Will Haswell (2013) solve RMBP issues

[jgbr]

Two questions/thoughts for debate:

1) Presuming Apple opts for 'Haswell' intel cpu's in its 2013 15inch RMBP etc will this solve the issues that the 1st Generation RMBP seem to be having?

I am presuming they will release a 2nd generation RMBP which will iron out the issues that some people have been reporting such as lag, hardware/software conflict, LG v Samsung etc.

This is on the presumption that the Ivybridge GPU is incapable of truly driving the retina screen and Haswells will.

2) The general impression is that the 1st Generation retina MBP was almost a 'beta' (i am using the words of other posters complaining of problems) for apple. Do people feel the software/hardware issues raised will feedback and be solved in the 2nd generation?

(I could link the hundreds of posts on here about the retinas issues as evidence)

Thoughts?

 

[skaertus]

Two questions/thoughts for debate:

1) Presuming Apple opts for 'Haswell' intel cpu's in its 2013 15inch RMBP etc will this solve the issues that the 1st Generation RMBP seem to be having?

I am presuming they will release a 2nd generation RMBP which will iron out the issues that some people have been reporting such as lag, hardware/software conflict, LG v Samsung etc.

This is on the presumption that the Ivybridge GPU is incapable of truly driving the retina screen and Haswells will.

Depends on the issues.

First, Apple will release rMBPs with Haswell next year. I see no reason why it wouldn't.

Haswell will reportedly have a much faster integrated video card than Ivy Bridge (about 50% faster, according to Intel). Therefore, the integrated video card in Haswell (presumably HD 5000) will be able to handle much better retina resolutions than the integrated video card in Ivy Bridge (HD 4000).

However, it tells nothing about the performance of NVIDIA cards. The 15" rMBP also comes with a dedicated video card (GT 650M) from NVIDIA, and the sheer fact that Ivy Bridge processors will be replaced by Haswell tells nothing about the performance of the dedicated video card. It is likely, however, that next year's rMBP will come with a brand-new NVIDIA graphics card, faster and more capable than GT 650M.

Hardware / software conflict? What are you talking about exactly?

Samsung / LG? Well, due to all the legal battles that are going on around the world, Apple may dump Samsung and go with LG (or maybe Sharp) for display production.

2) The general impression is that the 1st Generation retina MBP was almost a 'beta' (i am using the words of other posters complaining of problems) for apple. Do people feel the software/hardware issues raised will feedback and be solved in the 2nd generation?

(I could link the hundreds of posts on here about the retinas issues as evidence)

Thoughts?

What kinds of hardware / software issues are you talking about?

 

[jgbr]

Well the image retention and lag issues that so many on this forums speak of.

Some may consider that this is a 1st generation of a new line hence the problems or that simply software is not ready for retina yet.

So with Second generation still 6months away this should buy some software dev time

 

[nontroppo]

Apart from the Samsung vs. LG display issues (which has nothing to do with Haswell), all other performance problems are software based, so the most important thing that can happen is Apple start to invest more resources into improving OS X's display architecture, which is sadly stuck several years in the past...

 

[pgiguere1]

Lag/scrolling issues simply mean bad optimization of Safari (and other browsers) that handle most load on a single CPU thread.

This is a shame when we have computers with 4 cores and 8 threads, but there was previously no pressure to optimize browser CPU usage since performance at non-Retina resolutions have always been pretty good.

Apple saw the need to improve Safari's performance for Retina displays, and that's why they though about using CoreAnimation for GPU-accelerated scrolling in Safari 6. They may have though that it would have been enough to avoid lag, but it was not.

A single CPU thread still gets most of the load and that's where the bottleneck seems to be. Apple is currently working on a new version of Safari with much better optimization. You can already get an early taste of it by downloading WebKit's nightly build. It's an in-progress, open-source version of Safari's next version.

WebKit fixed the lag perfectly for me, and it's just a matter of time before it gets a stable release which will probably be Safari 6.1. It's unclear whether Apple has improved CPU threading or GPU acceleration with it (or both), but it works.

 

[MCAsan]

Well the image retention and lag issues that so many on this forums speak of.

Some may consider that this is a 1st generation of a new line hence the problems or that simply software is not ready for retina yet.

When i am out in the real world I do not meet folks with rMBP problems. We have two or them and know lots of folks who also have them. If the problems were endemic....don't you think Apple critics would have it smeared all over newspapers and magazines? Where but here do you get the impression that rMBPs have a high problem rate?

 

[DIMEZ]

I have had mine since monday and I see none of the issue you are talking about??! no lag...i do have a samsung screen. But my laptop was manufactured in week 46. This thing is perfect

 

[SpitUK]

Two questions/thoughts for debate:

1) Presuming Apple opts for 'Haswell' intel cpu's in its 2013 15inch RMBP etc will this solve the issues that the 1st Generation RMBP seem to be having?

I am presuming they will release a 2nd generation RMBP which will iron out the issues that some people have been reporting such as lag, hardware/software conflict, LG v Samsung etc.

This is on the presumption that the Ivybridge GPU is incapable of truly driving the retina screen and Haswells will.

2) The general impression is that the 1st Generation retina MBP was almost a 'beta' (i am using the words of other posters complaining of problems) for apple. Do people feel the software/hardware issues raised will feedback and be solved in the 2nd generation?

(I could link the hundreds of posts on here about the retinas issues as evidence)

Thoughts?

Do you own one?

 

[jgbr]

I think the Lag and screen retention issues are well document on and offline

 

[SpitUK]

Lag/scrolling issues simply mean bad optimization of Safari (and other browsers) that handle most load on a single CPU thread.

This is a shame when we have computers with 4 cores and 8 threads, but there was previously no pressure to optimize browser CPU usage since performance at non-Retina resolutions have always been pretty good.

Apple saw the need to improve Safari's performance for Retina displays, and that's why they though about using CoreAnimation for GPU-accelerated scrolling in Safari 6. They may have though that it would have been enough to avoid lag, but it was not.

A single CPU thread still gets most of the load and that's where the bottleneck seems to be. Apple is currently working on a new version of Safari with much better optimization. You can already get an early taste of it by downloading WebKit's nightly build. It's an in-progress, open-source version of Safari's next version.

WebKit fixed the lag perfectly for me, and it's just a matter of time before it gets a stable release which will probably be Safari 6.1. It's unclear whether Apple has improved CPU threading or GPU acceleration with it (or both), but it works.

Just installed that latest webkit and a slightly laggy website such as http://www.polygon.com is now perfect!! Thanks

 

[stevelam]

Lag/scrolling issues simply mean bad optimization of Safari (and other browsers) that handle most load on a single CPU thread.

This is a shame when we have computers with 4 cores and 8 threads, but there was previously no pressure to optimize browser CPU usage since performance at non-Retina resolutions have always been pretty good.

Apple saw the need to improve Safari's performance for Retina displays, and that's why they though about using CoreAnimation for GPU-accelerated scrolling in Safari 6. They may have though that it would have been enough to avoid lag, but it was not.

A single CPU thread still gets most of the load and that's where the bottleneck seems to be. Apple is currently working on a new version of Safari with much better optimization. You can already get an early taste of it by downloading WebKit's nightly build. It's an in-progress, open-source version of Safari's next version.

WebKit fixed the lag perfectly for me, and it's just a matter of time before it gets a stable release which will probably be Safari 6.1. It's unclear whether Apple has improved CPU threading or GPU acceleration with it (or both), but it works.

too bad most people would rather use chrome and firefox and performance on both of these for RMBP is horrible.

 

[NewishMacGuy]

There's little doubt that the rMBP pushed the screen manufacturing and graphics capabilities to the edge, and as such it was a little bit of a public release beta project, though largely a successful one. As are many others, I'm waiting until v2.

But the real question in my mind is whether or not Apple drops the dGPU in the rMBP-15 with the Haswell graphics. I hope they don't, but I think it's better than 50/50 that they do. It just feels like they're itching to go all iGPU across the whole lineup.

----------

too bad most people would rather use chrome and firefox and performance on both of these for RMBP is horrible.

I'd rather use Safari, but the cookie/privacy handling is so incredibly poor compared to Firefox (and even IE) that its just untenable.

 

[Mercenary]

Everyone assumes the new model will have Haswell, it may not.

Everyone believes the marketing which says "Upto 50%". Real world is often much lower.

Also remember this, people come to forums to ask for help and vent their frustration. Not to say "Hey, it all works great". I for one have the base spec rMBP and have had no issues at all. Speed is fine, no lag, no IR, no ghosting. Dont just assume the next model will be perfect and the issues some have affect us all.

If you want one, get one now. The next model is half a year away. But Oh!, they will be bringing out a new model just a year after that, and a year after that and so on. You will be waiting a long time.

 

[dusk007]

I doubt there is any chance at all that they will drop dGPU in the 15". Even if the fastest Haswell would be 100% faster than the current it would still be way short of the 650M and any 750M that would show. Especially in higher details the Intel GPUs do quite poorly and loose more performance.

What a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that Intel said there will be various versions of the Haswell GPU. GT1/2/3 and those with different on package VRAM of up to 128mb.
Given how much space that VRAM and the GT3 (which is essentially a double HD4000) would use it is quite possible that only the very mobile dual cores will even get those. Quad cores might not even be sold with the faster Haswell GPUs but rather slower ones as it can be expected that a dGPU will fit into any system that a Quad Core does.

Even if the top of the line Haswell GPU is really fast the one that ends up in a 15" Quad Core notebook might not be all that much better than the current gen.
Some sources say that the dedicated VRAM parts will cost some irrational 40+ bucks on top of regular models. If that is the case it seems doubtful that a Notebook that has a dGPU anyway would get such a useless extra expensive iGPU.
It would also seem odd if Intel would add on all the mainstream quad core chips those expensive iGPUs. They only really make sense in ultrabooks where dGPU simple don't fit. There the best possible iGPU is best.

 

[CausticPuppy]

Lag/scrolling issues simply mean bad optimization of Safari (and other browsers) that handle most load on a single CPU thread.

Yeah it's interesting that so many threads about the rMBP (particularly the 13"), and even some reviews like The Verge, blamed the lag on the integrated GPU when it actually has very little to do with the GPU at all.

It is by and large due to software optimizations, or lack thereof. Safari is already way better than Chrome on retina machines, regardless of GPU... and it sounds like Safari will be even better with an upcoming patch. Hopefully chrome will too.

 

[zainiak]

Edit: accidental post. Nothing to see here