Will Apple help you out with Windows issues?

[network23]

I'll soon be ordering a new Mac Pro with 8800GT. I've seen several of the threads here about gaming problems with the 8800GT running in Windows.

Since Apple says they do not provide technical support for Windows, will they help you out if you have a problem on the Windows side? I mean, if games are locking up, will Apple lend a hand or say "sorry" unless you can get the problem to exhibit under OS X?

I'm just concerned about what my options would be if (knock on wood) I start having problems.

 

[killmoms]

They will not do anything. If they can't replicate the problem in OS X (with software that comes with OS X, no extra or third-party software), they will not help you.

This is why I sold my previous Mac Pro with a bum X1900XT.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Try here. Try the Apple Discussions. I wouldn't say that a Store employee or online representative would help you at all.

Definitely post in "Windows on the Mac" here for help. Great bunch of folks.

 

[network23]

Try here. Try the Apple Discussions. I wouldn't say that a Store employee or online representative would help you at all.

Definitely post in "Windows on the Mac" here for help. Great bunch of folks.

Of course I would exhaust all avenues available online to solve the problem, but my question was more to the possibility of it being a bad card, with issues that (for one reason or another) only showed up in Windows -- and how many hoops (if there are any hoops at all) would need to be dived (dove?) through to get it fixed/replaced.

 

[killmoms]

Of course I would exhaust all avenues available online to solve the problem, but my question was more to the possibility of it being a bad card, with issues that (for one reason or another) only showed up in Windows -- and how many hoops (if there are any hoops at all) would need to be dived (dove?) through to get it fixed/replaced.

Short of maybe performing sexual favors on the Apple Genius of your choice, neither the Apple Store nor Apple Phone support would give me a repair request for an issue that manifested only in Windows.

I guess you could go to a third-party Mac service center. I had that option because I live in a big city but I'd imagine it'd be significantly more onerous if you weren't somewhere like L.A. (which still manages to maintain 3rd party Mac resellers/service centers).

 

[GotPro]

Of course I would exhaust all avenues available online to solve the problem, but my question was more to the possibility of it being a bad card, with issues that (for one reason or another) only showed up in Windows -- and how many hoops (if there are any hoops at all) would need to be dived (dove?) through to get it fixed/replaced.

If it was a bad card... you would most likely be able to replicate the problem in OS X.

Bad hardware is bad hardware... it shouldn't work in ANY OS.

Asking APPLE to support Windows is like buying a Mustang, throwing a Chevy LS6 engine in it... and taking it to Ford when it doesn't drive right.

 

[killmoms]

If it was a bad card... you would most likely be able to replicate the problem in OS X.

Bad hardware is bad hardware... it shouldn't work in ANY OS.

Asking APPLE to support Windows is like buying a Mustang, throwing a Chevy LS6 engine in it... and taking it to Ford when it doesn't drive right.

But nothing that ships with OS X will work out all parts of a graphics card like a 3D game. When you're firing through all vertex/pixel shaders and constantly pushing the card's limits you're more likely to trigger "faulty hardware" conditions. But, the cards are designed to be used in that way, so any problems that then manifest might still be "bad hardware," just the kinds of problems that only appear when the card is used to its fullest potential.

That's the exact problem I had—using the card in Windows for 3D gaming would eventually cause hard freezes/reboots, but then IN OS X the card would display random noise/graphic corruption on windows/the desktop. I was able to take screenshots of it too, suggesting it was corruption in the card's texture buffers, not just the frame buffer out to the screen. But despite screenshots and being able to consistently recreate the problem by running a game, Apple still refused to support the issue... which was especially galling as by the point I was having that problem, the X1900XT was approaching 2 years old as a piece of hardware and would've been incredibly cheap for them to replace.

In any event, that was the first time I was dissatisfied with Apple's support. It led me to sell the machine and its AppleCare to someone else and pick up a second-hand MacBook Pro for cheap.

 

[GotPro]

But nothing that ships with OS X will work out all parts of a graphics card like a 3D game.

That's the exact problem I had—using the card in Windows for 3D gaming would eventually cause hard freezes/reboots, but then IN OS X the card would display random noise/graphic corruption on windows/the desktop.

The you obviously had an issue with the card to begin with in OS X.

If it's displaying random noise / graphic corruption... there is hard evidence there is a problem right there!

And there are plenty of 3D Games for OS X.

 

[killmoms]

The you obviously had an issue with the card to begin with in OS X.

If it's displaying random noise / graphic corruption... there is hard evidence there is a problem right there!

And there are plenty of 3D Games for OS X.

It's only doing that after it gets sufficiently worked out by a game. I even asked about the "if it was happening in a game in OS X, would that make a difference?" I was about ready to buy some $50 game for OS X if that'd convince them. But I was told that they would not support that either. If they couldn't make it happen using only built-in OS X apps (several running games of Chess, terminals cranking out loops to max the CPU, lots of Grapher instances, that sort of thing), they wouldn't replace the card.

The real issue is that the Apple Store is frigid, so the computer's in a cold environment, off for probably a day before they decide to test it, so it starts cold. Then they run tests that don't sufficiently work out the graphics card, and are surprised when they can't replicate the issue.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this process, per se, but I will say that Dell's policy of "if you say it's broken, we'll send you the part/fix it no qustions asked" is a lot more appealing. Apple is a hugely profitable company, they could afford to replace a part or two. If they find that my card is fine according to their tests, I'm sure they could throw it in the "refurbished/works" pile and use it to replace some other poor sap's card.

 

[GotPro]

Then you haven't gone far enough up the Apple chain.

I agree... there should be easier ways to test the card. If that is what they are telling you, they are about off their nuts.

Might I suggest getting a nice OS X Game... and trying it?

I had the same issue on my 8800GT (well, not exactly)... it would lock the computer up when playing Sims2 after a few minutes.

I talked to Apple... and AppleCare rep said is absolutely should not be doing that.

Even though it was the Sims. Maybe you just spoke to an idiot?

I had to go up through the escalation team until I got to speak to Executive Relations. It's a WHOLE NOTHER BALLGAME THERE.

Turns out, the card was overheating for some reason.

I installed SMCFANCTRL 2.1 and notched the fans up a bit... and nary a problem.

They offered to take the machine back and see why it wasn't boosting the fans appropriately, but it wasn't worth it to me... everything else was perfect... I'm fine with manually adjusting the machine for the time being!

Try that and see what happens.

 

[UltraNEO*]

I'll soon be ordering a new Mac Pro with 8800GT. I've seen several of the threads here about gaming problems with the 8800GT running in Windows.

Since Apple says they do not provide technical support for Windows, will they help you out if you have a problem on the Windows side? I mean, if games are locking up, will Apple lend a hand or say "sorry" unless you can get the problem to exhibit under OS X?

I'm just concerned about what my options would be if (knock on wood) I start having problems.

Sorry.. I just think this is a brainless question.

Apple will give support on the Mac hardware, so long as you can replicate the problem within MacOSX, because Apple's main priority is providing you a working system for their OS (which isn't windows), and they're offering you (the user) the ability to use windows for compatibility reasons with windows only software.

The bottom line is, Apple doesn't have to offer windows compatibility with it's intel based Macs at all! You know?

So, if you have a faulty card but you can't replicate the problem in Apple's own operating system, then it's not really faulty... Not according to Apple. Then again, most video cards that come with Mac's also come with Mac firmware.

 

[network23]

Are there any apps for OS X that stress-test the video cards? I know of several on the Windows side, and having one that would run a card through its paces would help anyone needing to make sure their card was working to its full potential.

 

[GotPro]

You could set Cinebench to run non-stop?

Or would that not stress the card?

 

[killmoms]

Turns out, the card was overheating for some reason.

I installed SMCFANCTRL 2.1 and notched the fans up a bit... and nary a problem.

They offered to take the machine back and see why it wasn't boosting the fans appropriately, but it wasn't worth it to me... everything else was perfect... I'm fine with manually adjusting the machine for the time being!

Try that and see what happens.

I suspected the problem was heat-based, but if the default fan speeds can't cool the card effectively something else is wrong in the first place.

In any case it's a moot point now as I no longer own the machine. My pre-SR MacBook Pro spins its fans up something fierce when I'm playing games, but at least it doesn't crash. I plan on building a gaming PC at some point in the future but until then this machine (and my Xbox 360) will suffice.

 

[slackpacker]

Simple answer - NO

But here or a good windows message board is a good place for help