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Old Nov 2, 2012, 02:01 PM   #451
daveathall
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Originally Posted by Jibbajabba View Post
Or if Argos sells them you could get 45 more as Argos voicher and buy the 32GB N4 for like 3 on top

VERY tempting.
Yes, I agree, never thought about that, the Argos voucher option would look tempting.

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Old Nov 2, 2012, 02:26 PM   #452
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Having no LTE isn't a deal breaker because I'm still considering this phone. However, if you live in an LTE area like myself and have excellent coverage (normally 25-25, up to 50mbps), its a really hard decision to go with Hspa+ (and get throttled at 3gb of 3G data instead of 5gb on LTE).

Edit: just read engadgets review. Hopefully those really werent final production units because that wasn't impressive. I wonder how repairing/exchanging one of this works if you do crack the glass. With apple, it was a 3 minute drive for me to an apple store and a 10 minute wait.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 02:53 PM   #453
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Are these going on sale at midnight and shipping that day?
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:29 PM   #454
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How come if you want LTE you have to work with the carriers, but if you want to just use HSPA+ or any of their other radios, it's okay to create an unlocked device tuned to those frequencies? Couldn't Google just create an unlocked CDMA version; a Nexus with those radio frequencies?

And what's Microsoft or RIM doing with the carriers? We all know Apple's got software control in the bag already with the majority of carriers, how will MS and RIM do it? Will MS/RIM just let the carriers choose update times and bloat it up?

I'm not following why Google has so little leverage...
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:44 PM   #455
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How come if you want LTE you have to work with the carriers, but if you want to just use HSPA+ or any of their other radios, it's okay to create an unlocked device tuned to those frequencies? Couldn't Google just create an unlocked CDMA version; a Nexus with those radio frequencies?

And what's Microsoft or RIM doing with the carriers? We all know Apple's got software control in the bag already with the majority of carriers, how will MS and RIM do it? Will MS/RIM just let the carriers choose update times and bloat it up?

I'm not following why Google has so little leverage...
It's different based on the different companies. With GSM/HSPA+ with AT&T and T-Mobile, they don't care what's on the device so long as it's running their frequencies. I believe Verizon and Sprint lock down since voice still travels over their CDMA network. I don't believe you can have any Unlocked phone that they haven't white listed. Source (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2397377,00.asp)

Google also doesn't have any clout since they don't have a strong presence in phone market. Sure they make the Nexus line, but compared to Samsung, they don't sell nearly as much. And why bend over for someone like Google when you have Samsung bending over backwards to accommodate your every request (cough bloatware and more specifically, the stupid Verizon logo on the home button of the Note 2.) So power comes down to scale. Remember, these are the same people who told Apple to go shove it back in the day. Only reason Apple got into Verizon is because the consumer wanted it, not the other way around. It's a money thing for CDMA Carriers.

It's also a money thing for GSM Carriers. Since AT&T's roll out right now is not nearly as complete as Verizon's, the number of LTE cities is smaller comparably. There's no guarantee that this will sell a bunch, so it's not wroth manufacturing. It's simple supply and demand with this one especially at a price which Google wanted to sell it at.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:44 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
How come if you want LTE you have to work with the carriers, but if you want to just use HSPA+ or any of their other radios, it's okay to create an unlocked device tuned to those frequencies? Couldn't Google just create an unlocked CDMA version; a Nexus with those radio frequencies?

And what's Microsoft or RIM doing with the carriers? We all know Apple's got software control in the bag already with the majority of carriers, how will MS and RIM do it? Will MS/RIM just let the carriers choose update times and bloat it up?

I'm not following why Google has so little leverage...
Could be several things. Maybe Google is afraid to spook the carriers and doesn't want to get into a situation where the carriers push Windows 8 and iPhones over Android. Maybe Google is very, very serious about being hands off with phones. After all, they own Motorola yet Motorola's offerings are nothing special. Or maybe Google just has too much on it's plate right now to concentrate well on any one thing.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:50 PM   #457
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So is Microsoft giving up control of Windows Phone 8 updates too to cater to Verizon?
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 04:04 PM   #458
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So is Microsoft giving up control of Windows Phone 8 updates too to cater to Verizon?
I wouldn't say give up, but rather it's still up to Verizon. In their eyes, it's their network and they want control, and for the most part, they get it. Microsoft will submit their patch/version upgrade, whatever you want to call it, to Verizon. They do their internal testing and what not then decide when to release the update. At the end of the day, Verizon is the power player here. As to what kind of deals they have, I'm not sure. I can't think they have too much since Windows Phone is barely a blip on the Market Share stats.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 04:11 PM   #459
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I wouldn't say give up, but rather it's still up to Verizon. In their eyes, it's their network and they want control, and for the most part, they get it. Microsoft will submit their patch/version upgrade, whatever you want to call it, to Verizon. They do their internal testing and what not then decide when to release the update. At the end of the day, Verizon is the power player here. As to what kind of deals they have, I'm not sure. I can't think they have too much since Windows Phone is barely a blip on the Market Share stats.

I see. Thanks. Interesting stuff.

We'll see if what Google does. Maybe they already have plans for carrier specific versions (as this rumor suggests: http://androidandme.com/2012/10/smar...anded-devices/) and are just wisely keeping mum to spur Play Store sales.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 04:19 PM   #460
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Cool

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I see. Thanks. Interesting stuff.

We'll see if what Google does. Maybe they already have plans for carrier specific versions (as this rumor suggests: http://androidandme.com/2012/10/smar...anded-devices/) and are just wisely keeping mum to spur Play Store sales.
Totally hoping that's true. It would stop the asinine amount of griping that I'm seeing from every tech blog and would be a great benefit to the consumer in the end. For the price on the pay store, unlocked, great value. With the $350 price point, that's the only reason i was able to splurge for one. I flashed one too many ROM's on my note, and some how, i can't get the stock lock screen back, so I'm stuck with it. If it weren't for the price point it is at and what you get for it, I'd be stuck with my note until next Christmas, which would make me sad
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 07:26 PM   #461
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I can't decide between these two phones as well.

The MAIN advantages for the Note II (for me):

I have excellent LTE coverage (avg 25-35, up to 50mbps)
5gb of data before throttling (3G gets throttled after 3gb)
Micro SD for additional 64gb of space
Huge screen for web browsing/multimedia

Advantages for the Nexus:

Excellent price with no contract
Pure android
IPS display

I flip flop back and forth between devices depending on a review or hands on video I see that day. It's a 50/50 toss up at this point.
I'm getting both!
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 07:56 PM   #462
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I can't really make much sense of these benchmarks but they don't look good http://www.anandtech.com/show/6425/g...exus-10-review
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:49 PM   #463
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I can't really make much sense of these benchmarks but they don't look good http://www.anandtech.com/show/6425/g...exus-10-review
Ugh, battery life isn't looking that great. I mean it's looking good, but not as good as we had you hoped. You would think that with the combination of a S4, 2100 battery and HSPA+ that this phone would get really good battery life.

Looks like you will be able to get a day out of it pretty easily, but I think we were all expecting for more.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:52 PM   #464
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Ugh, battery life isn't looking that great. I mean it's looking good, but not as good as we had you hoped. You would think that with the combination of a S4, 2100 battery and HSPA+ that this phone would get really good battery life.

Looks like you will be able to get a day out of it pretty easily, but I think we were all expecting for more.
I'd be happy with a days worth of heavy useage, something I wasn't getting with my previous few phones (iPhone 4/4S and current GS3).
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 09:28 PM   #465
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Those are very alarming benchmarks.

Something doesn't add up. The LG Optimus rates very well, I'm not sure why the Nexus 4 isn't matching it. It's not even close.

This might have something to do with those early test models. Gizmodo alluded to unfinished software that had battery leak.

Google better be paying attention either with a patch before or soon after the November 13th.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 09:34 PM   #466
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Based on what we know about the Optimus G and since the Nexus 4 share similar hardware, its got to be a software thing. Good thing is that if its a software thing, it can and will be fixed.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 09:38 PM   #467
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Well im not really into benchmarks so im not swayed one way or the other. Some of the comments also said that was a Apple biased site so who knows. I never go there so i dont know.

Anyways, it was said today that the new JB 4.2 is going to have a Malware scanner built in to auto scan Apps before it downloads. Here is the article from the Verge.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:08 PM   #468
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Well im not really into benchmarks so im not swayed one way or the other. Some of the comments also said that was a Apple biased site so who knows. I never go there so i dont know.

Anyways, it was said today that the new JB 4.2 is going to have a Malware scanner built in to auto scan Apps before it downloads. Here is the article from the Verge.
I'm pretty sure anandtech is one of the most unbiased sites ever
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:15 PM   #469
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I'm pretty sure anandtech is one of the most unbiased sites ever
I thought so too. I'm not sure why some of the commenters on there think they favour Apple. I don't really visit it that often so I wouldn't know for sure. Maybe they're just really disappointed with the results and jealous of the iPhone 5 benchmarks. I know I'm disappointed but hopefully software updates will fix things.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:30 PM   #470
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More reviews inbound:

CNet
http://reviews.cnet.com/lg-nexus-4/?ttag=gpwl

SlashGear
http://www.slashgear.com/nexus-4-review-02255292/

Wired
http://www.wired.com/reviews/2012/11...op+Stories%29#

EDIT: The SlashGear review also talks about unfinished software leading to poor benchmarks. As does the Wired review.

----------


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I'm pretty sure anandtech is one of the most unbiased sites ever
Yup, they just post the results. Very scientific.

And those results don't look good for the Nexus 4. But something doesn't add up... How can the Nexus 4 and the LG Optimus G's tests have such a huge disparity when they're the same phone except for the software? Engadget asked this very same question in their review.

Something's fishy about that unfinished build that they sent out to the reviewers.

In Engadget's review, it did poorly on their video-test, but the phone lasted the full day. That earned the Nexus 4 a "poor battery" notch in their Positive/Negative list. People who don't read the full review or understand that it's an early model with un-finalized software will simply read that and be put off. (Again, the LG Optimus G did well on the vid-test.)

I'm questioning LG and Google's decision to hand out unfinished models early. Foolish risk which will hurt not the few of us who are into tech and read thoroughly about this stuff, but the average person doing quick research.

Do benchmarks need to optimized first for new software iterations? In this case, for 4.2? Anyone know?

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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:32 PM   #471
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Yup, they just post the results. Very scientific.

And those results don't look good for the Nexus 4. But something doesn't add up... How can the Nexus 4 and the LG Optimus G's tests have such a huge disparity when they're the same phone except for the software? Engadget asked this very same question in their review.

Something's fishy about that unfinished build that they sent out to the reviewers.

In Engadget's review, it did poorly on their video-test, but the phone lasted the full day. That earned the Nexus 4 a "poor battery" notch in their Positive/Negative list. People who don't read the full review or understand that it's an early model with un-finalized software will simply read that and be put off. (Again, the LG Optimus G did well on the vid-test.)

I'm questioning LG and Google's decision to hand out unfinished models early. Foolish risk which will hurt not the few of us who are into tech and read thoroughly about this stuff, but the average person doing quick research.
I agree with assessment in both cases. Anandtech is very scientific and let's the data speak for itself. They just draw conclusions on what you can see. The main concern of mine is this, they are running tests on non-finalized hardware which contain bugs. If you are running tests on hardware and software that isn't finished, then you have an issue since it will skew your results.

We have a control device with the Optimus G. We know how the hardware is suppose to perform. LG has engineers tweaking the heck out of the software to get the most out of the hardware. Since 4.2 is still new, I believe that optimizations still need to be worked out. Even LG's software engineers probably haven't had a crack at it yet in depth since 4.2 is still finishing testing.

I agree with onthecouchagain, why send out units this early with such an early build of the software. They should have waited until later to get units to everyone with the closest RTM software they could. If they are making up for the fact that their even got canceled by just giving out the units for their hands on, they should have had a better NDA embargo instructing the press to wait until closer to the launch date and to wait for the software update they are going to push for everyone.

EDIT: I'd like to point out that Wired's evaluation of the battery life is the same as the Verge's thoughts.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:37 PM   #472
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SlashGear also attributes the puzzling benchmarks to the unfinished software build.

Google or LG or both, y'all fools. If you're trying to sway people to purchase a device unlocked, these early reviews are not going to help the quick researcher. It's going to turn a lot of people away unless the review sites update their reviews with new benchmarks when the final builds come. Unlikely.

Big fumble in trying to spread the Nexus smartphone to the layman.

For the rest of us, hopefully Google is on top of the finalized software.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:43 PM   #473
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SlashGear also attributes the puzzling benchmarks to the unfinished software build.

Google or LG or both, y'all fools. If you're trying to sway people to purchase a device unlocked, these early reviews are not going to help the quick researcher. It's going to turn a lot of people away unless the review sites update their reviews with new benchmarks when the final builds come. Unlikely.

Big fumble in trying to spread the Nexus smartphone to the layman.

For the rest of us, hopefully Google is on top of the finalized software.
Indeed. I'll come back and post my impressions after I get mine. There's no question on weather I'll get it or not. Anything is an improvement over my gimped Note lol.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:52 PM   #474
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Indeed. I'll come back and post my impressions after I get mine. There's no question on weather I'll get it or not. Anything is an improvement over my gimped Note lol.
Looking forward to it.


Besides the LTE and puzzling benchmarks, every review is singing praises regarding almost everything else with the phone.

Particularly love all the talk of how lag-free the device is.

"I can say that performance and responsiveness on the device is second to none. It's a very speedy phone that barely ever hesitated or failed to respond to my touches or commands. In particular, multitasking between a number of applications was no issue for the phone, buoyed up — I presume — by that generous 2GB of RAM." -Verge

"No matter the app or the complexity of the webpage, the Nexus 4 whipped through with zero lag or delay. It’s fast and responsive, and a great playing ground for the new version of Jelly Bean." -SlashGear


Many have said that one of the few remaining reasons preventing them from switching to the otherwise desirable Android OS is the milliseconds (yes, milliseconds) of "lag" it still possesses. This ought to shorten that list.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:53 PM   #475
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Two areas that are a little disappointing to me is the camera and speaker. I've been reading readers comments from all these reviews and some seem to think the software update could help correct them but hows that possible.
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