just a thought - the reason M3 MacBook Airs weren’t launched is that they probably run too hot for the fanless chassis of the MBA. Hence we just got a full fat 14 inch chassis with one fan driving the M3. Hope apple solves this soon.
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Will M3 be too hot for a fanless MBA
- Thread starter kshitijshah
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My personal theories on this are
- the 15" MBA has not sold as well as expected and they need to shift the stock
- The yields on M3 chips are not so good (M3 Pro base has less CPU/GPU cores suggesting binning is needed) so Apple can't use it in the highest-selling model
- Apple wants to maintain it's release/event cadence - I expect the M3 MBA/Mini to come in "early 2024"
#2: truth, as the Air line is Apple's best-selling computers; M3 yields cannot handle that
#3: M3 Air is now a second-class citizen; and expect 8GB to be the base, following the lead of the Pro models
I happily recently bought a 16GB M2 MBA, and I feel absolutely no FOMO whatsoever; I love the Air form-factor best.
And if the current fanless Air chassis cannot handle a hot chip, then EITHER Apple needs extra time to re-engineer the case OR Apple just killed the Air line last night in favor of the Pro chassis.
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I think unless you will utilise the new GPU features (mesh-shading, RT) there is probably no reason to wait for an M3 MBA, especially if a good deal on an M2 model comes up (but I would suggest holding on for another week to see the review benchmarks for the based M3 MBP).
Definitely not run too hot for the Air - as M3 can deliver, according to Apple, the same CPU and GPU performance as the M1's peak at half the watts. Same improvement trend as we saw with the M2.
A fanless Air with M3 will throttle if used for extended time at max. throughput - but, it's a pretty safe bet, as was the case for the M2 vs M1 in the Air, that it'll throttle later and to a lesser degree.
And no, Apple is not going to massively improve the Air's passive cooling for the Air upgrade to M3 because .... upsell 🤣
A fanless Air with M3 will throttle if used for extended time at max. throughput - but, it's a pretty safe bet, as was the case for the M2 vs M1 in the Air, that it'll throttle later and to a lesser degree.
And no, Apple is not going to massively improve the Air's passive cooling for the Air upgrade to M3 because .... upsell 🤣
Some testing seems to indicate otherwise - "If we compare P-Core in M3 with M1, it is ~40% faster while running on 35% higher clocks and consuming ~65% more power. Since we have x1.5 more of those cores, the peak power consumption will be doubled. Apple has to increase package power from 90 to 145W and use some throttling."
https://x.com/toniievych/status/1719768756446978501?s=20
It now runs at 4GHZ. higher than M2 and M1 Base frequency so you might be right to worry.
I don't know many pc's with Intel chips that high in frequency that run ok with no fan.
we shall see if Apple can fend off the heat.
Or CPU throttling could be an issue.
is there a fan in the M3 iMac ?? I hope so.
I don't know many pc's with Intel chips that high in frequency that run ok with no fan.
we shall see if Apple can fend off the heat.
Or CPU throttling could be an issue.
is there a fan in the M3 iMac ?? I hope so.
That is in line with what's reasonable for the higher end M3 Pro and Max chips when they go full throttle.
The M3s in the Airs will have to run at a lot less watts due to the passive cooling; quoting from memory the M2's, in the Airs, used 20-25 watts range at max CPU load and around 10 watts at max GPU load.
The M3s for the Air have the same core counts and configurations as the current M2s used in the Air lineup.
Even if we assume that Apple's graphs were 100% ******** (I give that a 50/50 probability 🤣), and the M3 is exactly 0% more efficient than the M2's we can safely conclude the M3 will not be too hot for the Airs 😀.
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I'm 99% confident that Airs will launch with M3's inside in 2024. It's an interesting idea but every chip will be made to fit every chassis in next generation Macs. Some of those chassis may evolve to accommodate new generations but no Mac design will be left behind because a new generation SOC can't work inside it.
Relatively to MBair, Apple would not box themselves into a corner to make the best-selling Mac not able to keep selling. The driving plan always starts with maximize revenue & profit. Everything else supports that.
Relatively to MBair, Apple would not box themselves into a corner to make the best-selling Mac not able to keep selling. The driving plan always starts with maximize revenue & profit. Everything else supports that.
I think it is a good pricing strategy to not launch the M3 in the Air. Straight upgrade path from M1 Air/Some future cheap MacBook -> M2 Air -> M3 14" -> M3 Pro 14" -> and onwards. If I had to guess, Apple will not be putting it in anytime soon. It would take away the reason for the 14" M3 base model Pro.
Also, to the main point, I don't think it would be too hot, because the 3nm architecture is cooler (less space between transistors means less energy needed, which means it's cooler by default).
Also, to the main point, I don't think it would be too hot, because the 3nm architecture is cooler (less space between transistors means less energy needed, which means it's cooler by default).
Yeah no they definitely did not design an M3 that can't sit in iPads, MBAs and the like down the line. But it will throttle and perform a bit worse for sure.
They likely just don't have capacity for all devices at once and MBAs usually sell like hotcakes. Plus, the M3 likely costs a fair bit more to produce than the M2 right now, so the incentive to put it in low-cost devices right away isn't there.
They likely just don't have capacity for all devices at once and MBAs usually sell like hotcakes. Plus, the M3 likely costs a fair bit more to produce than the M2 right now, so the incentive to put it in low-cost devices right away isn't there.
so will the new M3 Macbook Airs be heaters? if not why not?
I would like to buy one but I do not need a heater. My older Macbook Pro does thatn or me already.
I would like to buy one but I do not need a heater. My older Macbook Pro does thatn or me already.
Ars has a good review:
Review: Apple’s efficient M3 MacBook Airs are just about as good as laptops get
For Intel or even M1 upgraders, there’s a lot to like about the M3 Air.
arstechnica.com
tl:dr version: it's throttle under load, but the fears from earlier in the thread about the M3 are unfounded.
Ars has a good review:
Review: Apple’s efficient M3 MacBook Airs are just about as good as laptops get
For Intel or even M1 upgraders, there’s a lot to like about the M3 Air.
tl:dr version: it's throttle under load, but the fears from earlier in the thread about the M3 are unfounded.
How so? The 14" M3 MBP is 33% faster than the 15" M3 MBA under load. That is a huge power loss due to thermal throttling.
That review doesn’t show any comparisons between the M3 MacBook Pro and the M3 MacBook Air. There are comparisons to the M3 Pro MacBook Pro. It’s an unfortunate omission from that particular review.
Max Tech did the comparison of the 14” M3 MBP and 15” M3 MBA. There is a big difference in performance under load.
Maybe Apple should start making their prices a bit cheaper? Even M3 MacBook Air 16GB costs $3000 in my country. I'm sorry, but it's not worth the money.
Thanks for the laugh this morning…I needed that. Almost lost coffee through my nose.
The Air has always had this problem. If you need sustained performance, buy the MBP. None of this is specific to the M3, which was the point of the thread.
Yup but I wouldn't even call it a problem. It's how it's designed. The M3 is being passively cooled and using the case as a heatsink. Of course it's going to hit a thermal limit faster than if it had copper heatsinks taking the heat to a couple fans. People are worried about the Air throttling but I haven't seen people complain about the iPad not being as fast as a MacBook Pro lol.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Yes, the answer to this thread is shown in hard number comparisons vs. MBpro in that video...
Nutshell: higher demand tasks will significantly throttle the speed of the system to deal with the heat. There's no way around that. If someone needs higher demand tasks running on a Mac, go Pro or Studio, etc. The casual, light app user won't likely be affected/notice.
That's no attack on Apple or MBair- just yet another example of "different tools for different needs."
Yes, it gets hot, not very usable in lap.It is not issue that is has no fans, but its chassis is too thin.
Also not big of a deal that it gets hot when doing hard tasks, benchmarks. But its chassis gets hot while simple web browsing, watching a movie, with CPU usage below 20%, another discomfort is that screen bottom gets hot at 70%+ brightness, this never happened on MBP 13 (M1 nor M2 on 100% brightness).
Very unpleasant in lap, on legs, etc... Pity, since dimensions, weight, 13.6 screen are amazing. MBP 13 (M2 and especially M1) are much cooler and fan does not run at all, 0 rpm. Redesigned chassis seems not to work that great with higher powered M3. Warm screen issue is weird too, since bottom of the screen is usually agains legs when used lying down on bed or in lap.
I directly compared 13 MBP M2 and 13 MBA M3, at same usage MBA CPU is hotter 6-10c (without fans kicking in in PRO at all), even on idle or very light use MBA is hotter 5-10c, which is very noticeable on chassis. Also battery life is pretty poor on MBA M3.
Also not big of a deal that it gets hot when doing hard tasks, benchmarks. But its chassis gets hot while simple web browsing, watching a movie, with CPU usage below 20%, another discomfort is that screen bottom gets hot at 70%+ brightness, this never happened on MBP 13 (M1 nor M2 on 100% brightness).
Very unpleasant in lap, on legs, etc... Pity, since dimensions, weight, 13.6 screen are amazing. MBP 13 (M2 and especially M1) are much cooler and fan does not run at all, 0 rpm. Redesigned chassis seems not to work that great with higher powered M3. Warm screen issue is weird too, since bottom of the screen is usually agains legs when used lying down on bed or in lap.
I directly compared 13 MBP M2 and 13 MBA M3, at same usage MBA CPU is hotter 6-10c (without fans kicking in in PRO at all), even on idle or very light use MBA is hotter 5-10c, which is very noticeable on chassis. Also battery life is pretty poor on MBA M3.
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If this thread is based on this premise alone I wonder if there's any single source to support this? Or is this just a pure personal opinion/ thought?
Yes, premise is wrong, it is marketing tactic, since Air sells the most. So they released Pro first. They will continue to do the same with new chips too. First stronger chips and Pro models, than lower priced models.
But anyhow, it is hot, M3 feels like M1 that is overclocked too much.