Adobe Acknowledges That Apple's Flash Prohibition Could Harm Business

[arkmannj]

I was looking forward to CS5 and the Flash Professional being able to export to a native iPhone app.

I don't have any programming skills, but I can do a fair amount in Flash, so I was hoping to make some small apps even if just for myself / friends.

I think if we saw this allowed we might see "Flash Pro" really turn into a Development environment for interactive content that is beyond just "Flash ads/videos" and might help nudge Adobe in that direction. Of course Apple stance in the browser market might help push Adobe into developing an interactive content Dev elopement environment that uses HTML5 which would be nice too. (though that doesn't help with non web based content, such as iPhone/iPad apps)

 

[shervieux]

Stupid Apple..



Why would that be funny? It would be another example of Apple's corporate douchery... Adobe's a decent company run by decent people.. Apple isn't.

I cannot agree with this post. I have gotten better support from Apple than Adobe. Adobe's pricing is getting a way to rediculous for the average business or hobbyist to afford. Their latest version of acrobat does not perform as well as it used to (ie exporting to RTH, JPG, or HTML screws up the format 70% OF THE TIME). Could never understand why in Adobe premier elements I could export a video to flash (FLV), but yet if someone sent me an FLV video to edit for them - I could not import it and would have to pay Adobe for a plug in to do so. Also when the products were under Macromedia (company before Adobe bought them out who used to develop flash, cold fusion, and others), they performed much better and efficient with less crashes. Pricing was a little more reasonable too.

The only good thing about flash is the smaller file sizes for posting on the web, but then the quaility of your video is much much lower. I am looking for a good free converter to convert all my FLV, AVI, AVF, WMF, and others to either MPEG or M4P which is more accepted by Apple, Windows, and Linux platforms. Any suggestions? I have about 1000 videos in all different formats.

 

[robbyx]

Now we see the *real* reason that Apple hates Flash so much. They don't want anyone using Flash - instead of Xcode - to develop iTouch apps. This issue has always been at the heart of the Flash boycott.

Personally, I dislike Flash and I'm happy to see it go. It's buggy and bloated and its time has come and gone. Even if Adobe ships Flash CS5 with the ability to compile iTouch apps, Apple will never allow them into the store.

I applaud Apple's desire to advance open standards and break the stranglehold that certain proprietary plugins have over the web experience. The web is about being open, not locking users into a proprietary format.

Hate on Apple all you want, but they've done a lot more than Microsoft, Adobe, etc. to advance an open, standards-compliant web experience. WebKit is pretty awesome, so awesome that even Google uses it.

Plugins need to go. Users shouldn't have to worry about if this or that plugin is installed, if it's up to date, etc.

 

[Scottsdale]

I honestly wish Apple would cooperate with Adobe and bring flash to the iPhone/ iPod touch/ iPad. I know the fanboy's will flame me for this one, but I honestly think Apple is too damn controlling sometimes. From what I've read, a majority of the iPhone/ iPod touch/ iPad users would be happy to have flash on their devices. I know I would...

I completely agree with you. Jobs doesn't like Adobe, and that's the whole basis for this nonsense. Jobs is single-handedly making the web standard "Flash" obsolete... and it's sick. Too many people spent years learning Flash, and 98% of the web devices were capable of running Flash a year ago. Jobs and his 1/10th of 1% share for the iPad/iPhone OS are going to destroy a standard. We are going to be stuck with Flash websites for a long long time. It would be much better if Apple offered a solution right now that can read Flash sites if it doesn't want to work with Adobe. This is madness.

 

[richardtengcy]

I don't understand the Flash hate here.

My macs always handle flash like crap and overheat and consume tons of CPU, but I was always under the impression this was more due to Apple than to Adobe and some weird restrictions on what the client can do.

I have much weaker PCs that handle flash with no problem, so at least past the Intel move, I would have to assume that the problem is with the Mac client.

It could have been Microsoft playing their dirty secret trick by paying Adobe to be lazy in fixing Flash plug-in issues on OSX.

 

[mdatwood]

Yes, if that does not make my iphone run out of battery in 1 hr web browsing.

I've never understood this reasoning. I can write just as bad HTML5 JS and cause the EXACT same problem. Blame the programmers, not the delivery vehicle.

There stocks would plummet like a turd if they did something that stupid.

It might, or it could rally since Adobe would be looking out for their long term interests. Flash is a key part of their platform. If they keep letting Apple try to marginalize it, it's going to be far worse for them than the short term of hit of playing hardball.

If I was Adobe I would seriously be thinking about 'announcing' that CS5 will be the last release of OSX and explain why. First, Win7 is actually a pretty good OS and that they are tired of being bashed by Apple.

Apple is very close to forgetting that it's the software and the developers that make a platform that people want to use. Apple should be courting all developers instead of cutting them off at the knees on every turn.

 

[Scottsdale]

I am happy to read that others are looking into alternatives to flash because I have to admit that the cooling fan of my 2.2 GHz MBP with 4GB RAM starts going crazy every time I am on a website with flash. I check the activity monitor and as expected it shows at the top of CPU usage Safari Flash. Flash is always the most CPU intensive process and drains my laptop battery.

Run Windows on your Mac and Flash will not drain your battery anymore than html5 with h.264. This all comes down to Apple not giving Adobe access to APIs to utilize h.264 with Flash.

I cannot believe all of the people that buy Jobs's KoolAid daily. Seriously, people are badly informed and educated on this matter, and they're blaming the wrong party. If Apple gave a damn about its users it would work with Adobe to provide a real SOLUTION. But Steve Jobs only cares about AAPL shareholder number one, HIMSELF.

 

[617arg]

I hate to admit but Flash is CPU hog and it would crash and hang my Safari very often....Apple submit these problems to Adobe a long time ago and they didn`t fix the problem until it is too late. Steve Jobs were totally right that they were lazy in fixing their flash plug-in issues.

Another issues i have with Adobe is that their software is freaking expensive. I could have bought a new iMac easily at the price of their Adobe Suite package.

The only reason Flash seems like a resource hog is because we're running it on a Mac. My octo-core Mac Pro with 18 gigs of RAM can't handle even the simplest flash games......... Meanwhile my 5 year old HP laptop, running Windows XP does just fine.

This tells me that it's Apple that is lazy and unwilling to fix problems on their end which cause Flash to crash systems.

As a user I can care less if Flash isn't real code. I just want the web to work properly on my computer and other devices. As it now stands I can't access certain websites because Apple won't allow it, even though they say I have the entire web in my pocket

 

[Flowbee]

This is all payback for 2004, when Adobe discontinued development of FrameMaker for Mac.

 

[Frobozz]

Why? This seems absurd right now because the app store is the shizzle today. However, every other company in the world is working together (with Adobe on open screen project) and while such a big force takes time to gain speed, it's going to steamroll over Apple in the next year or two (three at most).

Right. Like they killed iTunes before? Your implication is that Apple's interface won't be better and it's content won't be better. They will, arguably, always have that edge with the interface and content.

Apple can always respond to market factors to reduce costs or open standards if they were to ever actually face a threat to their market share. Case in point: multitasking. Android did it first-- in a wonky way that satisfied geeks and make regular users dislike it. One less reason to go to Android.

 

[baryon]

I don't care about Flash on portable devices, without a keyboard and a mouse, there is no point in Flash on the iPhone or iPad. But if Apple ever decides to make Flash or any other Adobe product incompatible with Macs, we can always switch back to Windows. I use a computer to use Adobe products. I don't care how the Adobe experience doesn't match the Apple experience, and how "lazy" Adobe are: they're the only people who allow artist to do anything in the digital world.

I find it reassuring to know that Windows will always support everything in case Apple ever takes some radical move.

 

[robbyx]

I completely agree with you. Jobs doesn't like Adobe, and that's the whole basis for this nonsense. Jobs is single-handedly making the web standard "Flash" obsolete... and it's sick. Too many people spent years learning Flash, and 98% of the web devices were capable of running Flash a year ago. Jobs and his 1/10th of 1% share for the iPad/iPhone OS are going to destroy a standard. We are going to be stuck with Flash websites for a long long time. It would be much better if Apple offered a solution right now that can read Flash sites if it doesn't want to work with Adobe. This is madness.

Flash is *NOT* a standard. It is one company's proprietary plugin. There's a big difference. Why should one company, Adobe, have a stranglehold over multimedia on the web? It's bad for consumers, bad for business, and bad for innovation (not to mention a big, fat buggy mess - and it's been that way for years). Good riddance!

 

[FloatingBones]

Stupid Apple..



Why would that be funny? It would be another example of Apple's corporate douchery... Adobe's a decent company run by decent people.. Apple isn't.

What about the report: "Adobe predicted to Surpass Microsoft As top Malware Target in 2010". That's a great reason for Apple to steer its customers away from Adobe products. Adobe achieved this dubious distinction all on their own.

 

[cult hero]

Why would that be funny? It would be another example of Apple's corporate douchery... Adobe's a decent company run by decent people.. Apple isn't.

Huh? I'm not disputing that Apple is cutthroat, however... Adobe? Decent? Ha!

 

[thatisme]

I find it reassuring to know that Windows will always support everything in case Apple ever takes some radical move.

Like VISTA did with all the XP programs? I was burned by that one. Lesson learned.

 

[robbyx]

The only reason Flash seems like a resource hog is because we're running it on a Mac. My octo-core Mac Pro with 18 gigs of RAM can't handle even the simplest flash games......... Meanwhile my 5 year old HP laptop, running Windows XP does just fine.

This tells me that it's Apple that is lazy and unwilling to fix problems on their end which cause Flash to crash systems.

No, actually, it tells me that, despite being a multi-billion dollar company, Adobe can't be bothered to hire a few decent Mac programmers.

 

[fribhey]

If I were Adobe I'd announce that CS5 will be the last Mac release. I'm betting Apple might be persuaded to change the stance on Flash.

yeah because cutting your sales by eliminating half of your customer base is always a fantastic business decision.

good thing you aren't adobe.

 

[FakeWozniak]

And how is flash "bad"?

1. Proprietary, like they tried to make Acrobat.
2. A constant security risk.
3. A conveyance for unwanted advertisements.
4. Bloated and slow.
5. Non-standardized.

Thanks goes to Apple for migrating us away from Office, Photoshop, Flash, floppy drives, serial ports, CRT screens, etc. Truly a visionary company.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Having followed this flash anti-flash controversy since Adobe bought Macromedia, I'm perfectly willing to accept that devs are right, and flash is old flawed tech that should be obsolete by now, and html5 is more than capable as a replacement. Ok fine.

However,

When I want to animate a little cartoon for my neice, I can open flash and draw, import media, animate it, and play it for her.

In html5, I have to learn a f*ing programming language to do it? Or, we're not supposed to, since in the interest of keeping skilled programmers in business, who will presumably do a better job of creating the content, I now have to pay someone several thousand dollars to make it?

F that.

HTML5 will be a success when there's a content composer with a decent GUI people can quickly learn and use. Not before.

 

[JediZenMaster]

Even if apple did allow flash on the iphone. It wouldn't go anywhere. Other than a flash lite software client for symbian and i could be wrong about that. There has been no phone released with flash other than the pre i think. So it's not like adobe is rushing for the mobile platform. The so called Flash for android has been delayed countless times, Blackberry isn't even on the radar, Neither is Windows mobile.

So it seems to me that adobe can't even really get flash to run on a mobile device to begin with.

 

[theBB]

My laptop may heat up a bit from it, but it's about 1/10th of what Java will do to it. If you ask me, I think Java is crappier than Flash.

Yeah, it is hard to argue against this statement.

Many Flash based websites annoy me, because they require quite a bit of loading time just to show some simple slideshow or a few buttons here and there. (Flash is also a bit crash prone as well, but probably not as bad as it used to.) I am not sure if the same people who end up preparing such bandwidth heavy or buggy websites for simple tasks will get magically better at what they do if they switch to HTML5. If Adobe wants to show that Flash can be efficiently run on iPhone they should just demo it on a jailbroken iPhone and give it away to many reviewers to live with it for a week. If the results are good, the publicity might force Apple's hand.

 

[dingamahoo]

I hate to admit but Flash is CPU hog and it would crash and hang my Safari very often....Apple submit these problems to Adobe a long time ago and they didn`t fix the problem until it is too late. Steve Jobs were totally right that they were lazy in fixing their flash plug-in issues.

Another issues i have with Adobe is that their software is freaking expensive. I could have bought a new iMac easily at the price of their Adobe Suite package.

This. I'm really surprised how many users on here don't seem to experience the same problems with Flash that I (and obviously many others) have, and who relentlessly argue against Apple's prohibition of it on mobile devices. For me it's not the crashing that's the worst problem, it's the CPU. I literally cannot operate a Flash window on my black Macbook (4 MB RAM) without the computer getting hot, the fan coming on, and a fully charged battery showing 1 hour or less of power.

Apple's computers and mobile devices are proliferating at a rapid pace. They believe it is in their own best interests and that of their users to take a stand on Flash. If they don't take this stand, alternatives will not become widely adopted. It's that simple.

 

[wescravn]

We all know flash is a bag of hurt, isn't it. I use it, but will be looking to migrating toward html 5.

 

[Scottsdale]

I've never understood this reasoning. I can write just as bad HTML5 JS and cause the EXACT same problem. Blame the programmers, not the delivery vehicle.



It might, or it could rally since Adobe would be looking out for their long term interests. Flash is a key part of their platform. If they keep letting Apple try to marginalize it, it's going to be far worse for them than the short term of hit of playing hardball.

If I was Adobe I would seriously be thinking about 'announcing' that CS5 will be the last release of OSX and explain why. First, Win7 is actually a pretty good OS and that they are tired of being bashed by Apple.

Apple is very close to forgetting that it's the software and the developers that make a platform that people want to use. Apple should be courting all developers instead of cutting them off at the knees on every turn.

Extremely well said. Very nice post. If I were Adobe, I would publicly announce one last effort to work with Apple. Completely beg publicly and explain their side of the story. Explain how Apple views Adobe as a threat, and Steve Jobs is destroying an entire Internet standard with his madness.

This whole thing wouldn't be 1% as bad if Steve Jobs came out and said, Adobe is our competition so we're not going to work with them in any way, shape, or form. I could at least respect Jobs for that statement. The current BS is all how terrible Adobe and Flash are. Steve even said the iPad would only get an hour with Flash enabled... that's the biggest lie I have ever herd that man say. Adobe has begged and pleaded to work on the iPhone OS, and they could do the exact same thing as html5 if Jobs didn't perceive them as a threat.

The problem is Jobs offers no real solution for viewing all of the Internet that has Flash embedded in it not just for ads, but also for entire websites, video viewing, navigation, cool graphics and etc. We're not just talking some banner ads that are poorly written, without Flash it's impossible to navigate the entire web. This is sickening and madness.

Steve, why not just be honest as Adobe is being right now??? We will all at least respect you if you stop publicly lying and bashing Adobe when the truth isn't the software, it's the competitiveness against Apple's business model of selling apps (now with ads in them), selling video content (vs watching free via ad based sites like Hulu.com), and even selling web content where people have to pay for every bit of content on the iPad (much of which is free on a REAL computer).

 

[*LTD*]

Apple is in leadership position, folks.

Be happy. This time around, unlike with the stumbling and bumbling Microsoft juggernaut, we'll actually get great products.