Adobe Announces New Creative Cloud Apps, Abandons Creative Suite

[LethalWolfe]

True perhaps, but not what I said at all. Update = free. Upgrade = paid.

Nothing is stopping Adobe from moving each individual app to its own paid upgrade cycle, and then individually offering that app as a paid upgrade in addition to the cloud thing. Saying that moving the platform to cloud only will help the innovation is marketing BS. An app that you subscribe to monthly and then download the binary for can also be offered as a pay-once, download-once app.

If Adobe did away with the CS bundles and went CC and individual apps only there would still be an up roar, IMO. Stand alone AE is like about $1,000, Photoshop is $700, PPro is $800 I think. People would scream that Adobe is pretty much forcing them to go with CC because the prices of the individual apps are so high.

I still think there would be problems with doing away with traditional upgrade cycles for people with perpetual licenses. Right now it's pretty standard. The apps are updated say every 18 months, the retail price is A and the upgrade price is B. If you get rid of that structure how do you figure out how to price the upgrades? Large, version upgrades would likely still happen so then you'd need a tiered pricing plan so that people that bought the upgrade packages would pay less than people that did not.

I think it would lead customer confusion and logistical issues for Adobe. I wouldn't be surprised if streamlining their product line up was a prime motivator for creating the CS bundles.

Does nobody read? thats why I said multiple backups.

I don't consider making multiple backups (which is what you said) and periodically migrating all your files to modern storage and modern file formats as being one in the same. If that's what you meant then I agree pretty much w/that you said.

 

[thekev]

Version 1 came out 23 years ago.

23 years x 12 months x $50 = $13,800.00

$13,800 < $15,600 Math! It's easy.

Your math isn't terribly accurate. Versions come out every 1.5-2 years. The old policy allowed for upgrades up to 3 versions back, and it was extremely common to skip over buggy or weak releases. The thing I find objectionable here is that you've tried to appear insightful through excessively poor reasoning.

I'm still of the opinion that these things are still in a testing phase and Adobe will update its policies to something somewhat palatable for the majority of their customers.

 

[Badagri]

I don't consider making multiple backups (which is what you said) and periodically migrating all your files to modern storage and modern file formats as being one in the same. If that's what you meant then I agree pretty much w/that you said.

It's good practice to back up your backup. You never know when that clickety click is going to hit or the slow deaths. That and the fact for quick backing up I use thumb drives since the files are constantly changing. Per day I mean. I store them when nothing else needs to be modified greatly.

 

[cheesymogul]

It is very simple: I don't trust that Adobe will still be around in 10 years, nor the global financial system as we know it…
But my CS6 will still be working after the Creative Cloud is vaporised to nothing and I can still afford it, should the Euro zone fall apart (unfortunately a rather realistic scenario) and the Greater Global Depression break out, because I already OWN my software.

Having observed Adobe's update history first hand since 1994, I simply do not believe that Adobe will put much more effort in updating and innovating their stuff after they got the subscriber masses hooked and subordinated to their leasing model.
Why should they? Their steady flow of income is now secured with their monopoly even expanded. A few minor cosmetic changes now and then just to keep face will do.
Even if the small business and consumer will flee in hordes, Adobe just has to distribute the loss to their remaing clientel by raising subscription prices. Large firms don't care if a work station costs $50 or $100 more per month. Then they even have a plausible reason to charge their clients $10 more per work hour.

I was usually jumping 2-4 versions and rarely found major additions after upgrading.
The best graphic designers I know, mostly work with several year old software, while the people who desperately need the newest versions more often than not are just plain hacks who are trying to compensate their lack of talent and taste with an overkill of useless effects and gimmickry...
When I was freelancing for smaller advertising agencies (and this was before the recession) I was always surprised how ancient their Macs and software were, while still easily handling multi-million advertising budgets.

 

[SimeoneSergio]

I'm surprised to see that "pros" here don't upgrade such programs let's say every 18 months, when they should be doing it every 12 months imho...

The Market (aka your clients) will always push for improvements and demand more and more day after day, and you need to have the right tools to "counter" such situations.

To me, subscription based and i can use EVERYTHING is a huuuuuuge plus. I couldn't afford buying photoshop back in the days, and for the stuff i did i had to use PS, AI, ID, DW, FL and a little of AE/PR.
When i saw the announcement for creative cloud i was more than happy.

And hey: along with the subscription there is a 20gb cloud hosting plan (that you can use instead of dropbox, cheers) plus many other features that are more than welcome.

I really can't understand why you complain about this.

 

[fa8362]

I'm surprised to see that "pros" here don't upgrade such programs let's say every 18 months, when they should be doing it every 12 months imho...

The Market (aka your clients) will always push for improvements and demand more and more day after day, and you need to have the right tools to "counter" such situations.

Plenty of pros are still using CS4 and CS5 with great success. You're either naive, or you work for Adobe.

 

[fivedots]

Plenty of pros are still using CS4 and CS5 with great success. You're either naive, or you work for Adobe.

Agreed. These are mature products receiving small, incremental improvements.

 

[handsome pete]

I'm surprised to see that "pros" here don't upgrade such programs let's say every 18 months, when they should be doing it every 12 months imho...

The Market (aka your clients) will always push for improvements and demand more and more day after day, and you need to have the right tools to "counter" such situations.

To me, subscription based and i can use EVERYTHING is a huuuuuuge plus. I couldn't afford buying photoshop back in the days, and for the stuff i did i had to use PS, AI, ID, DW, FL and a little of AE/PR.
When i saw the announcement for creative cloud i was more than happy.

And hey: along with the subscription there is a 20gb cloud hosting plan (that you can use instead of dropbox, cheers) plus many other features that are more than welcome.

I really can't understand why you complain about this.

I think it's a bit ignorant to think everyone's workflow/demands/etc. are similar. That's the implication when you state how it works for you so you can't understand the complaints. It's also a bit insulting when you put the word pro in quotes to suggest that the people you are referring to are not actually professionals. If that wasn't the intent, then I apologize.

But it's awfully presumptuous to think users should be upgrading every time there's an update. You either haven't kept up with the Adobe upgrade details over the years or you just don't know many other people who use this software. Upgrade cycles are different for everyone and it's very common for someone to skip over a version because it simply doesn't offer enough to make the cost worthwhile. I know individuals and large companies that are still working with CS3-5.5. Us "pros" can recognize when certain new features/improvements will end up benefiting our workflow.

I actually don't think the subscription cost is a bad value either even though, yes, it does end up costing more in the long run (ignoring the 3-5 year price comparisons the defenders keep trotting out). But I personally don't need the entire Master Collection. I doubt many do. That's why products like the Production Premium package were enticing. It offered the programs I needed to use most. Now I don't have a choice in the matter. It's either Master Collection or a couple individual programs. And of course there's the fact that you never really own anything at any point with this renting model.

So in the end, there are many reasons why this new subscription model either works or doesn't work for everyone. The benefits are outweighed by the negatives in my case. Just don't assume what works for some should work for everyone.

 

[m00min]

I'm surprised to see that "pros" here don't upgrade such programs let's say every 18 months, when they should be doing it every 12 months imho...

The Market (aka your clients) will always push for improvements and demand more and more day after day, and you need to have the right tools to "counter" such situations.

People hire me for my design / development skill, not for the apps I happen to use. If Adobe add nothing compelling to Photoshop or Illustrator for me to consider it worthwhile to upgrade I won't. This won't be true of all use cases for Adobe apps but it's certainly true for me.

To me, subscription based and i can use EVERYTHING is a huuuuuuge plus. I couldn't afford buying photoshop back in the days, and for the stuff i did i had to use PS, AI, ID, DW, FL and a little of AE/PR.
When i saw the announcement for creative cloud i was more than happy.

I just don't buy this argument that it's soooo useful to have all the apps available. Does the graphic designer need Dreamweaver? Or the web designer need Premier or After Effects. It's a waste to pay for stuff you don't need. Given some of the crap turned out in Dreamweaver by print designers I'd rather that they didn't have access to 'play'.

And hey: along with the subscription there is a 20gb cloud hosting plan (that you can use instead of dropbox, cheers) plus many other features that are more than welcome.

I really can't understand why you complain about this.

I'd rather pay Dropbox for cloud storage, given that that's all they do they're likely to put more work into making it better. Adobe's cloud storage is just a side project for them, I certainly wouldn't trust it with my work.

 

[SimeoneSergio]

I'd rather pay Dropbox for cloud storage, given that that's all they do they're likely to put more work into making it better. Adobe's cloud storage is just a side project for them, I certainly wouldn't trust it with my work.

Then go on with Dropbox and never discover the quality of the creative cloud storage. What else can you be told?

 

[LethalWolfe]

It's good practice to back up your backup. You never know when that clickety click is going to hit or the slow deaths. That and the fact for quick backing up I use thumb drives since the files are constantly changing. Per day I mean. I store them when nothing else needs to be modified greatly.

Yeah, I definitely backup my backups.

 

[m00min]

Then go on with Dropbox and never discover the quality of the creative cloud storage. What else can you be told?

LOL. Just LOL.

 

[SimeoneSergio]

Plenty of pros are still using CS4 and CS5 with great success. You're either naive, or you work for Adobe.

Haters are gonna hate. Take a wild guess. None of the above.

Anyway i'm sorry it doesn't fit you guys here... I'm really fine with it.
But being honest i don't see the need to work with CS4 when CS6 is out. But that might be me.

Peace

 

[cheesymogul]

The Market (aka your clients) will always push for improvements and demand more and more day after day, and you need to have the right tools to "counter" such situations.

My clients are just perfectly happy with a smart concept, creative ideas and tasteful designs. Since most of them have been loyal for years, I guess I must have been on the right track...
These people don't give a rat's ass about which Adobe version or what kind of software brand, not even the platform I use. They are just interested in good results.

I couldn't keep any one of my clients just with technical gimmickry, if the basic concept would miss their target audience.

The same with video. More often than not you see effect-laden crap, but it is obvious that the editor has absolutely no clue how to tie together a decent story line, nor has he any sense of rhythm or the basics of film language.

Often the brightest ideas and designs are the most straightforward, minimalistic and simple.
Why do people love Jony Ives' design so much, while hating the baroque "design" of brands like Acer?
True style means simplicity! And the last thing simplicity requires is fancy tools...

 

[cheesymogul]

Given some of the crap turned out in Dreamweaver by print designers I'd rather that they didn't have access to 'play'.

This is so true!
Also the other way round. When web programmers start to create logos or even ad campaigns, you better run for your life!

That's why I'm always honest with my clients about my limitations, when they ask me to do their web designs.
If they just need a few simple pages with some information about their services or products, then I can handle it.
For anything server-based or otherwise technically sophisticated, I work hand in hand with real programmers who know their stuff, while I'm just creating the look.

Just like Dirty Harry said: "A man got to know his limitations..."

 

[rdthompson]

Okay, so I don't care if prices go up. That has been a part of life and always will be. I don't care if it needs to phone home once a month as I have internet.

The forced leasing without an option to buy should have everyone concerned. What if every company went to this option in the near future? What if you could no longer buy a car? Stop paying and they take it away.

For the people who think this is a great idea; They are entitled to living their life however they want. No disrespect, however I would like to see their reaction if every company went to a lease only option.

Imagine leasing your computer, your bed, your microwave, your house. Every month you have to pay. You no longer have the freedom to spend money when you have it. Some months are good financially and some months are bad. Maybe you want to use all your earnings for a month to go on vacation. You decide not to buy anything that month. Those freedoms are drying up if this is the future.

What if the companies excuse is that it is cheaper payments than buying? Or that now they will deliver firmware updates directly to your cars CPU? Or the excuse that every other company is doing it? Does it mean we should accept never owning anything again? How could this not be disturbing to every consumer?

If we do not stand against this business model then I fear what we will be forced to lease in the future. I never had a beef with Adobe. I loved them for photoshop, but now I have a major resentment.

 

[m00min]

This is so true!
Also the other way round. When web programmers start to create logos or even ad campaigns, you better run for your life!

That's why I'm always honest with my clients about my limitations, when they ask me to do their web designs.
If they just need a few simple pages with some information about their services or products, then I can handle it.
For anything server-based or otherwise technically sophisticated, I work hand in hand with real programmers who know their stuff, while I'm just creating the look.

Just like Dirty Harry said: "A man got to know his limitations..."

Hehe, yes. If someone asks me if I can design their company brochure I always tell them that I only know enough about print to know that I don't know enough.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Okay, so I don't care if prices go up. That has been a part of life and always will be. I don't care if it needs to phone home once a month as I have internet.

The forced leasing without an option to buy should have everyone concerned. What if every company went to this option in the near future? What if you could no longer buy a car? Stop paying and they take it away.

For the people who think this is a great idea; They are entitled to living their life however they want. No disrespect, however I would like to see their reaction if every company went to a lease only option.

Imagine leasing your computer, your bed, your microwave, your house. Every month you have to pay. You no longer have the freedom to spend money when you have it. Some months are good financially and some months are bad. Maybe you want to use all your earnings for a month to go on vacation. You decide not to buy anything that month. Those freedoms are drying up if this is the future.

What if the companies excuse is that it is cheaper payments than buying? Or that now they will deliver firmware updates directly to your cars CPU? Or the excuse that every other company is doing it? Does it mean we should accept never owning anything again? How could this not be disturbing to every consumer?

If we do not stand against this business model then I fear what we will be forced to lease in the future. I never had a beef with Adobe. I loved them for photoshop, but now I have a major resentment.

Would I want to lease my bed or microwave? No. Why? Because those things don't make me any money. If I decided to go with CC it will be in part because the $600/yr I spend on it will be a tiny fraction of my earnings from using the software.

Right now I'm sitting in a rented chair using a rented computer on a rented desk inside rented office space. Why? Because the production company I currently work for has deemed that it's in it's best financial interests to rent these things as needed instead of buying them.

 

[tekboi]

600 dollars per years?!?!?

NOT EVERYBODY makes a fortune from photoshop. The latest thing I created for someone (a logo) made $35. The whole "cloud" movement is just a mess.

 

[pundit]

Wait, how much is this going to cost?

For the full master suite, you have to prepay $50 a month for a full year, so $600 a year. (existing CS users get a discount, but only for the first year,) and Adobe can raise that subscription cost at will

If you want a single app, say PS, you prepay $20 a month (again for a full year,) so $240 a year (again with the proviso that Adobe can raise that whenever they want.)

If you want a true monthly subscription for CC thats $75 a month, or $900 a year (and that can go up too.)

 

[calaverasgrande]

No doubt you're right- large companies (and governments) mostly lease their auto fleets- but they also have enormous amounts of revenue and can afford to pay significantly more for leasing over time just to avoid the paperwork and maintenance headaches. Owning a fleet of automobiles with fuel, maintenance, parts and insurance issues is alot more complicated than owning a bunch of seats of computer software.

Plus, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of users of Adobe software (and almost everyone involved in this discussion here) don't own 100 million dollar companies.

I don't own a 100 million dollar company. But I am the IT manager for a division of a multi-billion dollar company. Our little corner of the pie is easily over 100 million. You should see the budget outlay for this years upgrades.

We are currently looking into purchasing a bunch of CS6 seats while we still can find copies on the shelves. We simply do not want to deal with punching holes in multiple firewalls (inside and outside of production) simply to comply with licensing. We had a heck of a time with Office 2010 and Win 7 for that reason. Even with volume licensing they still have to holler back to the mothership (or a KMS which hollers back to the mothership).
I wonder if Adobe will provide a KMS type implementation for large enterprise users such as us? I am pretty sure in the wide world of our company, across all business units we are using thousands of seats of Adobe.

 

[LethalWolfe]

We are currently looking into purchasing a bunch of CS6 seats while we still can find copies on the shelves.

Assuming you were speaking figuratively, finding copies of CS6 should be pretty easy as Adobe plans to sell it indefinitely (it will get security fixes just no feature upgrades).

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

No offense, but that's not a good way to run a business. You don't use the software only if you have customers. Using software isn't limited to customer work. People do learn how to do new things with their software. So by your view if you have no customers you don't rent the apps, you don't better yourself.

So I "better myself" using Photoshop in my spare time at my business locale? Sorry, but if I'm running a business I probably don't have time during the work day to just sit around and play with Photoshop if there's no client that needs something done that requires it. And frankly, if we're talking about my spare time, I can name plenty of things I could be doing to "better myself" than putting fake mustaches on family photos or whatever.

(Although if I have to pay for it every month whether i use it or not, I guess I would be more inclined to play...er...better myself with Photoshop even if it is a total waste of time. As it is, I only use Photoshop CS3 when I need to and frankly, I see no need to update it what-so-ever. Every function I use is already in it. Too bad for those that won't be able to buy a copy at some point. Photoshop probably lasts most of us a decade or more before we need a new version. But I guess this will be the last version I ever use since I refuse to pay monthly "rent" rates for software. Screw Adobe.

 

[LethalWolfe]

So I "better myself" using Photoshop in my spare time at my business locale? Sorry, but if I'm running a business I probably don't have time during the work day to just sit around and play with Photoshop if there's no client that needs something done that requires it. And frankly, if we're talking about my spare time, I can name plenty of things I could be doing to "better myself" than putting fake mustaches on family photos or whatever.

IMO professional development is part of running a business. Learning new applications (or taking time to become more adept at the apps I use frequently) is all part of the process. It's like practice (both in season and off season) for pro athletes. Game day is the culmination of your previous efforts, not the only time you put forth any effort.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

IMO professional development is part of running a business. Learning new applications (or taking time to become more adept at the apps I use frequently) is all part of the process. It's like practice (both in season and off season) for pro athletes. Game day is the culmination of your previous efforts, not the only time you put forth any effort.

You obviously don't get what I'm saying at all. This person said they don't have to pay for Photoshop when clients don't need it for a given month. They did NOT say they didn't know how to use Photoshop. For example, I already know how to use Photoshop! Using it for "fun" is not a betterment issue when you already have the skill. It's just a flipping WASTE OF MY TIME when I could be reading books or whatever on something I don't know how to do or doing creative writing or working on my next album, whatever. In other words, just because you buy a utility app like a Spreadsheet for your business, that doesn't mean you need to spend your free time using it just to use it. Spending time with one's children, for example, would be a much better use of your time on earth than playing around with a Spreadsheet to learn every esoteric function you'd never actually need or use.