Would a 120hz new Apple TV require a 120hz TV?

[HappyDude20]

Just heard the rumor that the new AppleTV will support hdmi 2.1 which supports 120hz.

If this is true then I’m definitely getting it but wondering if I would need to get a tv that supports 120hz as well?

 

[Mr.Blacky]

Only if you want to take advantage of 120Hz.

 

[nutmac]

Just as Apple TV 4K works on 720p or 1080p TV sets, the 6th generation Apple TV with HDMI 2.1 will likely support any TV sets with HDMI input. HDMI 2.1 is fully backward compatible.

 

[HappyDude20]

Hmmm. Okay thanks for the replies. Now I gotta wonder and check how much 120hz televisions cost.

 

[ignatius345]

Hmmm. Okay thanks for the replies. Now I gotta wonder and check how much 120hz televisions cost.

Whatever you do, turn that "smooth motion" crap off on the set before watching movies, unless you love the soap opera effect.

James Gunn and Other Top Directors Call on TV Makers to Finally Kill the ‘Soap Opera Effect’

It’s commonly known as the “sports effect,” the “soap opera effect,” “motion smoothing,” or “motion interpolation” and it makes sports on your TV look

gizmodo.com

TVs these days tend to ship with this effect just blanketed over all content even if it mangles the look and feel it was shot for. I assume the Apple TV will be smart about it and play movies back at 24 or 30 fps and only crank up the frame rate for the home screen and non-cinema content like documentaries and sports. But it'll be interesting to see how it's handled.

My HDMI is routed from the Apple TV through an AV receiver to a projector -- all of which would have to get upgraded to get this 120 fps UI, so I'm probably not gonna be doing this anytime soon unless I have a couple grand burning a hole in my pocket

 

[HappyDude20]

Whatever you do, turn that "smooth motion" crap off on the set before watching movies, unless you love the soap opera effect.

James Gunn and Other Top Directors Call on TV Makers to Finally Kill the ‘Soap Opera Effect’

It’s commonly known as the “sports effect,” the “soap opera effect,” “motion smoothing,” or “motion interpolation” and it makes sports on your TV look

gizmodo.com

I hate the soap opera effect. Didn’t know it’s an option to turn off.

 

[ignatius345]

I hate the soap opera effect. Didn’t know it’s an option to turn off.

Yeah, it's usually under "smooth motion" or some such. I just spent a weekend at an older relative's house watching stuff this way and I wanted so badly to yoink the remote and dive into the settings...

 

[ouimetnick]

Hmmm. Okay thanks for the replies. Now I gotta wonder and check how much 120hz televisions cost.

I’d wait a few years for pricing to come down. It’s amazing how cheap 4K TVs are already compared to a few years ago. I’m sure 120Hz will be in lower cost sets in a few years.

 

[narenh]

Almost all mid-range and above 4K TVs are 120Hz. You can pretty much assume that if you're spending more than $700 on a 65" or below, or above $1200 on a 75" or above, that it'll have a 120Hz panel.

 

[velocityg4]

Whatever you do, turn that "smooth motion" crap off on the set before watching movies, unless you love the soap opera effect.

James Gunn and Other Top Directors Call on TV Makers to Finally Kill the ‘Soap Opera Effect’

It’s commonly known as the “sports effect,” the “soap opera effect,” “motion smoothing,” or “motion interpolation” and it makes sports on your TV look

gizmodo.com

TVs these days tend to ship with this effect just blanketed over all content even if it mangles the look and feel it was shot for. I assume the Apple TV will be smart about it and play movies back at 24 or 30 fps and only crank up the frame rate for the home screen and non-cinema content like documentaries and sports. But it'll be interesting to see how it's handled.

My HDMI is routed from the Apple TV through an AV receiver to a projector -- all of which would have to get upgraded to get this 120 fps UI, so I'm probably not gonna be doing this anytime soon unless I have a couple grand burning a hole in my pocket

Yep, I turn this off and all the other automated "features". Except sometimes I like contrast enhancements. But all the de-noise, auto saturation, auto sharpness, auto brightness and such has gotta go.

Then I toss in my Disney WOW Blu Ray, put on their special glasses, darken the room and calibrate the display. Which is a fun way to burn through a couple hours. Especially since one adjustment throws another off. So, you have to keep going through it until it's just right.

 

[ignatius345]

Yep, I turn this off and all the other automated "features". Except sometimes I like contrast enhancements. But all the de-noise, auto saturation, auto sharpness, auto brightness and such has gotta go.

Then I toss in my Disney WOW Blu Ray, put on their special glasses, darken the room and calibrate the display. Which is a fun way to burn through a couple hours. Especially since one adjustment throws another off. So, you have to keep going through it until it's just right.

Yeah, I'm a little color blind so I have to get a second opinion before I do any calibrations...

 

[Rigby]

What's the point of 120 Hz on an Apple TV? It won't do anything for movies. Are there any tvOS games that can run such high framerates?

 

[Octopuss]

Just get 2 TVs x 60Hz

Simple Math!

 

[Morien]

Rigby is correct.

For movies or tv there is no point of 120Hz.

There are literally only 14 movies filmed at a high frame rate (48fps or higher). See the full list of them here.

Of those 14 movies, only 2 of them are available at a higher frame rate on physical media, and I don't think that number is higher on any streaming platform. This isn't going to change, and higher frame rates are not going to suddenly take off, either. As you can see from the list, filmmakers have been able to film at higher frame rates since the 70s.

You may benefit if there are games you want to play at a higher frame rate, but even then the value you will receive from it remains to be seen. There are currently only 8 titles on PS5 that support 120fps, all of which support it by scaling back on other things like resolution or textures (given PS5 is in its infancy, but you can already see that 120fps is very limited in appeal to developers). There are many more titles on mobile platforms that support 120fps, but again, they make some pretty big sacrifices to achieve it.

Basically, what I'm saying is that your money is better spent going on a tv with other features (like deeper blacks, higher peak brightness or better upscaling). You might spend a lot of money on upgrading your equipment only to find that you get nothing out of it.

To answer your question though, yes, you will need a HDMI 2.1 equipped television that supports 120hz to enable 120hz on the Apple TV.

Edit, just to be clear. Many tvs will claim 120hz panels. That is not the same as having a set capable of taking in a 120hz signal.

 

[HappyDude20]

Just get 2 TVs x 60Hz

Simple Math!

 

[vault]

Almost all mid-range and above 4K TVs are 120Hz. You can pretty much assume that if you're spending more than $700 on a 65" or below, or above $1200 on a 75" or above, that it'll have a 120Hz panel.

Panels may be 120Hz but few will accept native 120Hz signal.

 

[HappyDude20]

Panels may be 120Hz but few will accept native 120Hz signal.

Wouldn’t this rumored 120hz AppleTV solve that?

 

[Rigby]

Wouldn’t this rumored 120hz AppleTV solve that?

The TV's internal refresh rate is different from the source frame rate. Almost all movie/TV content has a source frame rate of either 24 or 60 fps, which is why the Apple TV doesn't need 120 Hz output for video content. The reason why many TVs today use a 120 Hz internal refresh rate is that 120 is divisible by both 60 and 24. This means that the TV can easily convert both frame rates to its internal panel refresh rate without causing visible judder. TVs that have 60 Hz panel refresh rate need to use a technique called 3:2 pulldown to convert 24 fps to 60, which works by adding additional frames and causes some amount of judder.

 

[Blair Paulsen]

Over the next few years I expect high value sports coverage will move to UHD @2160/120P. Sure, it will be a few years before the infrastructure for distribution can actually handle it. That said, if there's anything besides games that can really shine at higher refresh rates, it would be sports.
Outfitting production trucks, stadia, etc with new hardware is an expensive proposition best done as infrequently as possible to enable reasonable ROI time frames. At least in the US, in 2021, it's almost all 720/60P or 1080@60i production at sports venues despite the strong growth of UHD/4K TV adoption. This is primarily because nobody wants to invest in tech that will be superseded too quickly, like 2160/30P. It's a better business case to wait a little longer until 2160/120P gear is widely available and can be campaigned for many years before obsolescence.
Professional production infrastructure rarely uses HDMI, so chipset availability for 2.1 is not key. That said, once displays and AV "receivers" move to 2.1 it will change the game a bit.
In any case, the adoption of HDMI 2.1 for the next AppleTV has other benefits - starting with bit depth. A properly mastered 24fps source with 12 bits per channel can provide better color accuracy and improved HDR rendition. It's not just about frame rate.
The other big piece of this is the expected useful lifespan of the device. HDMI 2.1 is likely to delay obsolescence by a good 5 years vs HDMI 2.0.

 

[Audit13]

The TV's internal refresh rate is different from the source frame rate. Almost all movie/TV content has a source frame rate of either 24 or 60 fps, which is why the Apple TV doesn't need 120 Hz output for video content. The reason why many TVs today use a 120 Hz internal refresh rate is that 120 is divisible by both 60 and 24. This means that the TV can easily convert both frame rates to its internal panel refresh rate without causing visible judder. TVs that have 60 Hz panel refresh rate need to use a technique called 3:2 pulldown to convert 24 fps to 60, which works by adding additional frames and causes some amount of judder.

Doesn't the ATV support frame rate matching so that pulldown is not needed?

 

[Rigby]

Doesn't the ATV support frame rate matching so that pulldown is not needed?

Regardless of which frame rate the ATV sends to the TV, the TV has a given panel refresh rate of usually either 60 or 120 Hz. So it has to internally convert the input frame rate to the panel refresh rate.

 

[Rigby]

In any case, the adoption of HDMI 2.1 for the next AppleTV has other benefits - starting with bit depth. A properly mastered 24fps source with 12 bits per channel can provide better color accuracy and improved HDR rendition. It's not just about frame rate.

HDMI 2.0 can already handle 24 fps with 12 bit depth. It can also handle 60 fps with 12 bits as long as chroma subsampling is used (which is the case in all consumer video formats).

 

[Audit13]

Regardless of which frame rate the ATV sends to the TV, the TV has a given panel refresh rate of usually either 60 or 120 Hz. So it has to internally convert the input frame rate to the panel refresh rate.

Cool, thanks for the information.

I also see that some movies are 23.976 FPS and 24.00 FPS. Not sure if this makes a difference with a 60 Hz TV.

 

[HDFan]

A properly mastered 24fps source with 12 bits per channel

Will be nice when it comes. No display panels are currently available with 12 bit color.

 

[almostinsane]

Just heard the rumor that the new AppleTV will support hdmi 2.1 which supports 120hz.

If this is true then I’m definitely getting it but wondering if I would need to get a tv that supports 120hz as well?

This only matters for the small amount of games on the AppleTV. Any movies will already be played in 120hz on a 120hz TV via multiplying frames 5x (they are sent at 24hz to TVs, TV’s play each frame 5x to get to 120hz). TV’s have done this for years. A 120Hz AppleTV does nothing for TV content (Movies or TV shows).