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arn
Jul 1, 2002, 06:12 AM
Apple's shopping spree continues yet again... Apple has acquired Emagic (http://www.emagic.de/english/news/index.html), makers of Logic

Apple today announced it has acquired Emagic, a leading provider of professional software solutions for computer based music production. Emagic's most popular product, Logic, is actively used by over 200,000 musicians around the world. Emagic will operate as a wholly owned division of Apple.


Emagic's Windows-based products will be discontinued on September 30, 2002.

Tobsen
Jul 1, 2002, 06:31 AM
Next Adobe? :)

Megaquad
Jul 1, 2002, 06:42 AM
yeah!! bring it on!
now people will buy mac cause there is not enough software for pc ;)
microsoft will soon introduce new 'convert' campaign to bring all those mac users to pc ;)
i am kindda scared for apple..what if microsoft strikes back? they are far more financially powerfull! or maybe apple and m$ have some kind of secret agreement?

littlejim
Jul 1, 2002, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by Tobsen
Next Adobe? :)
Nahhh - AMD is the company to go for next. Then make their chips Windows incompatable from October 2002!


littlejim a.k.a. CaptainPovey

Zaren
Jul 1, 2002, 06:51 AM
There's another company that I know of that kept buying up smaller companies the way that Apple's been doing lately...

Worldcom.

Here's hoping Apple doesn't share in the same fate. :/

-----
Let "them" know you're not a terrorist! (http://www.cafepress.com/noterrorist)

jtrascap
Jul 1, 2002, 06:52 AM
I get the feeling from the recent spate of purchases that Apple is going to one day break into several divisions - OS, hardware and Solutions. We know the development of OS, and Solutions seems to be coming clearer with each purchase.

Will we one day have an Apple without a tie to any particular processor or hardware manufacturer, where it the bulk of its' profits come from the smartest creative software possible and not hardware sales?

meb-bee, meb-bee...

- Jim

jazzdog
Jul 1, 2002, 06:53 AM
This is a very interesting move. After all the video post purchases it seemed inevitable that they would pick up an audio company. I personally wish it had been MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) but the EMagic products always get very good reviews. Their new Logic Control hardware (co-developed with Mackie is a slick piece of hardware that I would love to see with an Apple logo on it.

MacSawdust
Jul 1, 2002, 07:12 AM
Maybe Apple will pick up the staff from the Mac BU at Microsoft and then we would not have to worry about Bill.

_xLs_
Jul 1, 2002, 07:27 AM
I am impressed!

I am so excited about the first release! I can't wait! :-)
What can we expect? iLOGIC? :-)

I hope this will be as succesful as the last time when they acquired ASTARTE, which lead into iDVD and DVD Studio PRO.

Sure, a few of the Windoze users might switch to Cubase etc, rather than switching to a MAC, but I think a lot of these guys will stay with their Software and convert to Mac... but we will see.

I only hope that they will support older EMAGIC Hardware, like the Audiowerk Recording Cards.

crassusad44
Jul 1, 2002, 07:40 AM
Edit music straight on your Mac. iMusic ships with all new Macs starting this summer (MWNY).... And of course: Only for OS X... drooooooool

synergy
Jul 1, 2002, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Zaren
There's another company that I know of that kept buying up smaller companies the way that Apple's been doing lately...

Worldcom.

Here's hoping Apple doesn't share in the same fate. :/


The difference IMO is that Worldcom went on a binge buying spree not matching what they need to what they got. Apple is matching what they need to what they buy. Worldcom stupidly picked up MCI and other assets but never really picked up a good wireless service provider. They make no money in the wireless phone space. Most companies in the wireless phone space are now minting money. Worldcom stuck itself in a shrinking market (long distance phone) and was not able to tap into the local phone service market as well as they would have liked. Long distance phone as a revenue generator is shrinking as flat rate long distance becomes the norm and as low cost competitors enter the field.

Here Apple bought out a music provider to complement their video side. Its part of the puzzle. I wonder if they will have an iMusic type app to help people make their own music for their movies.

synergy
Jul 1, 2002, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by jtrascap
I get the feeling from the recent spate of purchases that Apple is going to one day break into several divisions - OS, hardware and Solutions. We know the development of OS, and Solutions seems to be coming clearer with each purchase.

Will we one day have an Apple without a tie to any particular processor or hardware manufacturer, where it the bulk of its' profits come from the smartest creative software possible and not hardware sales?

meb-bee, meb-bee...

- Jim

Majority of their money made now if from hardware sales. If they could move it to making money off of software sales, including their OS, then maybe.
Most of these purchases though are for the professional side of things. The content creator. Though I believe some of the aspects will trickle down into the iApps.

Moxiemike
Jul 1, 2002, 08:00 AM
and all the audio people were belly aching about "apple doesn't care about us anymore"

All I can say is WOW.

If they can rework a way to have Reason "Rewire" into logic, ala cubase, I'm sold. :)

hot!

bsharp
Jul 1, 2002, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Zaren
There's another company that I know of that kept buying up smaller companies the way that Apple's been doing lately...

Worldcom.

Here's hoping Apple doesn't share in the same fate. :/

-----
Let "them" know you're not a terrorist! (http://www.cafepress.com/noterrorist)

Worldcom got into trouble by misrepresenting their finances, not by buying other companies. This is a sound strategy, not a decietful tactic.

drastik
Jul 1, 2002, 08:36 AM
I wonder what this means for the hardware?

I mean, a digital audio port seems pretty likely, now, as well as maybe included MIDI hardware. We can at least expect better sound cards, and the new speakers better be nice, or maybe Pro speakers on Every System! I don't know, but I;m thrilled. Now, if we just buy Digidesign and Mackie, that'll sew it up.

And swag to Adobe. Buy out control of Photoshop, then buy Macromedia (remember where we got FCP.)

There's a big play comming.:)

fbcfabric
Jul 1, 2002, 09:04 AM
Here Apple bought out a music provider to complement their video side. Its part of the puzzle. I wonder if they will have an iMusic type app to help people make their own music for their movies.

Emagic make pro audio software. yeah, some of the technology will filter down, and there may be an iApp in the works (think Logic AV) but the difference with music is its pretty hard to make without some form of hardware, even if its just a controller keyboard... then again you need a digi video camera to use iMovie

i dont think the purchase or Emagic is to compliment movie making, as Logic Audio Platinum is a popular pro audio recording tool that allot of people and studios rely on.

one important thing that Emagic owns is the technology for the XS Key... a USB dongle device that must be connected to the machine in order to open Logic. it basically keeps your registration details inside, with the space to store hundreds of serial numbers, and Emagic has been talking about licensing the technology to other developers... with apple now owning this technology maybe we will see this device needed for all of apples pro apps? just charge your new serial to your XS Key...

madness

ipiloot
Jul 1, 2002, 09:14 AM
Has any other aquired company said out loudly, when will they discontinue support for windows there? There were some words about Shake bot others?

Just looking for coincidence :-)

iwantanewmac
Jul 1, 2002, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by crassusad44
Edit music straight on your Mac. iMusic ships with all new Macs starting this summer (MWNY).... And of course: Only for OS X... drooooooool


Well just hope it won't be as cheesy as Imovie. (I mean it has to be on a different -----HIGHER----- level)
I wish they bought digidesign. I WANT PROTOOLS FOR X!

iapple
Jul 1, 2002, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by iwantanewmac



Well just hope it won't be as cheesy as Imovie. (I mean it has to be on a different -----HIGHER----- level)
I wish they bought digidesign. I WANT PROTOOLS FOR X!

I want ProTools X too!!! But Mac OS X just isn't ready at this stage for pro audio! I mean there isn't even a audio input pane in the "Sound" in System Preferences!!! It's a big disgrace! And they call the Mac a digital hub, when you can'T even assign a USB input device??

Well... (calming myself.. :rolleyes: ) I'M relieved to see those screenshots on ThinkSecret. Jaguar has MIDI, Audio support in system preferences, and whole new utility! HORRAY!

Just hold on, Mac OS X is GOING TO BE the platform for the best pro-audio solutions, just wait for JAGUAR! Bring it on STEVE!

MhzDoesMatter
Jul 1, 2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by jtrascap
I get the feeling from the recent spate of purchases that Apple is going to one day break into several divisions - OS, hardware and Solutions. We know the development of OS, and Solutions seems to be coming clearer with each purchase.

Will we one day have an Apple without a tie to any particular processor or hardware manufacturer, where it the bulk of its' profits come from the smartest creative software possible and not hardware sales?

meb-bee, meb-bee...

- Jim

I think Apple will continue to be hardware specific. As of now, its more accurate to say that they are a harware company that makes software to encourage sales. Even with this new stable of powerful, professional, and popular programs, Apple is still hardware centric, as proven by the elimination of the discontinuing of the windows versions of their newly acquired software. I would guess that their new focus is to further optmize the platform for these programs, strengthening their hold on niche markets while still simultaneously going after the masses, albeit less aggressively...(Switch?)


-Hertz

DavPeanut
Jul 1, 2002, 10:03 AM
Why wont apple buy up nVidia? Its at a 52 week low right now. Apple could easily do that. It would allow for apple to make its own video cards.

drastik
Jul 1, 2002, 10:05 AM
Check this out, from the X.2 hread

<URL\http://www.thinksecret.com/features/jaguarnewupdates/images/utilities.html\URL>

there is a control panel for Audio MIDI set up.:D

Archer
Jul 1, 2002, 10:06 AM
Hey guys,

For those who wanted Apple to buy Digi you're crazy or not informed, or both. Digi is owned by Avid. Avid is the maker of the most dominate editing program on the market. Yeah, I'm a FCP user too, but the facts are the facts. So there was no way in hell that Avid would give away such an important product to the up and comer Apple in the market. Just my two cents.

railthinner
Jul 1, 2002, 10:11 AM
Hopefully Apple will make Logic more user friendly-- excellent software but I dumped it for Digital Performer. why? because it just works. You can install it, and be up and running in no time with simple studio configuration etc. I would love to see Logic overhauled. "Environments" ? blah. The audio and plug ins are top notch but as a Mac user I like straight forward functionality, and always saw MOTU as more of a Mac company.

Perhaps that is why they didn't acquire MOTU--because DP is already Mac only and with emagic they're shutting down a windows option--not like there aren't plenty of others.

Hopefully we'll be seeing a new firewire Audio interface/controller surface. Something in the range of Tascams US 428 but FIREWIRE -- yes.

drastik
Jul 1, 2002, 10:11 AM
Oh, iApple already said that, sorry, I just got a little excited.:D

nVidia is worth more than its price right now, but that doesn't mean you could get it at market value. Most people who own nVidia stock (me) bought in at a higher price (also me) and realize that it is a good stock and a good company. The Price will go back up, probably pretty soon. I'm not about to part with that stock for its value right now, its worth more, the markets just in the crapper. Any level eaded investor would be with me here. You don't buy stock for a few months, you keep it for years.

That said, if (god forbid) the company is worth its market value right now (its worth a lot more) Apple wouldn't want it.;)

iwantanewmac
Jul 1, 2002, 10:17 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by iapple
[B]

I want ProTools X too!!! But Mac OS X just isn't ready at this stage for pro audio! I mean there isn't even a audio input pane in the "Sound" in System Preferences!!! It's a big disgrace! And they call the Mac a digital hub, when you can'T even assign a USB input device??

Well... (calming myself.. :rolleyes: ) I'M relieved to see those screenshots on ThinkSecret. Jaguar has MIDI, Audio support in system preferences, and whole new utility! HORRAY!


I just want to be able to use my 001 :)

drastik
Jul 1, 2002, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Archer
Hey guys,

For those who wanted Apple to buy Digi you're crazy or not informed, or both. Digi is owned by Avid. Avid is the maker of the most dominate editing program on the market. Yeah, I'm a FCP user too, but the facts are the facts. So there was no way in hell that Avid would give away such an important product to the up and comer Apple in the market. Just my two cents.

You're absolutely right Archer, and I'd be willing ot bet Avids a little pissed about FCP. Unfortuneatly, I think Avid's going to have some problems. I loe Pro Tools, I cut my teeth on it. I still think its the best thing going for sequencing. Hell, I'm going to Digiworld on the 18th. Might win an mbox.

But... Pro Tools, like Avid Symphony, is just to gargantuan an undertaking and an investment. The enonomy sucks, half the studios in town (believe me, Nashville has a lot of them) use a cracked copy of Protools (one liscence 14 set-ups), ProTools Free/LE and mBox/ 001 are the way to go for Avid. Thats the future of Protools if you ask me, lower priced solutions. Sure, the big systems will still be there for the Big boys, but not so much as before. I think Avid XPress DV is the future for video over there as well, though they'll have to come down in a price a little to compete with FCP.

Kelesis
Jul 1, 2002, 10:41 AM
iApple, you can set the input for a USB audio device in the Speech settings. That's not where it belongs, but that's where it's at. I hope they move that to the Sound settings.

3rdpath
Jul 1, 2002, 10:59 AM
from a music production standpoint this is huge.

i personally like performer(3.0 rocks) but hey, it'll help all of the audio/midi apps in the long run. looks like logic will be the first X app out of the gate....speaking of 3.0, i'm sure the 3.1 release hold-up is because motu is porting to X...they've never taken this long to release an upgrade in the past.

and maybe this will finally convince some protools people to drop that overpriced/midi anemic program...logic and performer both kick pt's hiney.

btw, mackie and motu just announced a controller...see it at motu.com

say goodby to oms and freemidi....core audio/midi will rule.

Foocha
Jul 1, 2002, 11:16 AM
Is it just me, or is this a little heavy handed on the part of Apple?

Apple are supposed to be the good guys - this is the kind of behaviour I expect from Microsoft, not Apple. Using your big bag of cash to kill off profitable products sucks.

How would Apple feel if Microsoft bought Quark and ended development of QuarkXpress for Mac?

Wry Cooter
Jul 1, 2002, 11:26 AM
This is my best possible spin on this news...

Logic was always 4th in line for me due to installed base and ease of use issues... I always looked at ProTools, Cubase, then Digital Performer then Logic in that order. Despite the power of Logic, it probably never would have grown out of fourth place.

Digi and Steinberg are glad to have one less competitor on the PC side, AND therefore continue development of ProTools and Cubase for the Mac.

Apple takes the Powerful Guts of Logic, and removes the steep learning curve, and makes a better application of it, more tied into the OS, and in two convenient forms ala iMovie/FCP... and iApp and perhaps a pay version with more features if necessary. Maybe just make a powerful freebie!

The new iApp files will still work if they ever did, or work even better, with PC users files. People owning a Mac will have something as good as Cubasis, or mBox without having to pay anything more. This is the growth arena for this segment.. home studios for songwriters.

First time users will have the solution already available in front of them, and in working order, for making Midi/Digital Audio on the Mac in a usefrul form, without having to hem and haw about which program to buy, because it will already be bundled with Jaguar.

Apple decides to continue support for users of Logic on PC, ala FileMaker, so that those users might become interested in the Mac, and that people creating on a Mac can still take their files to a PC if necessary.

Possible, not necessarily probable, downsides: Steinberg and Digidesign get miffed, stop making their products for Mac. Audio Files become entangled in proprietary forms that force choice of one program over another. Apple makes a Pro Application only, and no one is interested due to installed base of ProTools and Cubase users. PC and Apple music software production becomes a totally split world.

strider42
Jul 1, 2002, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Foocha
Apple are supposed to be the good guys - this is the kind of behaviour I expect from Microsoft, not Apple. Using your big bag of cash to kill off profitable products sucks.


Let none of us ever forget that apple is a multibillion dollar corporation who's only responsibility and mission is to make money for its shareholders. Apple is not interested in being the "good guys", they are interested only in money. I like apple's products, but have no illusions about what they are as a company.

unclepain
Jul 1, 2002, 11:40 AM
I can't help but be giddy at all the pissing and moaning that the PC users of this product are going through. After all these years of hearing "Sorry, that's only for Windows" it just does my heart good to see someone else get the shaft.

deejemon
Jul 1, 2002, 11:54 AM
*

deejemon
Jul 1, 2002, 12:02 PM
*

avkills
Jul 1, 2002, 12:09 PM
MOTU already has 2 Firewire Audio interfaces. They look like they kick arse.

Apple buying Emagic is just to fill a void in their Pro Software lineup.

editing = FCP
compositing = Shake
multi-track/MIDI = Logic

Makes sense to me.

-mark

mymemory
Jul 1, 2002, 12:21 PM
I can not imagine how the people from MOTU is feeling now after been so devoted to Apple for so many years, the same with Digidesign.

There are gonna be some changes in the near future. I just do not want to feel encapsulated with only Apple products.

Bonte
Jul 1, 2002, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Foocha
How would Apple feel if Microsoft bought Quark and ended development of QuarkXpress for Mac?

MS made Halo X-box only so Apple is free to do the same. Kill quarkxpress for Mac and Quark is dead.

mymemory
Jul 1, 2002, 12:31 PM
Avid is way too superior than FCP. You can not edit a soupera in FCP, using 6 hours of clips. Every video editor knows that FCP is good to edit a TV comertial, the industry is big in that field, but Avid is a pro machine in all aspects.

I really do not like Apple movement, yes, it looks M$ stuff.

I like Free Midi ten times more than OMS. I would like to know what Apple is gonna do now, I hope not another experiment that is gonna take another year to take form.

pgwalsh
Jul 1, 2002, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by synergy


The difference IMO is that Worldcom went on a binge buying spree not matching what they need to what they got. Apple is matching what they need to what they buy.

Worldcom made the same moves as Nortel. They bought a lot of small companies, but didn't integrate them well and many of the products competed with what they already had. Cisco buy's products that compliment their lineup. I believe Apple is taking this approach.

I'm rather surprised and excited to see apple buy EMagic. I felt like the musical side of the Mac has been forgotten. Now if they purchase Native-Insturments things will get heated-up. I guess it's time to get rid of Cubase. One product I'd like to see run on OS X is Fruityloops. Bastards say they'll never make-it-for-the-mac. Reason's great, but they don't support VST.

I could see apple working closely with Digidesign now that they've bought EMagic. I don't see them looking to purchase Digidesign because it's primarily a Mac product. Logic is a better midi sequencer and they’ve been working closely with Digidesign to integrate the two products. I don’t see Apple purchasing a music hardware based company like M-Audio/Midiman.

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 12:46 PM
WOW WOW WOW! this is unbelievable! i haven't been this psyched in a long time. i guess this is the reason for the big hold-up of Logic for OSX. Logic is my main app for production and i was beginning to get worried. my favorite app and my favorite computer are now a single 2-headed beast! nice.

crassusad44
Jul 1, 2002, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Foocha
How would Apple feel if Microsoft bought Quark and ended development of QuarkXpress for Mac?

Quark is dead already. Their product is overpriced, and has not evolved much since the mid-90s. With more and more pro people in the industry supporting PDF, InDesign has something coming for it... If M$ bought Quark and killed the Mac version, they would at the same time kill Quark. DTP on a Windows machine is a joke (you can't even color manage the darn win**** boxes...)

Kid Red
Jul 1, 2002, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
WOW WOW WOW! this is unbelievable! i haven't been this psyched in a long time. i guess this is the reason for the big hold-up of Logic for OSX. Logic is my main app for production and i was beginning to get worried. my favorite app and my favorite computer are now a single 2-headed beast! nice.

No, as noted on MacNN the reason for the hold up on Logic 5 is 10.2 not this sale.

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Kid Red


No, as noted on MacNN the reason for the hold up on Logic 5 is 10.2 not this sale.

yeah, there is supposed to be major improvements to Core Audio in 10.2. i'm using eMagic's interface right now and Core can only see 2ins and 2outs. 10.2 should fix this for sure. i didn't mean it literally, just real excited about the news. i think the hold up for most of the audio stuff is 10.2 Hey, atleast we have Reason to play with until then!

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by mymemory
Avid is way too superior than FCP. You can not edit a soupera in FCP, using 6 hours of clips. Every video editor knows that FCP is good to edit a TV comertial, the industry is big in that field, but Avid is a pro machine in all aspects.

I really do not like Apple movement, yes, it looks M$ stuff.

I like Free Midi ten times more than OMS. I would like to know what Apple is gonna do now, I hope not another experiment that is gonna take another year to take form.

MIDI shouldn't be a concern if you're in OSX. it has Core MIDI built in to the OS. i've been using it with Reason 2.0 and Ableton Live and it works great. No more OMS or Free MIDI. just plug in and it works! i say good riddance. one more way to streamline my set up. and no more ASIO neede with Core Audio. i think we'll be much happier this way.

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Moxiemike
and all the audio people were belly aching about "apple doesn't care about us anymore"

All I can say is WOW.

If they can rework a way to have Reason "Rewire" into logic, ala cubase, I'm sold. :)

hot!

Logic 5 currently supports ReWire and i'm sure the OSX version will support ReWire 2. This is the best news we've had in a while! bring on 10.2 so we can get busy! way to go Apple!

3rdpath
Jul 1, 2002, 01:34 PM
does logic presently use oms?

i like freemidi much more than oms but if apple's core audio/midi eliminates the need for both of them--i say fine...but only if core keeps up with new instruments and their patchlists(thats my main gripe with oms).

reason rocks and 2.0 is core ready(though its kinda vaporware at this time...).

man, i hope this is all good and doesn't create a bigger load of proprietary dung than we already have to deal with....:eek:

Dunepilot
Jul 1, 2002, 01:39 PM
this is INCREDIBLE news. Looks like Apple learned their lesson with Bungie. I just hope they make the Environment of Logic a LOT simpler. This has been my main complaint with the product.

But still. Wicked news

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by 3rdpath
does logic presently use oms?

i like freemidi much more than oms but if apple's core audio/midi eliminates the need for both of them--i say fine...but only if core keeps up with new instruments and their patchlists(thats my main gripe with oms).

reason rocks and 2.0 is core ready(though its kinda vaporware at this time...).

man, i hope this is all good and doesn't create a bigger load of proprietary dung than we already have to deal with....:eek:

this is great to talk music for a change at macrumors! anyway, OMS and FreeMIDI are just OS9's way of getting MIDI in and out. Any app that has MIDI support, theoretically can use OMS. What they did with Core is they got the developers of OMS and came up with a way to build it right into OSX. it works great. you don't need OMS or FreeMIDI. all you have to do is install the driver for your keyboard or interface and plug in! ultra low latency. Core audio works in a similar way to having ASIO drivers built right into OSX. but better. Very low latency and 10.2 should bring all sorts of goodies like multiple in/out and 5.1 mixing capabilities. Reason 2.0 is killer, even in it's current form. the new synth and sampler are great and it will only get better. maybe Apple will aquire Propellerhead next ; )
overall i think things are looking good for Mac musicians. i felt totally different about a week ago. great news.

zon7
Jul 1, 2002, 01:48 PM
Isn't the Tribunal going to take Apple for a Monopolistic actitude?

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Dunepilot
this is INCREDIBLE news. Looks like Apple learned their lesson with Bungie. I just hope they make the Environment of Logic a LOT simpler. This has been my main complaint with the product.

But still. Wicked news

although Logic has room(very little) for some improvements, i think the worst thing Apple could do with this is to take technology and make a whole new app. i would be really depressed if we saw a dumbed-down version of Logic called iMusician or something silly. Logic is a PRO app and i'd like it to stay that way. not to say your idea is bad. "ease of use" is always welcome. i just hope they don't change it too much or worse, change it's name. it sounds trivial but familiarity is a big deal to people. i don't see this happening though. i think emagic will still have it's own identity, they are the experts after all. only now, they are Apple employees. i'm really excited about this deal. i just hope Apple doesn't go and screw it up. fingers crossed!

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 02:31 PM
i've just heard from an emagic rep that there MAY be a special offer/discounts to current Windows Logic owners who want to make the jump to Mac. this is very clever and may benefit the whole "switch" campaign in a big way.

mdntcallr
Jul 1, 2002, 02:32 PM
Avid is a huge company with:

Pro Tools (digidesign) - VIP for artists and musicians
Avid systems - Total film & tv industry rely on them

With this, they would next need to get adobe.

Well, these are good companies which could play well as part of apple.

modul8tr
Jul 1, 2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Moxiemike
and all the audio people were belly aching about "apple doesn't care about us anymore"

All I can say is WOW.

If they can rework a way to have Reason "Rewire" into logic, ala cubase, I'm sold. :)

hot!

God I could not be happier to hear this. Two inovative companies together. That Rocks!! I LOVE Emagic!

Hey Moxiemike, Reason does Rewire into Logic in my 4.8.1 version. I don't know what you mean by "rework" but in my experience it works great! I also Rewire Reason into Ableton Live 1.5 which is SUCH the slick program, and an immensely powerful combo. I recommend it if you've not tried it yet.

modul8tr:D

Brent Turbo
Jul 1, 2002, 02:38 PM
It's obvious that Apple is in the process of positioning themselves as the "go-to" company for post production software and hardware. My guess is that Emagic's technology will be integrated into Final Cut, just like all the other aquisitions they've made, in order to make it the most comlete package available for compositing, surround mixing, and just about every other post production task you can think of.

I don't know if they can topple the Discreet flint/flame/inferno empire, but it looks like they're going to make some damn fine software trying.

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by modul8tr


God I could not be happier to hear this. Two inovative companies together. That Rocks!! I LOVE Emagic!

Hey Moxiemike, Reason does Rewire into Logic in my 4.8.1 version. I don't know what you mean by "rework" but in my experience it works great! I also Rewire Reason into Ableton Live 1.5 which is SUCH the slick program, and an immensely powerful combo. I recommend it if you've not tried it yet.

modul8tr:D

i use Reason and Live together as well. it is such a solid setup for live shows. got any music online? i'd love to hear it.

groovebuster
Jul 1, 2002, 03:02 PM
... but I know that a lot of Windows/Logic users are verry pissed about the announcement, that there will be only Mac products from September on anymore from emagic.

Don't forget, that 35% of the Logic installations were Windows based. They feel like kicked in the ass by apple now. Believe me, the last thing they'll do ist to switch to the Mac now. Before they will switch to Cubase SX. And a special offer to switch to the Mac from the PC with Logic is like a slap into the face for those people. They have a working setup that costed a *****-load and it is worthless now. Why should they spent a lot of money now just to use the Mac if they can do just the same as before?? Not to mention all the third party plug-ins and other software that don't work anymore on the Mac. and have to be purchased again or cross-updated.

I am really worried about that step by Apple. So don't get over excited. So far (here in Germany) I hear only bad comments about the news, even from Mac users.

But at least Apple bought a german company! The know what is good! :D ;)

groovebuster

nero007
Jul 1, 2002, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by zon7
Isn't the Tribunal going to take Apple for a Monopolistic actitude?

They're not preventing anyone else from developing this stuff for the Mac. And all of their software can be uninstalled.

Nebrie
Jul 1, 2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by bsharp


Worldcom got into trouble by misrepresenting their finances, not by buying other companies. This is a sound strategy, not a decietful tactic.

No, that's not entirely correct. They got in trouble by buying too many companies that didn't integrate well, leaving them with increasing debt and shrinking revenues. As a result, they chose to misrepresent their finances to cover up the disaster they created.

nero007
Jul 1, 2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by mdntcallr
Avid is a huge company with:

Pro Tools (digidesign) - VIP for artists and musicians
Avid systems - Total film & tv industry rely on them

With this, they would next need to get adobe.

Well, these are good companies which could play well as part of apple.

After that, they can buy the world!

Nebrie
Jul 1, 2002, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by DavPeanut
Why wont apple buy up nVidia? Its at a 52 week low right now. Apple could easily do that. It would allow for apple to make its own video cards.

Because buying Nvidia which would require a big premium would require pretty much Apple's entire cash balance. They really don't need that now.

daRAT
Jul 1, 2002, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by strider42


Let none of us ever forget that apple is a multibillion dollar corporation who's only responsibility and mission is to make money for its shareholders. Apple is not interested in being the "good guys", they are interested only in money. I like apple's products, but have no illusions about what they are as a company.

Exactly, alternate history could have Apple in the postion Microsoft is now. ALL big corporations are run like Pirates of old, others your a dot-com and dead.

Apple can be as ruthless as Microsoft, Oracle or Sun, although to be fair Apple doesn't seem to whine about it like the last two companies above.

It is called competition and we the users get the best of both worlds (I use both pc and mac).

Hell I wish MS would dump media player and license Quciktime again :] Can anyone tell me why that ended?

:cool:

aafuss1
Jul 1, 2002, 04:34 PM
Well, now Apple bought 3d software companies-so now a msic applications company? iLogic?, Final Sound Pro?. My guess Apple will acquire Stardock-a PC company that produces great customization software. Thgis wiould then mean OS X could become more customizable-and poeople could start "skinnig" OSX programs. Or maybe Apple could acquire Credo, makers of Life Forms 3D- discountine the Windows version, but kepp the Mac version. I know Logic-a cut-down version were given away as a full version in UK magazines. Or maybe eovia's Amapi 3D- drop the Win. version-only sell the mac version.

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by groovebuster
... but I know that a lot of Windows/Logic users are verry pissed about the announcement, that there will be only Mac products from September on anymore from emagic.

Don't forget, that 35% of the Logic installations were Windows based. They feel like kicked in the ass by apple now. Believe me, the last thing they'll do ist to switch to the Mac now. Before they will switch to Cubase SX. And a special offer to switch to the Mac from the PC with Logic is like a slap into the face for those people. They have a working setup that costed a *****-load and it is worthless now. Why should they spent a lot of money now just to use the Mac if they can do just the same as before?? Not to mention all the third party plug-ins and other software that don't work anymore on the Mac. and have to be purchased again or cross-updated.

I am really worried about that step by Apple. So don't get over excited. So far (here in Germany) I hear only bad comments about the news, even from Mac users.

But at least Apple bought a german company! The know what is good! :D ;)

groovebuster

good point. i didn't even think about that. i just hope Apple doesn't ruin or change Logic. that would be upsetting, especially if they raised the price.

beatle888
Jul 1, 2002, 04:53 PM
About 18 years ago I use to use an Alesis sequencer and drum maching
along with a keyboard and guitar to recorde music into my four track.

But I have know idea as to where to start now. How would I make a
basic hobbyist set up?

I assume theres a device that has jacks for my guitar and midi keyboards.
And just plug that device into a firewire port that a software program like
cubase records and then you go on to edit and sequene in cubase?


Please let me know if I understand this. Thanks.

_xLs_
Jul 1, 2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Dunepilot
I just hope they make the Environment of Logic a LOT simpler. This has been my main complaint with the product.

But still. Wicked news

That's what I hope, too, but I do not think this is gonna happen, because the people who are making this masterpiece of software are still the same. So I think we should not expect too much of it, as far as the legendary Apple-Ease-Of-Use. The same happened to DVD Studio Pro, which was an evolution of DVDirector which they bought from ASTARTE. They did most of the work under the Hood... that's what I expect from the first realease.

What I am waiting for is a App like Logic, but with the easy use of Audio material like in Ableton Live with better sounding Time-Stretching.
And this, I think could be a creat starting point for a future iApp...

just my 2 cents. :-)

xelterran
Jul 1, 2002, 05:13 PM
They should buy steinberg - the guys who make cubase next mwahahaha.. :D I think apple should keep logic as a pro-app tho - i use it myself and preferr it to cubse really.

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by beatle888
About 18 years ago I use to use an Alesis sequencer and drum maching
along with a keyboard and guitar to recorde music into my four track.

But I have know idea as to where to start now. How would I make a
basic hobbyist set up?

I assume theres a device that has jacks for my guitar and midi keyboards.
And just plug that device into a firewire port that a software program like
cubase records and then you go on to edit and sequene in cubase?


Please let me know if I understand this. Thanks.

a basic setup could go like this:

1. Computer(obviously)
2. Sequencer/Recorder Package-i use Logic and ProTools but there are many options. Magix music studio is VERY similar to the low-end Logic(MicroLogic AV) and can be had for $30. or you could go up to a $30,000 ProTools setup. Go to a Guitar Center or Sam Ash and do a little research, Computer Music Magazine is a good start and will help you get going.
3. Synth-no need to drop thousands on a hardware keyboard anymore. there are a TON of virtual instruments out there as well as "all in one" packages like Propellerhead's Reason which could keep you busy for the rest of your life.
4. MIDI controller keyboard-these are getting cheaper and better everyday. opt for one with USB built in. expect to pay a hundred and change for a decent one.
5. Audio Interface/SoundCard-again, lots of options here. my advice is to choose your sequencing/recording package first and then find out which ones work the best with it. most of the major sequencer manufacturers are making interfaces to compliment the software too. you can go USB, FireWire, PCI, it's all up to your needs and budget.
6. Mixer-kind of optional depending on mhat your needs are. a good idea if you plan to record multiple instruments at once and to monitor the computer's output. a little project studio mixer can be had for as little as $99. the behringer euroracks are nice.
7. Microphone-if you plan to do any vocals. go for the industry standard Shure sm-57. a good all purpose mic for little cash.

that should be all you need to record pro-quality tracks for a budget. again, research is your best friend. start reading product reviews and magazines. you'll pick it up in no time. start here http://www.computermusic.co.uk
hope that helps. feel free to email me if you have questions. i could talk about this stuff all day. good luck!

badtz
Jul 1, 2002, 07:03 PM
WHOA!

I was VERY shocked by this news......!!!!

As a motu user, this kinda puts motu user's in an awkward situation..........

I don't think they should've killed off the pc side of development. From a business stand-point I understand why, but I don't think that is a smart thing to do.

I'm curious as to what they'll do with this down the road & if motu will/can keep up.........!!!

LethalWolfe
Jul 1, 2002, 07:15 PM
FCP and Apple have stolen all of Avid's thunder and then some. Is FCP as mature a product as, let's say, MC? No. But it will be in a couple of years and unless Avid makes some changes they are going to see Apple zip right by them.

Many places don't need to have an Avid in every bay, but they did anyway 'cause there was nothing else to choose from. Now there is (and it's a hell of a lot cheaper). Many places that used Avids for their off-line editing have switched to FCP (or they are planning to after milking their massive Avid investment for the next couple of years).

I honestly think there is a only a small part of the video/film post industry that uses the Avid to it's full potential and/or would be hindered by using FCP.

Personally, I'd love to see Apple come out w/a competitive line of software for audio editing and compositing. Imagine how nice it would be to have the ability to buy a "complete package" that would allow all of your post programs to work seamlessly w/one another? Much like how Premiere has very good intergration w/AE and Photoshop.


Lethal

Wry Cooter
Jul 1, 2002, 08:13 PM
I hope apple uses this to lower the cost of entry and increase the ease of use for music applications and does create an integrated iApp-- it could do very well in the market.

What made me buy my Apple II years back, was that I read of a four voice sampling synth, and sequencer. What made me buy a mac plus was the Laserwriter and DTP. Years later, I still have yet to have set up a decent midi/digital audio set up because of the cost of entry and competition. The first time I bought Opcode Vision, it would not fit on my PowerBook of that time, where I really wanted to use it. When Cubase and ProTools started creating audio solutions below 1000 dollars, I nearly went for them, but which one? I had friends with studios that went with Cubase, on a PC, because the hardware was cheaper. Apple was really not healthy then, and the PC stuff stole a market they used to own.

This is a chance for them to get it back. Right now, it seems there is not really any quality product between the lowest end "teach your self piano" styled apps, and the apps that can handle Digital Audio and Midi at once.

Apple did very well applying themselves to this market gap that existed for Video.

Edge100
Jul 1, 2002, 09:44 PM
Well, I was shocked!

My two cents about what Apple needs to do with this:

1) DO NOT dumb down Logic Audio. It is a VERY powerful, pro-level program. The key word there is PRO!!! If you know what you are doing, the environment is a wonderful thing. You can program yourself an almost limitless routing system. You need to take the time to learn it properly. It isnt for beginners. But pro audio is not the kind of thing that should be dumbed down. To make computer-based music these days, you need most of the tools that Logic gives you. Compare Logic to Cubase, with its ugly-ass interface and 'beyond-comprehension' implementation of effects (effects ALWAYS take up CPU cycles, whether or not audio is actually running through them...this SEVERELY limits the utility of anything but the fastest computers). Logic allows you to be very intricate.

2) Take Micrologic AV, and make an iApp of it. Just to piss of Avid a little more, make a nice competitor for ProTools Free. 8 audio tracks, 16 MIDI tracks, VST instruments, no environment, decent (but not top notch) built in FX. Give it away with every new Mac, and you're set. Its not enough for any really serious work, but it'll do the trick for all but the pros (a la iMovie).

3) Really start innovating. EMagic has been hampered by follwoing Steinberg's lead (with VST and with Rewire, for example). Really shore up the Logic interface (which still lacks behind Digital Performer, IMHO). Implement some kind of VST System Link like Steinberg has. Basically, be an industry leader. Apple-branded Firewire audio hardware (high AND low end). Strike a deal with Yamaha to licence mLan, and make an absolutely killer audio/MIDI firewire box for the ultra-highend.

And screw ProTools. They've been fooling people with their $15,000 hardware and crappy MIDI capabilities for long enough. Their hardware is unmatched (so far), but computers are now fast enough that they can handle most of the hard work natively. For example, we dont really need TDM plug ins anymore. VST is getting there on the host CPU.

Anyway, I've gone on too long. Good work, Apple!

D0ct0rteeth
Jul 1, 2002, 10:21 PM
Although the software end of the purchase is great, everyone is forgetting the hardware end. With this purchase we basically have the next digital hub device spelled out for us. an external surround sound card.

http://www.emagic.de/english/products/hardware/emi26.html

Apple has only stereo sound support and is getting flamed by both gamers and audiophiles alike. The Soundblaster Live fiasco is well known and nobody has a 4.1 or 5.1 solution.

Completely necessary for the digital hub.

with eMagic they have the next iApp (Micrologic AV), ProApp (Logic Audio) and digital hub device. (EMI 216)

Damn nice purchase if they ask me :)

C-

DrGruv1
Jul 1, 2002, 10:57 PM
WOW Oh WOW and more WOW...

Can they do it without messing up my sacred Logic Plat?

I'm an old notator user on atari from the eighties...

I jumped to the Mac in '91 the features were SO good, I felt left behind.

Can they do it? - make it better faster er stronger!?!

Dr. Gruv
:)

tjwett
Jul 1, 2002, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by Edge100
Well, I was shocked!

My two cents about what Apple needs to do with this:

1) DO NOT dumb down Logic Audio. It is a VERY powerful, pro-level program. The key word there is PRO!!! If you know what you are doing, the environment is a wonderful thing. You can program yourself an almost limitless routing system. You need to take the time to learn it properly. It isnt for beginners. But pro audio is not the kind of thing that should be dumbed down. To make computer-based music these days, you need most of the tools that Logic gives you. Compare Logic to Cubase, with its ugly-ass interface and 'beyond-comprehension' implementation of effects (effects ALWAYS take up CPU cycles, whether or not audio is actually running through them...this SEVERELY limits the utility of anything but the fastest computers). Logic allows you to be very intricate.

2) Take Micrologic AV, and make an iApp of it. Just to piss of Avid a little more, make a nice competitor for ProTools Free. 8 audio tracks, 16 MIDI tracks, VST instruments, no environment, decent (but not top notch) built in FX. Give it away with every new Mac, and you're set. Its not enough for any really serious work, but it'll do the trick for all but the pros (a la iMovie).

3) Really start innovating. EMagic has been hampered by follwoing Steinberg's lead (with VST and with Rewire, for example). Really shore up the Logic interface (which still lacks behind Digital Performer, IMHO). Implement some kind of VST System Link like Steinberg has. Basically, be an industry leader. Apple-branded Firewire audio hardware (high AND low end). Strike a deal with Yamaha to licence mLan, and make an absolutely killer audio/MIDI firewire box for the ultra-highend.

And screw ProTools. They've been fooling people with their $15,000 hardware and crappy MIDI capabilities for long enough. Their hardware is unmatched (so far), but computers are now fast enough that they can handle most of the hard work natively. For example, we dont really need TDM plug ins anymore. VST is getting there on the host CPU.

Anyway, I've gone on too long. Good work, Apple!

Right! DO NOT DUMB IT DOWN! don't even make an iApp out of it for all i care. just keep it PRO. like you said, not everyone should be fiddling with this stuff anyway. this is my only fear...Apple renames it something ridiculous or strips it down to a FruityLoops equivilent or worse, doubles the price Apple-style. I've been loyal to Apple and Logic since day one and this buyout could be the best or worse thing to happen to me yet.

tjwett
Jul 2, 2002, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by D0ct0rteeth
Although the software end of the purchase is great, everyone is forgetting the hardware end. With this purchase we basically have the next digital hub device spelled out for us. an external surround sound card.

http://www.emagic.de/english/products/hardware/emi26.html

Apple has only stereo sound support and is getting flamed by both gamers and audiophiles alike. The Soundblaster Live fiasco is well known and nobody has a 4.1 or 5.1 solution.

Completely necessary for the digital hub.

with eMagic they have the next iApp (Micrologic AV), ProApp (Logic Audio) and digital hub device. (EMI 216)

Damn nice purchase if they ask me :)

C-

i've been using the 2|6 for location recording for a while now and it's great. they are also coming out with a 6|2 to compliment it, giving a collective total of 6ins and 6outs. be aware that these devices are really designed for pro music recording and have features/functions that would do an iConsumer little good. although it would be cool if they borrowed some of the technology to make a seperate Apple branded interface that could support 24bit/96khz and the like. i hope they don't destroy this amazing software by dumbing it down to an iApp. i've been using Logic forever and i'd rather not see it change it's direction. it's cool with me that Apple owns them and they will probably start selling it direct but being owned by Apple could mean good or bad, especially if they decide to start over-pricing in Apple tradition.

Archer
Jul 2, 2002, 12:19 AM
Guys,

Relax, Apple will not dumb down Logic for an iApp. iMovie is not a dumbed down version of FCP. If it was it would be so easy to move on up. The metaphor is different, the tools and obviously the features are different. iDVD is different from DVD Studio. All the iApps are built for the consumer in mind, they may use some of the tech from their Pro line siblings but they are different. I wouldn't worry or have a deep fear that all these young'ins are going to steal your jobs. They may steal your jobs anyway, but that's because Logic, Shake/Tremor/Chalice, and FCP or so damn affordable. Then it'll be all about skills.

To get poetic, let these programs be the rise of democratic media tools, let the revolution begin, and let us all tell our stories - all of them for the world to hear, see, and remember.

modul8tr
Jul 2, 2002, 01:22 AM
Apple-branded Firewire audio hardware (high AND low end). Strike a deal with Yamaha to licence mLan, and make an absolutely killer audio/MIDI firewire box for the ultra-highend.



God, that's making my mouth water!!!!:D

Rock on!

Foocha
Jul 2, 2002, 02:02 AM
It's unlikely that Apple are planning to make an iApp out of this - there's no demand! Consumers are interested in family movies and such, but not many of them are interested in making their own music on a computer!

More likely they'll produce an education version of Logic at a lower price.

However, they have to protect their investement, so I would suspect we'll see them improving Logic and integrating it tightly into OS X - to deliver industry leading feature. The last thing they'll do is strip it down!

Of course Apple is a commercial organisation - but they still need to come across as the good guys - image and public perception are very important to them as a business - particuarly because of their underdog status.

Scottgfx
Jul 2, 2002, 02:03 AM
Wow, and I thought all of the musicians were still using Atari STs! :)

Anyway... I remember a neat MIDI program for the Amiga called "Bars and Pipes". In the early `90's Microsoft bought them and then I never heard anything more about it. What happened to them?

tjwett
Jul 2, 2002, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by modul8tr
Apple-branded Firewire audio hardware (high AND low end). Strike a deal with Yamaha to licence mLan, and make an absolutely killer audio/MIDI firewire box for the ultra-highend.



God, that's making my mouth water!!!!:D

Rock on!

yeah, mLan never really took off like i thought it would. it was truly ahead of it's time when released. i wound up selling my a4000 sampler and then they went and came out with that whole control center and everything. damn. i hope mLan makes it. i'm for anything that will get me out of this tangled web of cables! imagine, all your audio tracks and MIDI in ONE cable. it already exists. everyone just needs to get on board...i can't wait to wave a fond farewell to traditional MIDI cables and 1/4" wiring.

modul8tr
Jul 2, 2002, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by tjwett


imagine, all your audio tracks and MIDI in ONE cable. it already exists. everyone just needs to get on board...i can't wait to wave a fond farewell to traditional MIDI cables and 1/4" wiring.


Amen to that!:D

Wry Cooter
Jul 2, 2002, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by Archer
Guys,

Relax, Apple will not dumb down Logic for an iApp. iMovie is not a dumbed down version of FCP. If it was it would be so easy to move on up. The metaphor is different, the tools and obviously the features are different.

Since when is the creation of an iApp automatically mean that an already existing pro level app will be made unavailable or garbage? Where does that sort of thinking even come from?

Apple will keep a pro Logic in order to have something to sell...

That does not mean creating a useful iApp with a partial feature set to help sell Macs, and to help move people into using midi/audio apps is a horrible idea.

Maybe you were hoping you would get full Logic for nothing just for buying a Mac?

Sorry, I want an iApp from this purchase or they may as well have not bought it. It will help boost sales of the pro version, by warming people to the paradigm. I think many people underestimate the size of the market of people who have not made the leap into pro audio midi software, but have wanted to for years because the price of entry was just a little too high, the choices just a little too competitive, and basics of the software could not be learned or tried out before making the committment. I don't have any problem with Channel Strips or the concept of real world multitrack recording and Midi, but doing this in an integrated environment with a virtual mixing board and effect and patching has its own software bound peculiarities that could be ironed out by Apples acquisition, and could familarize those that DO want more, without cannibalizing the upper tier program.

topicolo
Jul 2, 2002, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by DavPeanut
Why wont apple buy up nVidia? Its at a 52 week low right now. Apple could easily do that. It would allow for apple to make its own video cards.

1) Apple doesn't have enough cash to buy them without getting indigestion. Apple won't be able (or willing) to pay for them with full cash, and it wouldn't be worth it to issue new shares to buy them since Apple's shares are pretty low themselves right now.
2) If they DID buy Nvidia, Apple would HAVE to keep releasing pc Geforces because if they didn't, they wouldn't get enough revenue to keep up R&D and ATi, Matrox and all of nVidia's other competitors will leave the Geforce in the dust.
3) Apple risks alienating ATi, thereby reducing their supply of graphics cards to just one source, which is never good.

Apple has everything they need from nVidia right now, why would they do something really stupid and buy them?