the time, especially when loading java applets like on news.bbc.co.uk. Its annoying, as I love that site but safari can't handle it a lot of the time.

8. Its rendering of tables is a bit of a joke- look at this - the red blocks should just be white, and there is nothing wrong with the coding.

8. just a lack of customisability that i'm used to from using mozilla in windows (i'm a recent switcher)

i think i'm going to switch to camino again even though it doesn't look as good as safari. anyone else find these things?

 

[scem0]

I love the words you use. Rubbish. Niggle.

hehe.

Um - I haven't gotten a chance to use Safari all that much, but from my general experiences, it is horrible compared to camino. The only times I've used it though were on my 333Mhz iMac, and apple software tends to favor faster machines.

But one thing safari is lacking that I cannot live without is mouse guestures. I swear, mouse guestures is the most innovative, useful browser feature out there.

If there are 2 things I can't live without they are:

Mouse Guestures
and
2 buttons and a scroll wheel.

scem0

 

[anneleonard]

Originally posted by scem0
I love the words you use. Rubbish. Niggle.

hehe.

I'm presuming this is because they're english words, yeh? I wasn't about to call it "Why safari is garbage / trash!" would i?! tehe.

But one thing safari is lacking that I cannot live without is mouse guestures. I swear, mouse guestures is the most innovative, useful browser feature out there.

Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by mouse gestures? and did you mean gestures or guestures? if you meant guestures, what kind of a word is that?

Anne.

 

[Porshuh944turbo]

Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by anneleonard
1.What's this page all about? I keep getting tables embedded in their own tables!

2. 60-second time-out

3. strange way of completing URLs you're typing, it just completes a whole web address to a specific page when you start typing the beginning of the URL. then you have to go back and delete it. worse is when you've written the URL, just the domain name like forums.macrumors.com then just milliseconds before you press enter, it completes it to be a specific random page! Its infuriating, I've no idea that they've done this when I've never noticed this annoyance before.

4. sometimes when you try and reload a page by pressing enter at the end of the typed URL, it will just take you to some random other page that you've visited recently. why?! (and no i don't use snapback)

5. you can't choose the google results to come up in a new tab, only the one you're using, so your only option is to use the keyboard to make a new tab, then write in the google bar what you want.

6. the downloading method is rubbish, i always get things timing out, when they hardly ever do in camino. once they do time out, you can't start it again from where it stopped, only option is to download it all again.

7. it crashes *all* the time, especially when loading java applets like on news.bbc.co.uk. Its annoying, as I love that site but safari can't handle it a lot of the time.

And have you told Apple about this??? cause um.. we can't fix it

 

[orangefoodie]

I agree heartily! Safari is a pile of rubbish, but none of my mac-friends will believe me even when I show them the evidence. (And I hate how the bookmark bar takes over the screen when you access it, instead of turning into a sidebar like Moz.) I can't stand the centered tabs in Camino, so I'm using the Mozilla Firebird OS X port at the moment.

As regarding Mouse Gestures... Another thing I like about Moz/Camino is that you can have the plug-in for it installed in a jiffy: http://optimoz.mozdev.org/gestures/ I can't stand them, others swear by them... it's a matter of personal preferences, really.

 

[benixau]

mouse gestures:
look for cocoa gestures on version tracker. i got them right now and they work with all cocoa apps - hang on a minute - isnt safari cocoa - WOW!

do your research before you have a go at a very good piece of VERSION 1.0 software ok? You only have a right to call it crap if you could do better.

BTW - if you use the WebKit framework you would be shooting your argument in the foot.

 

[tagy]

5. you can't choose the google results to come up in a new tab, only the one you're using, so your only option is to use the keyboard to make a new tab, then write in the google bar what you want.

press command-return after typing something into the search bar.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by anneleonard
8. Its rendering of tables is a bit of a joke- look at this - the red blocks should just be white, and there is nothing wrong with the coding.

There's actually a lot wrong with the code on that page. Between unclosed <td> and <a> tags and misordered closing tags it's ugly as hell.

It also automatically fails the W3C HTML validation because there is no DOCTYPE declaration.

Just because other browsers are more forgiving of web designers' mistakes doesn't mean Safari has table rendering problems.

 

[jelloshotsrule]

Re: Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
There's actually a lot wrong with the code on that page. Between unclosed <td> and <a> tags and misordered closing tags it's ugly as hell.

It also automatically fails the W3C HTML validation because there is no DOCTYPE declaration.

Just because other browsers are more forgiving of web designers' mistakes doesn't mean Safari has table rendering problems.

oh snap!


i personally use safari about 90% of the time, with camino being 8% or so, and ie the rest (and getting smaller)...

the google thing- you have a google tab in the browser... i think there's one other browser that has this (forget which, you all probably know better than i)... so, safari has a step up on all but 1 or 2 other browsers. sure, an option to open it in a new tab automatically would be nice, but as someone else pointed out, you can do it...

i haven't noticed terrible rendering of pages.

the auto-complete thing sucks for sure, but i have similar problems in other browsers. apple should fix it, but it doesn't make it inherently much worse than other browsers who have different problems, just ones that maybe you're more used to.

my downloads work fine. and i've never used a browser that has had a resume option....

it also rarely crashes for me.

 

[scem0]

Re: Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
There's actually a lot wrong with the code on that page. Between unclosed <td> and <a> tags and misordered closing tags it's ugly as hell.

It also automatically fails the W3C HTML validation because there is no DOCTYPE declaration.

Just because other browsers are more forgiving of web designers' mistakes doesn't mean Safari has table rendering problems.

The fact that other browsers can render it when Safari can't is what makes safari bad.

Yeah i meant gestures. I just can't spell.

And I don't see how anyone could NOT like them. Once you start using them, you can't stop.

And I didn't know about the app that allowed guestures in any cocoa app, then again I don't use a mac...

scem0

 

[mnkeybsness]

Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by anneleonard
1. What's this page all about? I keep getting tables embedded in their own tables!

i've never seen that problem before with any version of safari

Originally posted by anneleonard
2. 60-second time-out

if any server takes more than 60 seconds to respond then it is either offline or just too dang slow and not worth seeing.

Originally posted by anneleonard
3. strange way of completing URLs you're typing, it just completes a whole web address to a specific page when you start typing the beginning of the URL. then you have to go back and delete it. worse is when you've written the URL, just the domain name like forums.macrumors.com then just milliseconds before you press enter, it completes it to be a specific random page! Its infuriating, I've no idea that they've done this when I've never noticed this annoyance before.

the autocomplete URLs refers you back to the last page you visited starting with what you have typed. if you don't want all the rest of it and just want "forums. macrumors.com" then type that and immediately press delete when it tries to complete the URL

Originally posted by anneleonard 4. sometimes when you try and reload a page by pressing enter at the end of the typed URL, it will just take you to some random other page that you've visited recently. why?! (and no i don't use snapback)

this has to do with the autocomplete...make sure that nothign is popping up after the URL you want to reload...or else just press the "reload page" button

Originally posted by anneleonard 5. you can't choose the google results to come up in a new tab, only the one you're using, so your only option is to use the keyboard to make a new tab, then write in the google bar what you want.

hit CMD+T before you start your search and a new tab will open that will open google in, or else hit CMD+Enter instead of just Enter.

Originally posted by anneleonard 6. the downloading method is rubbish, i always get things timing out, when they hardly ever do in camino. once they do time out, you can't start it again from where it stopped, only option is to download it all again.

this is either a problem with your ISP or the server you are downloading from, not safari's fault.

Originally posted by anneleonard 7. it crashes *all* the time, especially when loading java applets like on news.bbc.co.uk. Its annoying, as I love that site but safari can't handle it a lot of the time.

i agree that safari does have a problem with a lot of java.

Originally posted by anneleonard 8. Its rendering of tables is a bit of a joke- look at this - the red blocks should just be white, and there is nothing wrong with the coding.

as Rower_CPU said, the code on that page is horrible. it's the webmaster's fault.

Originally posted by anneleonard 8. just a lack of customisability that i'm used to from using mozilla in windows (i'm a recent switcher)

all i can say is deal with it or else check out this site for some safari hacks.

Originally posted by anneleonard i think i'm going to switch to camino again even though it doesn't look as good as safari. anyone else find these things?

go ahead. use what you prefer to use. there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[jelloshotsrule]

Re: Re: Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by scem0
The fact that other browsers can render it when Safari can't is what makes safari bad.

not true. as rower has touted repeatedly (ad nauseam? ), the fact that some browsers bend to work around sites is just extending the problem of web designers not adhering to standards. it's harder for ____ browser to bend to millions of sites than it is for those sites to adhere to standards set.

apple is consistently trying to support open source and standards in various cross platform things. this is just another example.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Re: Re: Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by scem0
The fact that other browsers can render it when Safari can't is what makes safari bad.

This statement outlines everything that's wrong with web browser use and web development right now.

Safari is correctly displaying what the code tells it to. Certain browsers, usually IE, interpret invalid code to display what the web master may have intended but not what the code actually says.

Do you expect your car to run on sugar water? No. So why do you expect your web browser to correctly display an invalidly coded page?

Saying it's Safari's fault is letting web designers off the hook for not designing with web standards.

[edit:

as rower has touted repeatedly (ad nauseam? )

Damn straight. ]

 

[scem0]

Re: Re: Re: Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
This statement outlines everything that's wrong with web browser use and web development right now.

Safari is correctly displaying what the code tells it to. Certain browsers, usually IE, interpret invalid code to display what the web master may have intended but not what the code actually says.

Do you expect your car to run on sugar water? No. So why do you expect your web browser to correctly display an invalidly coded page?

Saying it's Safari's fault is letting web designers off the hook for not designing with web standards.

[edit:


Damn straight. ]

I would love to have my car run on sugar water.

I would love to have my browser render badly coded web pages.

Its not like someone is going to decide to recode/change their code on the their webpage because safari can't render it...

Its as simple as that.

scem0

 

[Rower_CPU]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by scem0
I would love to have my car run on sugar water.

I would love to have my browser render badly coded web pages.

Its not like someone is going to decide to recode/change their code on the their webpage because safari can't render it...

Its as simple as that.

scem0

No, it's a simple as web designers being lazy and their bad code catching up with them. They will have to do it sooner or later if they want their visitors to see the pages as intended and to avoid accessibility litigation, it may as well be sooner.

 

[benixau]

Re: Re: Re: why safari is rubbish!

Originally posted by scem0

And I didn't know about the app that allowed guestures in any cocoa app, then again I don't use a mac...

scem0

pssst: dont bash macs until you have used one for a bit. Saying that in here can lead to suicide

 

[iEric]

1. i dont have that problem with the tables on my mac..and i dont think anybody else does cause if they did, i think they would have fixed it already. especially if it happened on the macrumors.com site, someone would have said something a looooong time ago.

2. Every browser has a timeout. Stop being lazy and press Return again.

and i don't even wanna read ur other complaints, but if you think safari is rubbish, then try building ur own browser. and we'll see.