I just received my new rMBP and like most, I have an LG....and like most, I also have some of that ghosting. It does take 15 mins of the checkerboard test on screen though to reproduce a light effect so I don't know how concerned I should be. I do think 15 mins is a bit sort of a time frame to be demonstrating ghosting but I'm thinking I'm going to keep it....as I don't expect it being a real problem long term (or at least hoping it won't). But if I DO decide to keep it, is there any chance they can refuse to replace my screen in the future claiming it's testing "within their specs"? What would you guys do? Is the whole Apple roulette really worth it? I love everything else about it and it's in perfect condition - I'm afraid I may get some banged up replacements as some of the others have, and the chance of landing a Sammy at this point seems slim to none unless anyone knows of any tips/tricks???
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Will I screw myself later if I don't return my rMBP?
- Thread starter Evev12
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I'm actually taking mine in tomorrow, so I'll find out how they're handling these in the local store then.
Yeah, let me know how it goes, I always like to hear. The thing is...I'm definitely not unhappy with it...if anything, it's more the fear from all the posts I've been reading and the thought that it may get worse. I'm also scared they might refuse to replace my screen (thus the reason for the post). My theory is...as long as I can't notice outside of these checkerboard tests, what reason do I really have to dislike OTHER than fear of future issues. Everything about it is great. Honestly, I think its all these posts that have gotten me more worried than anything...if I never read them I may have never noticed. I've also read that IPCs tend to have this problem. As much as I'd love a Samsung replacement, I'd be more than content with a guarantee from Apple that they will replace my screen, "spec" aside, if anything happens moving fwd. I'm guessing that in the next couple of months or by mid next year, they'll have a valid fix for the problem. I was thinking about writing one of the managers an email for a replacement approval to keep for documentation, indicating that they will in fact replace it if anything worsens...you guys think that will help? Is it overkill?
Just keep your perfect laptop. You are producing an image that you might never see in actual use. IR is not a defect.
I was at the Navy Exchange this weekend to purchase my cMBP. Their return policy on new Apple Notebooks: No returns! If something is wrong with the item, return to Apple under warranty. They said that Mac have such a very low defect rate, you can not return if opened.
In your case, the laptop is not defective.
I find it hard to believe that people are buying a very expensive laptop, knowing that it does demonstrate the non defect IR and then want to gamble just to get a Samsung screen.
How is it not a defect?
People do not expect this of the product, and it not advertised anywhere that they should. Not only that, many screens don't have it or do to a greater or lesser extent. It's not a repeatable, quantifiable property like the response time or resolution. It's an artefact of the process.
It would appear that the composition of LGs LCD compounds is not as good as Samsungs. LCDs work by having these compounds line up in a particular direction, either blocking or allowing light to pass through (like a window blind). The compounds are also designed to align with whatever electric field they're in, so you can twist them around and control if they're open or shut (so to speak).
It's a difficult thing, though: the molecules need to be perfectly aligned (as in a crystal), but also fluid to move (hence the name liquid crystal, as it has properties of both). Not only that, but they need to keep their shape and not warp at all at higher temperatures (the molecule needs to be stable so as not to lose shape). If the LCs degrade at warmer temperatures, they might not react as quickly to the electric field, or might not react as fully (staying half-open or half-shut, giving image retention). This is one of the many ways it can arise.
Image retention is a defect. Samsung appear to have a more stable LC compound, although of course they're all proprietary so there's no way of knowing.
So...you leave your display to show a checkerboard for 15 minutes and then are actually surprised when you see some sort of image retention? And now you're all panicky because there was a 'light effect'?
You gotta be kidding. What did you really expect to happen? Let me guess...you're the kind of person who mixes his colours with his whites and then wonders why his white socks are now pink?
You did a 'test' that in no way reflects real-world use and which was designed to guarantee failure. I'd say you've got nothing to worry about as far as the ghosting is concerned.
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Why don't you stare at a checkerboard design for 15 minutes and see what happens? Does that mean your eyes are defective? Nope. What about your brain, because it's what's creating the result.
If it ghosts after a second or two, sure. If it ghosts your desktop images when you have something else running full screen, sure. But a checkerboard for 15 minutes? Nope.
Low defect rate?
This is not true. Thinking you are running company and you outsource many companies oversea for many parts across so many countries. You try to control the quality of your products. It is totally hard thing to do so. You don't really have control from end to end and it is very difficult except you produce products in house. This is what apple is facing right now. It is a trade off from outsourcing while Apple gets higher income.
So in other words, you're now upset because you saw something that you may never even have noticed during the lifetime of the machine, if someone hadn't told you to go looking for it.
I completely agree....people should not expect this (especially at this price point). However, just playing devil's advocate, I think that we've also been conditioned to expect attention to every...single....detail...and nothing short when it comes to Apple, as that's the bar they set. But that can be a tricky balance when releasing such aggressively new technologies.
There is something big to be said that the Sammy's aren't having the same problems. I completely agree, the LG's don't appear to be of the same build quality...and it's naturally frustrating knowing that there's a computer that is working more "the way it should" and you can continue the lotto game until you get one...but that's just a bad formula all around.
Lastly...I wonder....is it a defect or is it actually the result of the new implementation of new technology? I did hear IPS's tend to have ghosting in general, and it's not permanent, it's only temporary, so I actually wonder if it's a defect or just an EFFECT of new tech. FWIW, I just realized my iPad 2 has it pretty BAD...but still, after a year it has never gotten to a level of me being able to recognize it unless I look for it.
Getting back to the question though...can the genius bar deny me a new screen if it gets bad saying that it's "within spec"???
And you wonder why Apple's prices are high?
All you idiots returning your laptops for a non-defect and Apple is sticking to their over-generous return policy and it's costing them money.
I smudged my glasses today because I rubbed them with my finger. I tried to take them back to the Optometrist but he said that you aren't supposed to rub them with your finger.
Real world usage folks... My LG rMBP is fine and I am never going to run a stupid checkerboard test to prove to myself that it isn't.
All you idiots returning your laptops for a non-defect and Apple is sticking to their over-generous return policy and it's costing them money.
I smudged my glasses today because I rubbed them with my finger. I tried to take them back to the Optometrist but he said that you aren't supposed to rub them with your finger.
Real world usage folks... My LG rMBP is fine and I am never going to run a stupid checkerboard test to prove to myself that it isn't.
Does this issue occur when you use it normally? I mean leaving a checkerboard image sitting there for an extended time may not be considered real world usage.
I've not tested mine rMBP and I have little desire too. It works as I expect it too and why run some sort of test that may only aggravate me.
You do realize that if you exchange the laptop and you get a Samsung it does not solve your problem. Everyone here hypes up the Samsung display to be honest both LG and Samsung have their own issues but at the end of the end the LG produces a better picture quality then a Samsung panel. Samsung can have dead pixel, light bleeding on the corners, etc. LG is compared to Samsung is more realistic on colours! You can ask anyone here the LG panel produces a deeper black and it is alot brighter then the Samsung! Me personally if I get a Samsung panel I will return it for a LG. Why do you think Apple wants to deal with LG after all =)
Mines going in Saturday too.
I've suddenly got 6 dead pixels appear out of the blue as well as IR that appears to be getting worse.
I checked for dead pixels when I bought it in august, there was 0.
So in 2 months to go from 0 dead to 6 somethings not right.
What are the chances they will change the panel?
I've suddenly got 6 dead pixels appear out of the blue as well as IR that appears to be getting worse.
I checked for dead pixels when I bought it in august, there was 0.
So in 2 months to go from 0 dead to 6 somethings not right.
What are the chances they will change the panel?
It's not only the checkboard : it happens with text and high-contrast things like elements on a website.
It is something I might encounter in normal use: say I'm reading something in Safari full-screen, then go to make a cup of tea or use the loo. Then I scroll down in the article and can see outlines of what I was reading before? Nope, not acceptable. I could work around it by always remembering to shut the lid, but again that's just an unacceptable amount of fragility that I don't a expect to have to worry about.
It is a defect. The variability alone tells you that. If it's only a few batches, Apple should be switching them out without hassle. If its a larger quality issue, Apple need to think about what can be done to correct it and how they can alleviate it in customers having issues. What they're doing now (denial) is insulting to their customers.
So to answer your question...yes. It does exist outside the test. I have just set my desktop as a solid gray and go about using it as I normally do, then every so often I'll check to see if there's any retention, in which case, there almost always is. It's light, and probably not discernable on any regular/more colorful images/applications but it's definitely there. If you are in Safari for example and shrink the window a bit, after 15 mins+, you'll notice retention on solid colors. Is it problem? I don't know. I don't THINK it'll be but I don't wanna go based off my assumptions, I'd like some guarantee that if it worsens, they'll replace the screen...no spec testing.....no questions asked!
As far as Apple using LG now...I think it's actually more of a political move on their part, not a quality thing. It SHOULD be because they deem them better and prefer them over Samsung, but it feels like it may be due to all these suits lately and Apple trying to make a point. But I might be completely wrong (and actually hope I am).
Lastly...color is extremely important to me. That's why I purchased the retina...not actually because of the retina resolution itself but because of it's color maintenance/viewing angles. The color shift on the cMBP's from shifting your head even an inch always drove me crazy! It was my biggest pepeeve...I never knew what I was looking at. And it would screw with countless prints. If LG has that much of an edge in the color category I might be better off holding out and trying to get some sort of guarantee from Apple that replacement is always an option (no questions asked).
As far as Apple using LG now...I think it's actually more of a political move on their part, not a quality thing. It SHOULD be because they deem them better and prefer them over Samsung, but it feels like it may be due to all these suits lately and Apple trying to make a point. But I might be completely wrong (and actually hope I am).
Lastly...color is extremely important to me. That's why I purchased the retina...not actually because of the retina resolution itself but because of it's color maintenance/viewing angles. The color shift on the cMBP's from shifting your head even an inch always drove me crazy! It was my biggest pepeeve...I never knew what I was looking at. And it would screw with countless prints. If LG has that much of an edge in the color category I might be better off holding out and trying to get some sort of guarantee from Apple that replacement is always an option (no questions asked).
So I took my rMBP in for the IR issue today - the Genius booted up their diagnostics, started the video test, then just decided to go ahead and order a replacement screen (I had some photos on my iPhone of the IR issue).
In my case, it wasn't taking 15 minutes of a static image on the screen to see IR, but just 3-4 minutes (sometimes less), and on multiple backgrounds. Until last week, I had not seen any IR whatsoever, so something changed in the panel itself at that time.
In my case, it wasn't taking 15 minutes of a static image on the screen to see IR, but just 3-4 minutes (sometimes less), and on multiple backgrounds. Until last week, I had not seen any IR whatsoever, so something changed in the panel itself at that time.