Will we have to wait for 10.7 to get some new window management tools?

[Runenees]

I switched to Mac years back and I've enjoyed the exposé feature for window management. Now, however, after trying Windows 7's super bar, I have to say, to me at least, that Windows 7 is superior to the Mac. The aero peek is genius and well integrated with alt + tab. Exposé, again to me, doesn't come close. And besides that, I have always been confused by all the options in Mac OS X - do I hide, minimize, close or quit. In Windows you close or minimize. Simple. If I choose to have my desktop shown the Windows doesn't magically disappear to the side - they minimize giving me a "fresh start" where I can choose the program that I want to work with at leave the others hidden.

I hate loving Windows 7's features this much. So I'm hoping Apple comes up with something better soon. The question for me is: Will it be before 10.7 (or what the next OS is going to be called) or will we have to wait about 2 years?

What do you think?

 

[HLdan]

Well, that's the nice thing about an opinion, everybody has one, and I don't agree with yours.

 

[NT1440]

I MUCH prefer SL's expose.

 

[heatmiser]

That's pretty neat about W7. I might have to try it sometime.

 

[Richard1028]

And besides that, I have always been confused by all the options in Mac OS X - do I hide, minimize, close or quit.

Same here. And I haven't gotten used to seeing the application still active after the last window has closed. (Except of course for Disk Utility which must have been coded by MS).

 

[Runenees]

Thanks for your opinions. But actually, as much as those, I was wondering whether you guys think it's possible that Apple'll come up with some sort of new window management features in a kind of update or do you think it's only realistic that they might incorporate this into a new version of OS X?

 

[NT1440]

Thanks for your opinions. But actually, as much as those, I was wondering whether you guys think it's possible that Apple'll come up with some sort of new window management features in a kind of update or do you think it's only realistic that they might incorporate this into a new version of OS X?

Just like they did in SL, itll be in a new version of OS X, have you tried expose in SL? Its great.

 

[Runenees]

Just like they did in SL, itll be in a new version of OS X, have you tried expose in SL? Its great.

It's much better in SL that in Leopard, I agree with that. But it still lacks in so many ways compared to the Super Bar, so I'm really finding myself wanting more from Apple. But again, that's just me. Obviously not everyone agrees

 

[krimsen]

For me, nothing beats Expose and active corners. Instant app switching nothing comes close to. I don't even think I'll be using SL's dock expose at all.

 

[HLdan]

It's much better in SL that in Leopard, I agree with that. But it still lacks in so many ways compared to the Super Bar, so I'm really finding myself wanting more from Apple. But again, that's just me. Obviously not everyone agrees

I think you're only excited by what the Windows 7 Superbar can do because it's something new about Windows in general. Unfortunately once you use the Windows 7 Superbar in everyday tasks you'll see very quickly that it fails miserably feature-wise against Snow Leopard's Dock-Expose features. All the Superbar can do is show thumbnail previews and when highlighted you'll see a full view of the window in question, which actually works very well.

But, what do you do when you have multiple windows of different apps on the same screen? The Windows 7 Superbar can't do anything about this when you want to view all open windows at the same time so you can choose the one you want to get at.
SL's new Expose feature allows you to see all available windows from all open apps rather they are on the same screen or in different Spaces. You can also drag and drop files from one window to the next using Dock-Expose. All minimized windows and Expose windows can be easily viewed in full size by pressing the space bar and highlighting each window.

There's so much more that SL's Dock-Expose can do over Windows 7's Superbar.
As far as closing apps vs. quitting in OS X, I understand your concern since it's not as cut and dry as how Windows does it but Macs are document based and Windows is application based. Opening apps in OS X presents the document while the application runs in the background. When you close a window only the document quits, not the application. The only reason an app will quit when the window closes is when it serves no purpose without the document window, then it will quit such as System Preferences, iPhoto and iMovie.

In Windows the application is built into the document so when you close the last window the whole thing quits. Honestly I hate it this way.

I don't think Apple is going to change this in 10.7, that's the way the Mac operates.

 

[NT1440]

SL's expose shows apps from other spaces???

 

[Runenees]

But, what do you do when you have multiple windows of different apps on the same screen? The Windows 7 Superbar can't do anything about this when you want to view all open windows at the same time so you can choose the one you want to get at.

You are right about me not having used Windows 7 in an everyday situation. But as far as seeing all windows at the same time I have to no need for this. I always know which app I'm going for so finding it in the Super Bar (the same way I find it in the Dock) wouldn't be a problem for me.

 

[Runenees]

And by the way, Exposé do show you all windows - but what about tabs in Safari? Or Photoshop? (To be honest I don't know how Windows 7 handles tabs in Photoshop, but I assume that it does that the same way as tabs in for example IE)

 

[Richard1028]

I was wondering whether you guys think it's possible that Apple'll come up with some sort of new window management features in a kind of update or do you think it's only realistic that they might incorporate this into a new version of OS X?

Regarding opinions here., you can pretty much count on the 'opposite' happening (if anything at all).

Here's a pattern for OSX though... If Windows has it then chances are that Steve-o in all his stubborn defiance will not adopt it just because he didn't think of it first . Changes at Apple are typically not market driven (i.e. Blu-ray, the removal of firewire for a long time, etc.) no matter how much sense they make. This is why macs will always cost more and do little to gain ground in market share. (Because they don't want to - which isn't a bad thing).

 

[HLdan]

You are right about me not having used Windows 7 in an everyday situation. But as far as seeing all windows at the same time I have to no need for this. I always know which app I'm going for so finding it in the Super Bar (the same way I find it in the Dock) wouldn't be a problem for me.

You're choosing to discredit several features of SL's Dock-Expose just because you don't have any use for them. I thought your thread was about Apple adding new window management features and Windows 7's Superbar being more superior? The Superbar is very limited against SL's Dock-Expose but if you prefer to use it, no problem here but please don't discount all the extras Expose can do just because you personally have no use for them, I do, as well as many others. There's no way I could go back to using Windows since I've gotten so use to the Dock and Expose.
I use my Macbook for work and in real world daily use I have Mail, Skype Safari and iCal opened in separate spaces and there are many times that I need to drag and drop files between them and the new Dock-Expose makes this very helpful, this can't be done Windows 7, period.

In terms of tabs, you're right I wasn't able to see anywhere that the Dock can show tabs from minimized windows but in YOUR own words, "I have no need for that". If I have to view all tabs I would doing that in a fully opened window rather than a minimized one. Dude, use what works best for you.

 

[Runenees]

Regarding opinions here., you can pretty much count on the 'opposite' happening (if anything at all).

Here's a pattern for OSX though... If Windows has it then chances are that Steve-o in all his stubborn defiance will not adopt it just because he didn't think of it first . Changes at Apple are typically not market driven (i.e. Blu-ray, the removal of firewire for a long time, etc.) no matter how much sense they make. This is why macs will always cost more and do little to gain ground in market share. (Because they don't want to - which isn't a bad thing).

I agree. I don't expect Steve to copy what Microsoft did and I'm not sure that I want him to. But I would like him to rethink how window management works in OS X and come up with something even better than Windows

 

[Runenees]

In terms of tabs, you're right I wasn't able to see anywhere that the Dock can show tabs from minimized windows but in YOUR own words, "I have no need for that". If I have to view all tabs I would doing that in a fully opened window rather than a minimized one. Dude, use what works best for you.

I don't think you quite understood what I meant. Maybe I wasn't being clear enough. But nevermind, I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just wanted to hear people's opinions.

 

[Richard1028]

I agree. I don't expect Steve to copy what Microsoft did and I'm not sure that I want him to. But I would like him to rethink how window management works in OS X and come up with something even better than Windows

But there's only so many ways you can sling a window around in 2D space.

Expose with hot corners works fine for me. CMD+TAB+ARROW will display all windows open for that app or... hold down the mouse over the app in the dock. There are so many ways it can be overwhelming. Then add Spaces to the mix.

I think window management has already been done to death.

My only problem with Windows on a mac is the bastards hop around and swap positions too much in Expose. I have no idea why because there isn't a pattern and they just seem to run amuck.

 

[atheros07]

I agree with the other posters here that it's just a difference in opinion based on the different ways in which you use the taskbar/ Expose. One strength of the new Win7 taskbar is the ability to display previews of all the tabs in your browser , but I still prefer Expose because it's real quick to just swipe my trackpad to invoke Expose and scatter all the windows on my desktop, visually lock-in on the window I want to switch to, and click it. For me it takes longer to do the same in the Win 7 taskbar (mousing down to the bottom, finding the application icon you want, hovering over it, then clicking on the preview).

I do think in future OS X releases Apple needs to figure out how to manage minimized windows better. Snow Leopard now lets you minimize to the dock icon, but there needs to be some kind of badge on the dock icon to show that there's minimized windows for that app.

 

[Ledgem]

I do think in future OS X releases Apple needs to figure out how to manage minimized windows better. Snow Leopard now lets you minimize to the dock icon, but there needs to be some kind of badge on the dock icon to show that there's minimized windows for that app.

I very rarely had to minimize applications in OSX. There simply wasn't a need to - if I wasn't working in an application at the moment and windows were getting cluttered, then I'd just hide it. Otherwise, Expose allowed me to find everything that I needed incredibly easily. (I used both the all-application Expose, which is the type most people are familiar with as there's a key for it on your keyboard, as well as the active-application-only Expose, which only tiled windows for the application that currently had focus.) There really was no need to minimize. Being a convert from many years of Windows usage, it took me a while to get used to not minimizing everything. However, it works quite nicely.

So, it's a strange design choice that Apple has made now - is it a concession to the Windows converts? Is it a concession that people don't understand the Hide function? The new Expose (which I really dislike compared to the old version) seems to be very Dock-centric.

If we're talking about using the Dock as a major form of navigation, then I must say that Windows 7's Superbar wins by comparison. It just feels better. However, I always hide the Dock and only use it for launching applications or accessing Stacks; with Expose, I never needed it. I personally find the old Expose (both forms; app-specific and system-wide) to be superior to either this new, Dock-centered Expose, or Windows 7's Superbar.

Someone asked a question above about Spaces and Expose. Activate Spaces, and then without choosing a new Space to transfer to, activate Expose. All applications in all spaces will tile for you to see. Fill up your spaces with many windows in order to really feel awe by pulling that one.

 

[aidricksdad]

the only thing i dont like about OSX is when i click on an icon and it opens up a window i cant click on an icon to hide it again i have to go to option or click the hide button up top...besides that i love it
i wish they could add that cuz clicking it again does nothing unless it has some usefullness in some apps i dont use or dont know about

 

[Consultant]

Not very difficult.

To exit: Command+Q

No need to minimize. Command + Tab to another app, or just OPTION+click another app to hide current one and switch to the other app.

They made applications full screen in windows back in the days because in the old days, windows cannot handle displaying multiple programs without really slowing down.

So, ever try to view a web page, full page, on a 30" screen?

the only thing i dont like about OSX is when i click on an icon and it opens up a window i cant click on an icon to hide it again i have to go to option or click the hide button up top...besides that i love it
i wish they could add that cuz clicking it again does nothing unless it has some usefullness in some apps i dont use or dont know about

That feature is extremely annoying on windows when you are working on a machine crunching numbers, a slow machine, or remote controlling over a slow connection.

You click once, and it didn't happen, so you click again, but then due to the slowness windows opens and hides the program. NO THANKS.

 

[maflynn]

I prefer SL's expose over win7's peek feature.

Perhaps I wasn't understanding it, or misusing it, but when I had the win7 beta installed, I found it more disruptive and not as intuitive as OSX.

 

[aidricksdad]

Not very difficult.

To exit: Command+Q

No need to minimize. Command + Tab to another app, or just OPTION+click another app to hide current one and switch to the other app.

They made applications full screen in windows back in the days because in the old days, windows cannot handle displaying multiple programs without really slowing down.

So, ever try to view a web page, full page, on a 30" screen?



That feature is extremely annoying on windows when you are working on a machine crunching numbers, a slow machine, or remote controlling over a slow connection.

You click once, and it didn't happen, so you click again, but then due to the slowness windows opens and hides the program. NO THANKS.

just a habit from using windows all day that im used to and i think it works great for my job and i dont NEED it for my mac at home just sometimes i want to quickly go back and forth between windows but i will try your suggestions thanx

i do like how i can just hover my mouse over an icon to see the window in windows and osx i have to click and hold

 

[daneoni]

Expose is pretty much tour de force. When i think 10.7 i'm thinking new UI, enhanced Finder and new ZFS or Apple custom built filesystem