YCombinator HN Unimpressed by M1 Pro & M1 Max Benchmarks

[BluAffiliate]

YCombinator, probably the most high end "pro" community on the internet seems a bit underimpressed by the M1 Pro when reading this thread:

Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

Basically most people are a bit unimpressed, saying some of the AMD Processors are already either just as fast or slightly faster, and then the new generation that will come out soon will be better than these chips. For example the top comment:

On the whole, seems like they're not feeling it. Normally I would ignore them as haters but this is really a pro-message board. Guys, what do we think of these detractors?

 

[bluegt]

I didn't read the whole thread but it does seem like a lot of people on this "pro-message board" don't really know how to compare properly. There is a mash up of comparing desktops vs laptops, different operating systems, narrowing in on nuanced benchmarks vs overall user experience... it's a bit odd tbh.

 

[Juicy Box]

The top comment was about the M1, not the M1 Max.

A while back, I posted comments stating that I was disappointed in the SW encoding performance of my M1 Mac Mini when compared to my much older high end Macs.

For the price point, the M1 Macs are very impressive, especially the Mac Mini, but I expected more from it when compared to my Macs with the 2nd Gen and 3rd Gen i7 chips.

The M1 was faster, but only about 50% than the 3rd Gen i7 from the Late 2012 iMac for long encodes.

Of course some from the MR community went nuts at my comment, saying that comparing the two isn’t fair (why not?)…

I still think the M1 is impressive for the price, but it is good to keep one’s expectations in check.

I am really interested to see the M1 Max performance gains over my older Macs, though.

 

[arock]

You are right that many of the people posting there are professional developers, but they don't need many of the capabilities that the new MBPs provide (highend graphics, specialized video encode/decode, long battery life). The OP of that thread really isn't the target audience, and many of the replies point that out. Consider that Apple laptops have way less than 10% market share combined - that means that 90%+ either have needs that can be met by other machines or they choose not to spend the premium that Apple products command (which IMO is justified). It's OK - people spend money as they are able or as they choose, and some feel the need to justify those choices and/or bash other people's decisions.

 

[leman]

An average HN poster knows very little about Macs in general and Apple Silicon specifically, yet they like to act like every one of them is an uber-super-developer. It's not just Mac threads btw, people there tend to discuss things at a level that make my hairs go up. There are some good posts and some very excellent people, but the structure of the site makes valuable posts difficult to find and easy to lose.

Just scanning though the first couple of topics, people don't know how much power modern CPUs consume, how much laptops cost, how memory on Apple stuff works, what APIs are used etc. etc.

 

[leman]

You are right that many of the people posting there are professional developers, but they don't need many of the capabilities that the new MBPs provide (highend graphics, specialized video encode/decode, long battery life). The OP of that thread really isn't the target audience, and many of the replies point that out. Consider that Apple laptops have way less than 10% market share combined - that means that 90%+ either have needs that can be met by other machines or they choose not to spend the premium that Apple products command (which IMO is justified). It's OK - people spend money as they are able or as they choose, and some feel the need to justify those choices and/or bash other people's decisions.

These are "professional developers" who write page long posts justifying Microsoft's incompetence because "drawing colored text is GPU intensive" and "if you don't use Linux you are not a real developer".

MacOS is one of the most popular platforms for developers, and these new Macs will make it even more popular. They can build software quicker than any other laptop on the planet, offer massive battery life, have excellent displays for text and UI design, are usable on the go and they don't slow down to a crawl when you use them on battery.

 

[Beau10]

An average HN poster knows very little about Macs in general and Apple Silicon specifically, yet they like to act like every one of them is an uber-super-developer. It's not just Mac threads btw, people there tend to discuss things at a level that make my hairs go up. There are some good posts and some very excellent people, but the structure of the site makes valuable posts difficult to find and easy to lose.

Just scanning though the first couple of topics, people don't know how much power modern CPUs consume, how much laptops cost, how memory on Apple stuff works, what APIs are used etc. etc.

I've been on HN since 2009 - I don't think that's quite true. Go to any open source meetup, hackathons, etc, and primarily you will see Macs - like 80% easily. They're far more prevalent in the dev community than they are in the population at large. The exception to this would be at security conferences or LAN parties for obvious reasons. Every company I've worked at (React/Rails dev here) since 2012, from 5 people to 1500 people, were all MBPs for the dev teams.

You sometimes get detractors like this toward the top of the thread because they say controversial things. When the M1 was first released there was an active thread saying *very* complimentary things about that chip, esp the power profile, and there's a lot of this in the linked thread if you read it in its entirety.

The only thing I feel HN has been more aligned on is the decisions Apple made for the 2016 revision, butterfly keys, lack of ports, etc - but aside from that it's been very pro-Apple.

 

[leman]

Go to any open source meetup, hackathons, etc, and primarily you will see Macs - like 80% easily. They're far more prevalent in the dev community than they are in the population at large.

This is my experience as well, because Macs are comfy and make great development machines.

I've been on HN since 2009 - I don't think that's quite true.

Over the last few years, as the website became more popular, I can't shake the feeling that the overall quality of content and comments has declined significantly.

 

[Slartibart]

YCombinator, probably the most high end "pro" community on the internet seems a bit underimpressed by the M1 Pro when reading this thread:

Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

Basically most people are a bit unimpressed, saying some of the AMD Processors are already either just as fast or slightly faster, and then the new generation that will come out soon will be better than these chips. For example the top comment:
View attachment 1873377

On the whole, seems like they're not feeling it. Normally I would ignore them as haters but this is really a pro-message board. Guys, what do we think of these detractors?

First: Did you actually read the thread you linked to?
Secondly: there is not much info there about a professional validation of the M1 family...
yes, there is some of this “My Zimbutsu 8000 with a (some number) core-(Prozessorfamily starting with “X” or “R”) ist faster than a M1 Air” … and people developing whatever on a Linux machine seem to be happy with their hardware… but the share of qualified judgment by professionals of the M1-family seems to be… sparse. … to put this euphemistically ?

 

[Bodhitree]

The M1 Pro and M1 Max are fast chips, there is no doubt. But when you compare them to the latest desktop AMD Ryzen processors, they are in the same ballpark. That’s already a huge achievement, to roughly equal the fastest current-gen CPUs despite a lower core count and much lower power usage. It’s a question of not expecting too much.

The real thrust of Apple’s argument, what truly makes them impressive, is that it works in a laptop, on battery, for a total weight that won’t have you straining to lift your backpack. It’s portable power which a lot of people will appreciate.

When we see desktop machines with these chips, as we probably will the same as we saw the M1 in the 24” iMac, they will be a little less on the cutting edge if you look at actual use cases. That doesn’t make the technology any less impressive — these machines are like a scaled-up games console, built for copy-free computing levering a huge pool of unified memory.

However, to truly compare oranges to oranges, we will need to wait until the Apple Silicon Mac Pro comes out. I suspect it will cost a pretty penny, but I also think it will outperform any consumer desktop PC by a significant margin. And I’m sure where Apple is looking is future iterations and the growth capacity of the platforms.

 

[BluAffiliate]

You are right that many of the people posting there are professional developers, but they don't need many of the capabilities that the new MBPs provide (highend graphics, specialized video encode/decode, long battery life). The OP of that thread really isn't the target audience, and many of the replies point that out. Consider that Apple laptops have way less than 10% market share combined - that means that 90%+ either have needs that can be met by other machines or they choose not to spend the premium that Apple products command (which IMO is justified). It's OK - people spend money as they are able or as they choose, and some feel the need to justify those choices and/or bash other people's decisions.

Well they are actively saying not that they "don't need the capabilities" but that the capabilities are not enough for them.

 

[MrGunny94]

I have been using HN for years but this conversation regarding M1 sometimes spin up. I think it's a great chip, amazing for portable machines like the M1 Air and the M1 Pro.

However I don't think it competes with a desktop at the end of the day and that's okay. What I like most about these machines is that they keep the same power profile unplugged or plugged and the is the huge benefit to them alongside the great battery life.

But in reality these machines for their price points are really good to what we are used to get for the 2k/3k price points. Heck I switched my whole workflow from the 16" to the Air and it's still pretty much doable despite the constant swapping and this Air was 750€.

My 16" with an i9, was plagued with issues from the ghosting on the screen, to the fans blowing up just by connecting an external display, to the overheating of simply opening a couple of Safari and Edge tabs for some freaking reason.. And the most surprising thing is that thing costed me 2799€.

So yeah I love the M1 and now the M1 Pro but again for their price points they are amazing machines. Are they for everyone? Of course not, my Windows power user friends love the specs but they would never get a Mac or if you sit at a desktop all day and don't even need a laptop to go around with you it also doesn't make sense.

 

[Beau10]

Over the last few years, as the website became more popular, I can't shake the feeling that the overall quality of content and comments has declined significantly.

Which is something people were griping about back in 2009 and onward. Disagree wholeheartedly. The mods have kept the quality up. This was a cherry-picked comment.

 

[bp1000]

I’ve had the misfortune of working alongside the “geniuses” from and with ycombinator.

It’s a world I really dont want to go back to. From the outside in, people think they are the smartest tech geniuses building incredible things. In reality they are exploited talents that are milked dry for wealthy peoples investments, encouraged to make apps that harvest data and apps that increase the engagement of users. Ie addiction.

I’ve seen so many good and moral apps sidelined from an investment point of view in order for funding to be given to an app that shares pics of pets because these sorts of platforms are much easier to acquire by larger and later stage companies to increase the share price 4x beyond the price of the acquisition.

These people building the stuff who sit around on bean bags with MacBooks perched on their laps playing hacky sack to procrastinate are very opinionated with a sense of entitlement and superiority. Sadly that is just part of the plan. To motivate them to keep working to push the investment, with pizza parties and coding competitions. It’s all designed to maximise the return on investment, yet it actually ends up breaking some of them as people. I wouldn’t take anything they say as useful. They are living in a world they aren’t even smart enough to realise they are in.

 

[zakarhino]

I’ve had the misfortune of working alongside the “geniuses” from and with ycombinator.

It’s a world I really dont want to go back to. From the outside in, people think they are the smartest tech geniuses building incredible things. In reality they are exploited talents that are milked dry for wealthy peoples investments, encouraged to make apps that harvest data and apps that increase the engagement of users. Ie addiction.

I’ve seen so many good and moral apps sidelined from an investment point of view in order for funding to be given to an app that shares pics of pets because these sorts of platforms are much easier to acquire by larger and later stage companies to increase the share price 4x beyond the price of the acquisition.

These people building the stuff who sit around on bean bags with MacBooks perched on their laps playing hacky sack to procrastinate are very opinionated with a sense of entitlement and superiority. Sadly that is just part of the plan. To motivate them to keep working to push the investment, with pizza parties and coding competitions. It’s all designed to maximise the return on investment, yet it actually ends up breaking some of them as people. I wouldn’t take anything they say as useful. They are living in a world they aren’t even smart enough to realise they are in.

very accurate and very unfortunate.

 

[sentential]

YCombinator, probably the most high end "pro" community on the internet seems a bit underimpressed by the M1 Pro when reading this thread:

Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

Basically most people are a bit unimpressed, saying some of the AMD Processors are already either just as fast or slightly faster, and then the new generation that will come out soon will be better than these chips. For example the top comment:
View attachment 1873377

On the whole, seems like they're not feeling it. Normally I would ignore them as haters but this is really a pro-message board. Guys, what do we think of these detractors?

I honestly think they have a point. Really would like to purchase a Mac again but the kind of hubris that is being displayed here is not unlike the Ballmer years at Microsoft.

Tim and company honestly believe they can reinvent the wheel and create a SoC where other very intelligent people failed.

57 bil transistors makes this chip larger than a RTX3090 and in reading that number my first thought was that there are going to be a ton of defects and cut down models made from this as I assume it has an absurdly high failure rate.

Sure enough the “base” MBP isn’t a 10 core CPU which is just really a crooked bait and switch but not unexpected given what they’ve done. They don’t really have much of a choice given how expensive a chip this is to produce. In addition they’ve pulled a Chevy and talked down about multi chip designs and slow inefficient bus speeds but will quickly have no choice but to use them and soon much like the Aluminum debate for trucks.

The second concern I had was what scaling would look like and if the early benchmarks are to be believed that is going to be a huge problem. The fact they’ve resorted to using a 512bit bus says it all. What’s the next step? HBM? Off die caching? How do they intend to add more cores? What about AVX support? SMT?

Say what you will about power hungry X86 chips but early next year we will see real 16+ core laptop chips from both AMD and Intel. What’s to stop them from adding a third tier to their current or projected Power/Efficiency hybrid chips? Both could simply drop large amounts of legacy code and move the majority of chips to RISC-V minus 1-2 Performance cores containing CISC.

Now they’re no different from Apple and will have the benefit of a modern codec, instructions and peripheral support which is woefully lacking in the Apple M series. How does Apple intend to compete with this because they’re gonna have to in 3 years or less.

We’ll see if they can

 

[BluAffiliate]

I’ve had the misfortune of working alongside the “geniuses” from and with ycombinator.

It’s a world I really dont want to go back to. From the outside in, people think they are the smartest tech geniuses building incredible things. In reality they are exploited talents that are milked dry for wealthy peoples investments, encouraged to make apps that harvest data and apps that increase the engagement of users. Ie addiction.

I’ve seen so many good and moral apps sidelined from an investment point of view in order for funding to be given to an app that shares pics of pets because these sorts of platforms are much easier to acquire by larger and later stage companies to increase the share price 4x beyond the price of the acquisition.

These people building the stuff who sit around on bean bags with MacBooks perched on their laps playing hacky sack to procrastinate are very opinionated with a sense of entitlement and superiority. Sadly that is just part of the plan. To motivate them to keep working to push the investment, with pizza parties and coding competitions. It’s all designed to maximise the return on investment, yet it actually ends up breaking some of them as people. I wouldn’t take anything they say as useful. They are living in a world they aren’t even smart enough to realise they are in.

Sounds like a personal anecdote. These guys are professionals, no way around that.

 

[Juraj22]

hmm, does Ubuntu runs on M1? No issues with drivers? I doubt it. Currently there is no linux distribution that runs well on M1.