XDR for Software Dev

[copperfish]

Hey folks! I am wondering if any XDR owners are purchasing this monitor for coding related work. I have been looking for a quality monitor with very high PPI for easy viewing of text for 10-12 hours a day coding sessions.

I am currently using an LG 5k and really miss the screen real estate of a 32 inch. I know I am not the target audience, but there are really gaps in other options in the market for this level of PPI.

 

[maflynn]

Seems like overkill as there are less expensive options (non-apple) that provide a nice high PPI for a fraction of the cost.

 

[straightMacin]

A good portion of my work includes coding and I’ve found the XDR to be absolutely amazing for the job. Is it overkill? Probably, but it makes looking at the screen for hours much more pleasant.

I have one in landscape and one in portrait, plus a Thunderbolt Display in portrait as well (PLP setup).

 

[Stephen.R]

I am currently using an LG 5k and really miss the screen real estate of a 32 inch.

For the price of one XDR display you could buy 3 more LG 5K's.

I'm certain they're good value for some markets where they compete with $10K/$20K displays - but displaying code isn't one of those markets, at all.

but it makes looking at the screen for hours much more pleasant.

More pleasant than what? It has the same (actually very slightly lower, 215 vs 217) PPI as a 27" 5K display.

As you still use a TB display, is that your reference for what it's "better" than? Because for something like writing code that isn't ridiculously colour sensitive, the more than triple price tag (compared to the LG 5k Op is using now) doesn't seem justified at all, and it doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

If you have an employer with no concept of spending limits, then hey you do you, but I can think of several display setups I'd choose before spending $5K on a single screen - regardless of who's paying.

 

[frou]

I use triple iiyama 5K monitors for development. For all three of them together, I spent 70% less than a single XDR with Stand would cost! Admittedly that was bargain hunting and paying less than RRP.

As @Stephen.R mentions, the big win for code is high PPI text. Incidentally, even two XDRs has less real estate than three 5Ks (41 vs 44 megapixels)

 

[straightMacin]

More pleasant than what? It has the same (actually very slightly lower, 215 vs 217) PPI as a 27" 5K display.

As you still use a TB display, is that your reference for what it's "better" than? Because for something like writing code that isn't ridiculously colour sensitive, the more than triple price tag (compared to the LG 5k Op is using now) doesn't seem justified at all, and it doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

If you have an employer with no concept of spending limits, then hey you do you, but I can think of several display setups I'd choose before spending $5K on a single screen - regardless of who's paying.

Jeez dude, you act like someone using the XDR for development offends you personally.

The cost doesn’t bother me much and the benefit of color accuracy, screen real estate, design, and pixel density more than justify it for me. That’s awesome that triple 5k setups work for you, I personally find the larger size combined with the above features to be incredibly useful for my workflows. YMMV.

 

[Brian Y]

Jeez dude, you act like someone using the XDR for development offends you personally.

The cost doesn’t bother me much and the benefit of color accuracy, screen real estate, design, and pixel density more than justify it for me. That’s awesome that triple 5k setups work for you, I personally find the larger size combined with the above features to be incredibly useful for my workflows. YMMV.

I'm a software engineer myself, and I see zero (yes, zero) point in the XDR for software development beyond bragging rights on a forum. It has the same PPI as the iMac 5K (or any other 27" 5K panel), and for staring at text all day, nobody gives two hoots about colour accuracy.

 

[copperfish]

Thanks for the input folks. Prob overkill for what I’m after. I’ll have to wait for a 32inch 5/6k down the line. Might just pick up another 27 5k.

 

[frou]

I see zero (yes, zero) point in the XDR for software development beyond bragging rights on a forum.

Bit harsh. If getting militantly utilitarian then it could also be said that there's zero reason for many developers to be using Macs instead of Linux machines. And yet paying more for a Mac due to liking the fit-and-finish of the hardware and macOS is generally accepted as valid.

 

[straightMacin]

It also depends on what sort of development you are doing. If you are in backend dev, devops, or are generally "in the code" more often than not, then sure, the XDR is hugely overkill. However, as someone who works on the front end UI/UX quite often, I find the quality of the picture on the XDR greatly helps me deliver a consistent and accurate experience.

 

[Glockworkorange]

For the price of one XDR display you could buy 3 more LG 5K's.

I'm certain they're good value for some markets where they compete with $10K/$20K displays - but displaying code isn't one of those markets, at all.


More pleasant than what? It has the same (actually very slightly lower, 215 vs 217) PPI as a 27" 5K display.

As you still use a TB display, is that your reference for what it's "better" than? Because for something like writing code that isn't ridiculously colour sensitive, the more than triple price tag (compared to the LG 5k Op is using now) doesn't seem justified at all, and it doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

If you have an employer with no concept of spending limits, then hey you do you, but I can think of several display setups I'd choose before spending $5K on a single screen - regardless of who's paying.

I agree with this.

At home I have an LG 5K connected to a 5K iMac.

I was super stoked for the XDR....until I saw it in person.

I assumed I was going to be blown away, but at the end of the day, unless you are working with HDR content, then you're stuck at 500 nits with the same PPI as the LG 5K.

Basically, for normal work, it's just a larger LG 5K (or an LG 4K for that matter).

Was not nearly as impressed as I thought it would be.

I certainly wouldn't pay $5K or $6K for it.

Multiple 5K screens is adequate, at least for me.

 

[syndr0me]

It makes sense to me. If you don't mind taking the large hit on the color accuracy wankery you won't need that is. It's the only true upgrade to the 5K that's available now. And by all accounts, it does everything better. A stand that doesn't wobble. Reliable connect/disconnect/wake from sleep. More screen space without having to put 2 or 3 wobbly POS LG's on your desk.

And, hey, if you're a software developer that can afford this monitor, you probably have a nice camera too. The color of your pictures will look remarkably accurate in Lightroom, at least until you hit them with those film simulation filters.

 

[Brian Y]

Bit harsh. If getting militantly utilitarian then it could also be said that there's zero reason for many developers to be using Macs instead of Linux machines. And yet paying more for a Mac due to liking the fit-and-finish of the hardware and macOS is generally accepted as valid.

Not really. There are other advantages to using a Mac. More familiar workflow. Tools you use only being available on that OS, less faffing around with setup, easier management for sysadmins, etc.

With the XDR, there are really no benefits for software engineers to justify the price. The PPI is no higher than far cheaper displays, the screen real estate is much lower than 2/3 5K displays, and better colour representation really has no effect when you're staring at screens of text files/consoles all day.

 

[xk991]

I spend all day writing software and am planning to get the Pro Display to replace my current 5k iMac setup. On paper at least it’s a huge upgrade if you prefer a single screen vs two. The nano coating is very appealing, AFAIK there’s no matte 5k display and anti-glare coating is usually done very poorly on lower resolution monitors. Although I need to see it in person since reports are the coating makes text slightly less crisp.

 

[syndr0me]

I spend all day writing software and am planning to get the Pro Display to replace my current 5k iMac setup. On paper at least it’s a huge upgrade if you prefer a single screen vs two. The nano coating is very appealing, AFAIK there’s no matte 5k display and anti-glare coating is usually done very poorly on lower resolution monitors. Although I need to see it in person since reports are the coating makes text slightly less crisp.

Pretty much where I'm at too. Obviously I don't want to pay extra for the color accuracy and fancy lighting I don't need, but it's the only choice right now if you want to improve upon the 5K experience in a bigger package.

Realistically, I wonder how long it will be before there's an upgrade or technology that would make non-creative users feel compelled to upgrade from an XDR? I know a lot of people in tech that cycle through equipment every few years, but hang on to monitors for much longer. My UltraFine 5K still feels quite a bit better than anything else I've seen in the 3 years I've owned it.

 

[Adult80HD]

You know, get what you want to do your work. If you can afford it, no one can tell you it's wrong or bad. The ProDisplay seems to engender a lot of negativity from people here, similar to the Mac Pro. It's not cheap, but find another 32" 6K display and then we can talk about price. BTW, even if your daily use is for coding, when you do decide to watch some HDR video content on it, prepare to really enjoy it.

I agree with @syndr0me, displays at the high end seem to have a particularly long life. My UltraFine still is a killer display that blows away almost anything else I put it next to--except the XDR, which makes the colors look all wonky on the UltraFine, even though it's been calibrated with an XRite i1 and the XDR is just using factory calibration for now (user calibration is "pending," probably waiting for a Catalina update).

 

[xk991]

Realistically, I wonder how long it will be before there's an upgrade or technology that would make non-creative users feel compelled to upgrade from an XDR? I know a lot of people in tech that cycle through equipment every few years, but hang on to monitors for much longer. My UltraFine 5K still feels quite a bit better than anything else I've seen in the 3 years I've owned it.

Yeah I’d expect the Pro Display to last a good 10 years and probably still be a great display compared to the competition even then. Apple‘s really been the driving force behind high resolution, and high quality, displays.

I imagine we‘ll be seeing an 8k Pro Display from Apple in the next year or two, suspect the 6k was chosen because that’s the current maximum a single cable connection can handle. DisplayPort 2.0 has way more bandwidth but they’ll have to wait for ThunderBolt 4 (presumably that will support DP 2.0) and GPUs that support it. We’ve barely gotten DP 1.4 as it is.

 

[syndr0me]

I agree with @syndr0me, displays at the high end seem to have a particularly long life. My UltraFine still is a killer display that blows away almost anything else I put it next to--except the XDR, which makes the colors look all wonky on the UltraFine, even though it's been calibrated with an XRite i1 and the XDR is just using factory calibration for now (user calibration is "pending," probably waiting for a Catalina update).

Thanks for that little nugget. It’s been very difficult to find any meaningful feedback about how this display performs as a daily use monitor for non-creative workflows. Glad to hear the picture is improved over the 5K. Makes the cost sting slightly less. Maybe.

 

[Stephen.R]

If you can afford it, no one can tell you it's wrong or bad.

If you can afford it, and feel it's worth the money, of course it's your choice - opinions are all subjective.

The ProDisplay seems to engender a lot of negativity from people here, similar to the Mac Pro.

I don't think this really frames the topic accurately. It's not "negativity", as you seem to be implying.

Apparently a lot of people who would probably fall into a loose "prosumer" description previously were prospective buyers of Mac Pro towers - they were closer in price to the consumer line, but offered more DIY upgradable parts.

The 2019 Mac Pro is quite removed from the consumer line in terms of price and expandability - it's "too high end" for most "prosumers" to justify because they aren't making money from the thing, and it's too expensive just for more RAM slots or a PCIe slot.

That isn't a criticism of those "prosumers" or the Mac Pro, it's just a fact - it's providing a much greater capability, and comes with a higher price tag.

The Pro Display is also quite removed from "consumer" and even most "high end" displays (i.e. you can buy a 22" LCD for under $100, or a 5K 27" for $1300).

Comparing the display to the aforementioned 5k 27" - it has a 38% increase in pixels/screen real estate, for 300% the price. That doesn't mean it's just really expensive - obviously it has features the 5K 27" doesn't have. But as with the "prosumer" and the Mac Pro, "most" developers (i.e. ones writing code that isn't somehow related to P3 colour accuracy or HDR content or what have you) simply don't have any need for the "extra" features of the Pro Display, compared to any number of other high PPI screens available.


No one is saying the Pro Display is "bad" - but you wouldn't call a limousine to take you to the corner milk shop, would you?

 

[Adult80HD]

If you can afford it, and feel it's worth the money, of course it's your choice - opinions are all subjective.


I don't think this really frames the topic accurately. It's not "negativity", as you seem to be implying.

Apparently a lot of people who would probably fall into a loose "prosumer" description previously were prospective buyers of Mac Pro towers - they were closer in price to the consumer line, but offered more DIY upgradable parts.

The 2019 Mac Pro is quite removed from the consumer line in terms of price and expandability - it's "too high end" for most "prosumers" to justify because they aren't making money from the thing, and it's too expensive just for more RAM slots or a PCIe slot.

That isn't a criticism of those "prosumers" or the Mac Pro, it's just a fact - it's providing a much greater capability, and comes with a higher price tag.

The Pro Display is also quite removed from "consumer" and even most "high end" displays (i.e. you can buy a 22" LCD for under $100, or a 5K 27" for $1300).

Comparing the display to the aforementioned 5k 27" - it has a 38% increase in pixels/screen real estate, for 300% the price. That doesn't mean it's just really expensive - obviously it has features the 5K 27" doesn't have. But as with the "prosumer" and the Mac Pro, "most" developers (i.e. ones writing code that isn't somehow related to P3 colour accuracy or HDR content or what have you) simply don't have any need for the "extra" features of the Pro Display, compared to any number of other high PPI screens available.


No one is saying the Pro Display is "bad" - but you wouldn't call a limousine to take you to the corner milk shop, would you?

The error in this logic is assuming that a linear scale in screen size/resolution equates to a linear scale in price. The difficulty in producing larger high-resolution screens is such that this is most definitely not the case. Even more so when you start adding features like FALD technology for HDR and high color accuracy. Case in point: The ASUS ProArt line, very similar in specs to the ProDisplay and...very similar in price.

The same basically applies to the Mac Pro as well. Compare it so actual similar workstations from Dell or HP and it's competitive in price.

You're right, Apple targeted the actual Pro market on both of these products, and more specifically the pro video and photography markets (more video though). They do their market research and know the markets they want to target, so we can't fault them for that. Would it be great to have a true "prosumer" level Mac and screen? Sure, although Apple is clearly comfortable their belief that they cover that market with the high-end iMac and iMac Pro. There is a niche that feels this is not enough for them but it's clear that Apple doesn't see that market as being worthwhile to pursue. If you want an Apple product and you fit that niche, you are stuck choosing being an overly-capable and expensive Mac Pro 7,1 and XDR or the iMac/iMac Pro line.

As for the limousine analogy? Let's face it, ALL of Apple's products are the "limousine" level. You can get cheaper versions of anything Apple sells that will serve the same functionality.

 

[Stephen.R]

The error in this logic is assuming that a linear scale in screen size/resolution equates to a linear scale in price.

I think you've missed most of my point, frankly.

I'm not - and I don't think anyone else here was - suggesting the Apple display is expensive for what it is.
We're simply saying that it has features that the vast majority of software developers wouldn't need, which means the features most software developers would make use of come at a much higher cost per pixel, or cost per square inch or whatever other unit of measure you want to use.

you are stuck choosing being an overly-capable and expensive Mac Pro 7,1 and XDR

The entire point of my, and I believe others' posts is, that you aren't "stuck" choosing Apple's displays: there are a multitude of high PPI displays available in varying screen sizes, many of which work very well for software development, because for most software developers, the primary thing on screen is a heap of text, possibly colourised to aid as a visual cue.

It's not like the program behaves differently, if the red used to indicate perhaps a constant or a control structure keyword, renders a little differently between two displays. It's not part of the actual program, it's a visual cue for the developer, nothing more.

 

[Adult80HD]

I think you've missed most of my point, frankly.

I'm not - and I don't think anyone else here was - suggesting the Apple display is expensive for what it is.
We're simply saying that it has features that the vast majority of software developers wouldn't need, which means the features most software developers would make use of come at a much higher cost per pixel, or cost per square inch or whatever other unit of measure you want to use.




The entire point of my, and I believe others' posts is, that you aren't "stuck" choosing Apple's displays: there are a multitude of high PPI displays available in varying screen sizes, many of which work very well for software development, because for most software developers, the primary thing on screen is a heap of text, possibly colourised to aid as a visual cue.

It's not like the program behaves differently, if the red used to indicate perhaps a constant or a control structure keyword, renders a little differently between two displays. It's not part of the actual program, it's a visual cue for the developer, nothing more.

But *if* want an Apple display then you are stuck with the ProDisplay at this point. And you may not be suggesting that it's expensive for what it is, but hop over to some other threads and there are plenty of folks who are.

You're right about other options, but the vast majority of them are 4K, and if you want 5K the choices plummet, and 6K...well this is the only choice. The other thing to consider is that even though the primary benefit to a high dpi display for coding is sharp text, people do use their displays for other functions so the features of an XDR may or may not be unnecessary depending on use case.

 

[Stephen.R]

But *if* want an Apple display then you are stuck with the ProDisplay at this point.

Well yes, but "if" you want a Maserati you're also stuck with a very expensive choice, when a Ford or a Nissan will work just as well for the vast majority of people.


This isn't like "I prefer macOS to Windows". If you're not taking advantage of the "Reference class" attributes of the Apple display, you're literally paying more money for a logo, and the way it looks. And that is a choice you can make, but no one is "more productive" because the display has an Apple logo rather than "Dell" or what have you.

hop over to some other threads and there are plenty of folks who are.

Well, they're wrong. Don't assume what others say elsewhere, applies at all to what people say here.

the vast majority of them are 4K, and if you want 5K the choices plummet, and 6K...well this is the only choice

Right, but using multiple displays has been a pretty common thing for tech workers for at least the last two decades. As was pointed out multiple times - you can literally have 3, 27" 5K displays for less money than this single 6K display. Or you could get a heap of 24" 4K displays, or whatever. My point remains: for "high PPI to allow 'retina' mode rendering" there are a whole range of displays available.

people do use their displays for other functions so the features of an XDR may or may not be unnecessary depending on use case.

... The entire thread is specifically about "coding related work". If you want to use it to also render 4K HDR videos of flamingos doing the cha-cha, that's clearly a different task, and thus the requirements, and what might be considered 'appropriate' or 'overkill' will change.

To re-apply the limousine analogy: the thread is about a trip to the milk bar on the corner, and you're suggesting "well maybe the limo makes sense because I also want to go to the opening of Le Miserable after".

 

[syndr0me]

I’m among those that doesn’t consider adding another monitor an upgrade. I don’t think I’m alone. When I peruse things like r/macsetups or r/battleststions, I feel like things are trending toward a single large monitor rather than multiple. There’s an inelegance to it that’s not particularly appealing.

 

[Adult80HD]

Well yes, but "if" you want a Maserati you're also stuck with a very expensive choice, when a Ford or a Nissan will work just as well for the vast majority of people.


This isn't like "I prefer macOS to Windows". If you're not taking advantage of the "Reference class" attributes of the Apple display, you're literally paying more money for a logo, and the way it looks. And that is a choice you can make, but no one is "more productive" because the display has an Apple logo rather than "Dell" or what have you.


Well, they're wrong. Don't assume what others say elsewhere, applies at all to what people say here.


Right, but using multiple displays has been a pretty common thing for tech workers for at least the last two decades. As was pointed out multiple times - you can literally have 3, 27" 5K displays for less money than this single 6K display. Or you could get a heap of 24" 4K displays, or whatever. My point remains: for "high PPI to allow 'retina' mode rendering" there are a whole range of displays available.


... The entire thread is specifically about "coding related work". If you want to use it to also render 4K HDR videos of flamingos doing the cha-cha, that's clearly a different task, and thus the requirements, and what might be considered 'appropriate' or 'overkill' will change.

To re-apply the limousine analogy: the thread is about a trip to the milk bar on the corner, and you're suggesting "well maybe the limo makes sense because I also want to go to the opening of Le Miserable after".

Umm, go back and re-read the OP's post. He's clearly aware of the other options and wants a 32" high ppi display. He's clearly aware of not being the target audience and the costs. He didn't say he wanted multiple smaller displays. If he's got the money and wants a 32" high ppi display, there's *nothing* stopping him from getting it. It is a great display and quite frankly the ability to rotate it without fiddling around with settings is also pretty nice when working with huge screens of text--and I know a lot of developers that love to use their displays in portrait mode. You're simply arguing it's overkill when he *already knows that*. Hence my original first reply--if he's got the money and he wants 32" high ppi, then the XDR is great, overkill or not.