WMware Question

[heisenberg123]

Is there any advantage to using a Bootcamp partition other than the Bootcamp partition is already set up before getting VMware?

My bootcamp partition is too small and im having issues on my OSX partition so i will be doing a clean install already, since ill be starting from scratch should i keep my windows stuff on its own partition or should I install windows through the VMware setup?


Also I dont currently dont have VMware so this might be a basic question but once I have windows installed how do you install windows applications will my mac run .exe setup from finder as long as the windows VM is running? do i have to run them from withing windows explore within the VW window?

 

[squeakr]

If you don't use Bootcamp, you will not be able to natively boot into Windows. All of your Windows actions will have to be done through the VMWare. To some, like me, this is not a big deals, as I don't need to natively boot, but to some such as gamers, they like to boot directly into Windows to get the bets possible performance.

I have all of my Windows stuff on the Windows images I use within VMWare, as you are suggesting to do, and it works perfectly for "my" needs but each user has their own needs and will need to assess if this works for them or not.

I have found that when you try to run Windows specific things, such as .exe or .wmv files from the OS X side, it will automatically run them within the Windows side when the VM is open or try to launch the VM otherwise. It may appear more transparent if you utilize Unity mode. I couldn't exactly tell for sure as I don't care for Unity mode much and never use it.

 

[heisenberg123]

If you don't use Bootcamp, you will not be able to natively boot into Windows. All of your Windows actions will have to be done through the VMWare. To some, like me, this is not a big deals, as I don't need to natively boot, but to some such as gamers, they like to boot directly into Windows to get the bets possible performance.

I have all of my Windows stuff on the Windows images I use within VMWare, as you are suggesting to do, and it works perfectly for "my" needs but each user has their own needs and will need to assess if this works for them or not.

I have found that when you try to run Windows specific things, such as .exe or .wmv files from the OS X side, it will automatically run them within the Windows side when the VM is open or try to launch the VM otherwise. It may appear more transparent if you utilize Unity mode. I couldn't exactly tell for sure as I don't care for Unity mode much and never use it.

thanks, so when im running Windows in VMware is will have "My Computer" so i can run dvd installs from within that window, is this way of installing more stable then running them from the OSX side?

also where do windows applications get installed to without using bootcamp, do they save in the Application Suport folder on OSX? and do i unistall them? same as i would if i was running bootcamp like if the program has an uninstall option in the windows start menu than I would use that? or is everything done in the VMware settings?

 

[squeakr]

Anything that is Windows related will run within the bounds of the Windows area. The applications are saved within what is called an "image", that VMware utilizes to run this image. These images are a sandboxed (for the most part) area of storage set aside by VMWare when the image is set up through VMWare. Unless running in Unity mode (which is a conversion mode that makes it appear as thought Window's applications are being run in the standard OS X desktop area), the image will show a different desktop that will appear the same as any other Windows desktop would.

You can set images up to share drives and resources so that you could save the data on your OS X area and utilize it within the image desktop (such as in the case of music or photos if you don't want to duplicate them). If it is a Window's specific application it will get installed within the Windows area, just as if you have installed it on a normal Windows desktop or bootcamp installation.

Although everything is essentially saved on the OS X side, if it is Windows specific and installed through Windows, OS X will not be able to touch it. I hope this makes things a little clearer.

 

[heisenberg123]

Anything that is Windows related will run within the bounds of the Windows area. The applications are saved within what is called an "image", that VMware utilizes to run this image. These images are a sandboxed (for the most part) area of storage set aside by VMWare when the image is set up through VMWare. Unless running in Unity mode (which is a conversion mode that makes it appear as thought Window's applications are being run in the standard OS X desktop area), the image will show a different desktop that will appear the same as any other Windows desktop would.

You can set images up to share drives and resources so that you could save the data on your OS X area and utilize it within the image desktop (such as in the case of music or photos if you don't want to duplicate them). If it is a Window's specific application it will get installed within the Windows area, just as if you have installed it on a normal Windows desktop or bootcamp installation.

Although everything is essentially saved on the OS X side, if it is Windows specific and installed through Windows, OS X will not be able to touch it. I hope this makes things a little clearer.

yes thanks youve been very helpfull, so in the VMware settings i will allote so much "image" space like i would set partition for bootcamp?, or can i keep installing windows applications untill my entire disk is full?

 

[squeakr]

Generally when the image is created, it will be created with a set amount of space allocated and you can continue to use that space until it is full. There are ways to resize the partition later if needed (VMWare offers programs to resize the image size, but I think they are Windows based only if I remember correctly, so you would have to find a Windows desktop to resize although might be able to do it from another Windows image) and there are also ways to set up images to be sparse, in that they will utilize a set amount in the beginning and allowed to grow to a set limit (such as a sparse disc in OS X works).

It would depend on how you build the image.

 

[heisenberg123]

Generally when the image is created, it will be created with a set amount of space allocated and you can continue to use that space until it is full. There are ways to resize the partition later if needed (VMWare offers programs to resize the image size, but I think they are Windows based only if I remember correctly, so you would have to find a Windows desktop to resize although might be able to do it from another Windows image) and there are also ways to set up images to be sparse, in that they will utilize a set amount in the beginning and allowed to grow to a set limit (such as a sparse disc in OS X works).

It would depend on how you build the image.

this image is this part of the installing windows 7 via wmware process?

so if i make a 50GB image its essentially like making a 50GB partion? so that 50GB will no longer be seen as free space on the OSX side

 

[squeakr]

If it is set up as a hard limited space, then yes it will be exactly as you described (50GB of accounted for data set aside), if it is a sparse disc then that is not necessarily the case.

 

[heisenberg123]

another VMware question, will my virtual machines and images be part of my CarbonCopyCloner backup

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If it is set up as a hard limited space, then yes it will be exactly as you described (50GB of accounted for data set aside), if it is a sparse disc then that is not necessarily the case.

when you say hard limited do you mean when I choose to have it More Seemless or More Isolated?

 

[throAU]

A vmware virtual machine is just a collection of files (in an application bundle) visible in OS X.

As such, you can copy them, back them up, etc.

Boot camp is totally different and allocates a partition of your hard drive which is independent from OS X.


Vmware virtual machines can be created as either "pre-allocated" or on demand disk allocation. Turning pre-allocated off will only consume the space required to store what is in the virtual hard disk, if your (say) 20 gig virtual hard drive is half full it will take 10 gigs of space, as a file under OS X.

Unless you're planning to run games, or some application that won't work under vmware emulation, you don't need boot camp. Dealing with virtual machines is far more convenient - you don't need to reboot, you can snapshot them, copy them to another computer, etc.

 

[heisenberg123]

A vmware virtual machine is just a collection of files (in an application bundle) visible in OS X.

As such, you can copy them, back them up, etc.

Boot camp is totally different and allocates a partition of your hard drive which is independent from OS X.


Vmware virtual machines can be created as either "pre-allocated" or on demand disk allocation. Turning pre-allocated off will only consume the space required to store what is in the virtual hard disk, if your (say) 20 gig virtual hard drive is half full it will take 10 gigs of space, as a file under OS X.

Unless you're planning to run games, or some application that won't work under vmware emulation, you don't need boot camp. Dealing with virtual machines is far more convenient - you don't need to reboot, you can snapshot them, copy them to another computer, etc.

thanks so are there advantages to pre-allocated vs on-demand allocated space?

 

[squeakr]

Not much other than a little speed as preallocated isn't always trying to figure out the correct sizings required and adjust accordingly.

 

[throAU]

^^ as he said, if you "pre allocate" the disk space, vmware creates a big file as soon as you create the VM, in one contiguous (un-fragmented) block.

If you turn it off, vmware will look for new areas of the disk to write to as required - if there is other stuff writing to disk (and there will be) in OS X, this will cause your VMDK file to be scattered all over the place, which will slow down disk access in your VM.

Its a trade off. If you're running on SSD, i'd definitely turn pre-allocated off - fragmentation isn't such a bad problem on SSD, but disk space is expensive.

On a spinning disk? Up to you - I leave it OFF as i allocate a fair bit more space to my VMs than I typically have used (e.g., i might have a VM of lion with 60gb allocated, and only using 12gb or so. that's 48gb i don't need to use on my drive until I fill the VM).

 

[heisenberg123]

ok one last question silly question im sure ive decided it might be best to have use bootcamp just incase i have a game that needs it.

no when using vmware off of bootcamp can i still install windows applications from withing the vwware window or will i have to boot into bootcamp to make changes to that partition?

also when using vmware off the bootcamp and im working on an excel spreadsheet i can still make changes save files etc even though those files are on a windows formatted partition?

 

[squeakr]

You will be able to do all of what you wish from within the VM as if it was on the actual windows partition, except to resize the partition if it is a bootcamp partition (you would have to boot into bootcamp controls to repartition the sizing of a bootcamp partition). You will also not be able to create snapshots for roll back if it is a bootcamp partition, as you can only create snapshots from vm images.

I did the same as you with creating a bootcamp partition and using it from VMWare. I ran it this way for several years and then when moving to a new MBP, found that I never game or had specific needs for a bootcamp partition, so thus never had the need to specifically boot directly into Windows. i created a vm image from the bootcamp partition and deleted the bootcamp partition. I notice no differences and don't miss the partition, but find more usability for me by being able to create snapshots and such (and I can CCC the disk if I need without worrying about how the bootcamp partition will be affected.

 

[heisenberg123]

You will be able to do all of what you wish from within the VM as if it was on the actual windows partition, except to resize the partition if it is a bootcamp partition (you would have to boot into bootcamp controls to repartition the sizing of a bootcamp partition). You will also not be able to create snapshots for roll back if it is a bootcamp partition, as you can only create snapshots from vm images.

I did the same as you with creating a bootcamp partition and using it from VMWare. I ran it this way for several years and then when moving to a new MBP, found that I never game or had specific needs for a bootcamp partition, so thus never had the need to specifically boot directly into Windows. i created a vm image from the bootcamp partition and deleted the bootcamp partition. I notice no differences and don't miss the partition, but find more usability for me by being able to create snapshots and such (and I can CCC the disk if I need without worrying about how the bootcamp partition will be affected.

good point i do like having a CCC clone on hand so that is a great advantage to not use a bootcamp partition the only game I currently play is really low on the spec demands, based on what vmware says fusion 4 can run i would have no issues, i guess its this whole image size and options that confusing me.

If i want to say make 50GB deticated to this "image" and i dont care about that space being "wasted" while its not need and essentially treating it like a bootcamp partition in the sense that ive already descided that for windows stuff what is my best settings to use when creating this virtual machine base on my specs in my signature

 

[squeakr]

I would say if you want to designate 50GB to the partition (and don't care about the space being under utilized) then I would say set it to a size of 50GB during the creation on a VM image. The only thing that I would recommend is if possible to designate the disk drive as a scsi drive and not an ide, if the option is presented to you. Either will work, but the scsi will yield a little better performance overall. I would also recommend that you not designate over 1.5 - 2GB to the Windows 7 partition and a maximum of 2 cores. I have my main image that I use all the time set for 1 GB and 2 cores (these can be adjusted later if you find that you need more CPU power or memory, but these are the suggested settings by most.

 

[heisenberg123]

I would say if you want to designate 50GB to the partition (and don't care about the space being under utilized) then I would say set it to a size of 50GB during the creation on a VM image. The only thing that I would recommend is if possible to designate the disk drive as a scsi drive and not an ide, if the option is presented to you. Either will work, but the scsi will yield a little better performance overall. I would also recommend that you not designate over 1.5 - 2GB to the Windows 7 partition and a maximum of 2 cores. I have my main image that I use all the time set for 1 GB and 2 cores (these can be adjusted later if you find that you need more CPU power or memory, but these are the suggested settings by most.

thanks for your advice

 

[squeakr]

Your welcome, and I hope it works out for you and accomplishes all you are trying to accomplish.

 

[heisenberg123]

Your welcome, and I hope it works out for you and accomplishes all you are trying to accomplish.

thanks again, everything is working great, even that 1 game I use almost plays better in VM that it did in bootcamp

still confused about this image size looks like i can't make the image smaller than 60.00GB but i have pre-allocated unchecked and my free space in finder makes sense based on the 10GB that the image is currently using

thanks

 

[dmps]

Mac Heating up

When running windows in vmware the iMac or the Macbook Pro are generating lot of heat.
How can I make them run cooler like in Mac os?

 

[heisenberg123]

When running windows in vmware the iMac or the Macbook Pro are generating lot of heat.
How can I make them run cooler like in Mac os?

mine was when i first installed it, in the vmware settings i modifyed the processors and memory setting and now its running just like osx

im using half my core processors 4 out of 8 and half my memory as well

 

[squeakr]

Unless you need the extra power, I would not allocate so much memory and CPU to the vm. I currently am running 2 images (one Windows 7 with several things open in it and running, and one Windows 2008 Server running a QA server program, SQL Server, Mail server, and running 2 instances of the QA client within it), also running my normal mail, Safari, FireFox (both with several tabs open), the internal monitor, an external monitor (so running the dedicated GPU), ical, preview, textedit, iMessage, Adium, Excel, and iTunes, and I am only running at 67 C (although early on, I did redo my thermal paste).

The images run fine and I am not throwing much by way of resources at them, so they are really very frugal. I would recommend using the bare settings as I suggested, unless you find that you need something mire for power. The duke of halves is overkill (meaning half of memory and CPU to each os).

Also when you first install it, it may run hotter as it is trying to re-spotlight (check that by looking at the spotlight icon and see of it is re-spotlighting)