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blackmoses

macrumors member
Mar 10, 2009
33
2
Enjoy whatever new features Adobe deigns to deliver on this latest update, because that's all folks!

With CC, Adobe will have a captive audience and no significant competition. So they can fire most of their programmers, with the few who remain concentrating on bug fixes and minor tweaks to keep up with new OS releases from Apple and Microsoft. All while pocketing the money for a major upgrade from ALL CC users every year forever and ever, amen.

It's how Adobe's done business in the past. When graced with a similar situation (killing FreeHand, Adobe Illustrator's only serious competitor), Adobe stopped improving AI, merely adding cosmetic changes to make it even more bloated.

Adobe's selling Creative Cloud with the exact opposite promise: they plan more frequent updates not tied to a release schedule.

And surely you're not implying that Illustrator has only undergone "cosmetic changes" in 8 years' time. For starters, it became a 64-bit application with CS6, never mind useful things I actually use that have been added, like multiple art boards, better gradient tools, and better bitmap tracing.

----------

People keep saying that the app will be downloaded onto your computer and a phone home will be done occasionally...

That may be how it works now, but who says that future versions (including CS7) won't entirely be web based...

Far fetched? Not as much as you think. It allows Adobe to cut down from making a Mac and Windows version to solely making a web version.

You have to think that Adobe are doing this to cut costs and increase revenue. The quickest way to cut costs is to reduce the number of versions you produce.

Adobe may (and does) feature some web-based software, but most of the Creative Suite is too processor and disk-space usage intensive to run as web-only software given the current state of tech. Maybe in ten years.
 

blackmoses

macrumors member
Mar 10, 2009
33
2
Agreed. These are mature products receiving small, incremental improvements.

Premiere is not a mature product. I have a good list of feature requests I am submitting.

And all of the rest, while they do indeed work, could use some improvements as well, big and small.
 

Badagri

macrumors 6502a
Aug 9, 2012
500
78
UK
Think about this. If Adobe's new scheme is successful with their subscriptions, other companies will obviously take notice and start implementing it also. Pretty soon, many of the programs and software that we use will only be subscription-based. We would be renting everything.

Take your stand now, and don't give in to this money grab by Adobe.

They wont. The people that will, will be a minority. The rest will just be sheep and because everyone else does it they feel left out and will all be signing up.
 

IGregory

macrumors 6502a
Aug 5, 2012
669
6
They wont. The people that will, will be a minority. The rest will just be sheep and because everyone else does it they feel left out and will all be signing up.

Yes, but isn't that the nature of things, staying in one's comfort zone? Innovators lead, successful models encourages others to adopt what works best. Think of the cost savings for businesses who have their services subscription base. No need to develop both a Mac and Windows client base product.
 

Middleman-77

macrumors regular
Nov 29, 2012
139
61
Please join our Facebook group!

As loyal users we can still do something about what Adobe has done. Because it leaves us NO choice as to upgrade options for the foreseeable future EXCEPT via CC (because all perpetual license developments have stopped), the things we can do is a) boycott their software (so it leaves them out of pocket), b) petition their staff and shareholders, and c) ask for government intervention into their financial affairs.

If as a user or company you are a disgruntled about Adobe's attrocious pricing policy and software development please join the group 'Stop Adobe From Forcing Creative Cloud On Creatives' http://www.facebook.com/StopAdobeCC?fref=ts. Sign the petition, help spread the word, and get your voice heard!
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
4,037
65
Plymouth, MN
They wont. The people that will, will be a minority. The rest will just be sheep and because everyone else does it they feel left out and will all be signing up.

Or how many will want to do something but cannot since they simply cannot operate without Adobe since they have no real competition for some of their products.


LoL!? really?

Sure. Why not? It took a lawsuit to start anti-trust actions against Microsoft.
 

Badagri

macrumors 6502a
Aug 9, 2012
500
78
UK
Or how many will want to do something but cannot since they simply cannot operate without Adobe since they have no real competition for some of their products.

I'm there just like most here.

Sure. Why not? It took a lawsuit to start anti-trust actions against Microsoft.

That took many years and it was to allow other browsers giving the choice on a new install. It took a very long time for all that to filter through.
 

chirpie

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2010
646
183
Then don't update. Crikey there is some serious FUD in this discussion.

...

That was my point in asking the question of hardware that can no longer run the latest software. You're paying for something you aren't able to take advantage of. I'm well aware the answer is "then don't upgrade." This isn't FUD, this is people telling you why they don't like it.



If you're a keen amateur, use pixelmator, if you're a professional, this is insignificant small change and a massive aid to your cash flow.

Horse pocky. My company has held onto CS4 and won't be upgrading most computers until they have no choice, because there are workflow plug-ins (Like Censhare) that tie us to older software. Sure, we have CS5.5 and CS6 on a couple machines, but the majority can't be upgraded.

A paid subscription would bleed money on us in a way paid software licenses do not.

And for what it's worth, talking to the Deans and IT heads at the colleges in my area, they are all highly suspect of subscription only models. Flat fee contracts for software seats make their long term budgets more predictable. Lest we forget, Adobe can change that monthly fee on a whim, whereas a purchased license is a purchased license and is a done deal.


I don't have anything against subscription models, as they make sense for some situations, but they should allow their uses the choice.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
Sure. Why not? It took a lawsuit to start anti-trust actions against Microsoft.

You can't compare Adobe to MS in this situation, as their monopoly isn't a monopoly by the strict legal definition of the term.

As far as I know, Adobe's never done anything that could be construed as an attempt at using their clout to gain a monopoly. They're not doing anything to curtail competition, nor are they trying to corner the market in any way whatsoever.

Adobe simply has a set of software that has no direct competition. They have the best, they spent their time making it, and they have the right to charge whatever they want for us to use it. We don't have to like what they do, but we also don't have to buy what they're offering. There are still plenty of alternatives we can choose from. Just because none of them are quite as good as what Adobe's offering isn't their fault.
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,370
124
Los Angeles
Sure. Why not? It took a lawsuit to start anti-trust actions against Microsoft.

Monopolies are not inherently illegal in the U.S. It's pretty much how a company acts that determines if they are an illegal monopoly or not. For example, MS went to OEM computer makers (Dell, HP, Gateway, etc.,) and basically said, "Do what we tell you to do or else" and made sure competing software was either not pre-installed at all or buried in the folder structure while MS software was prominently placed on the desktop and/or task bar.

To the best of my knowledge Adobe has not done anything similar to that. Just because a company makes the most popular product and secures market dominance doesn't mean said company has an illegal monopoly.
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
4,037
65
Plymouth, MN
You can't compare Adobe to MS in this situation, as their monopoly isn't a monopoly by the strict legal definition of the term.

To the best of my knowledge Adobe has not done anything similar to that. Just because a company makes the most popular product and secures market dominance doesn't mean said company has an illegal monopoly.

I am not claiming in any way shape or form that Adobe is a monopoly. I was just arguing against the idea that nobody would sue Adobe. My only comparison was that both companies were big and powerful and ticked off a lot of consumers.

I don't argue that going after Adobe would be very tough to do, but it isn't an impossibility. Badagri simply expressed disbelief about government intervention. I was simply saying that its not unprecedented to go after a company that carries a big stick like MS did.

To be clear, I am in no way shape or form saying that Adobe is a Monopoly by any legal definition. That doesn't mean that you cannot sue them or that they can be investigated or anything.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
To be clear, I am in no way shape or form saying that Adobe is a Monopoly by any legal definition. That doesn't mean that you cannot sue them or that they can be investigated or anything.

You could sue them possibly, but what would they be investigated for? The subscription only move by be crappy to some (or most), but it's not seedy in any way, nor is it illegal.

As long as they're not absolutely gouging the everliving crap out of their customers, they can do what they want. $600 a year to use their entire software suite isn't that high of a price for a professional studio to pay (which is their main demographic). They will pay more in the long run, but considering that includes more frequent updates and bug fixes for the price, that might be considered a good trade off for the higher cost over time.

If you don't like it, your only choice is to vote with your wallet, and hope others do the same. Either that, or move to Pixelmator and other Adobe similar programs like I'm considering.
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
4,037
65
Plymouth, MN
You could sue them possibly, but what would they be investigated for? The subscription only move by be crappy to some (or most), but it's not seedy in any way, nor is it illegal.

I honestly don't know. You would have to ask a legal expert, but you can never predict the actions of the government. I personally think that such action is unlikely but I wouldn't consider it impossible.

If you don't like it, your only choice is to vote with your wallet, and hope others do the same. Either that, or move to Pixelmator and other Adobe similar programs like I'm considering.
I am not Adobe's audience here so this doesn't affect me, but in many cases and with many products for many people, there aren't any other products that you can compete with Adobe here. I like Pixelmator but as many people point out, it is a long way from competing with Photoshop. Adobe's products are inherently very difficult to compete against and in some cases the only products out there are not viable replacements. In some cases voting with your wallet might as well just burn the wallet.

What really scares me is that any company that want's to compete is still a decade behind probably and in that time Adobe still holds all the cards - they have an existing loyal fan base that will guarantee survival. That worries me that a company is that strong and powerful.
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,370
124
Los Angeles
I was simply saying that its not unprecedented to go after a company that carries a big stick like MS did.

That's the point though, Adobe doesn't have a big stick like MS. Adobe's stick is significantly smaller and they aren't using it to beat people over the head.


What really scares me is that any company that want's to compete is still a decade behind probably and in that time Adobe still holds all the cards - they have an existing loyal fan base that will guarantee survival. That worries me that a company is that strong and powerful.

Adobe isn't anywhere near as prevalent nor powerful as MS (especially mid- 90's MS). Outside of it's relatively small niche Adobe doesn't have much influence. If you are worried about Adobe you should be down right terrified of companies like Apple, MS, Google, Comcast, Viacom, TimeWarner, AT&T, etc.,. Adobe just wants to sell software solutions to the professional creative industry. Those other companies want to control the access to, and creation & dissemination of, information. Much bigger stakes, IMO.
 

cheesymogul

macrumors regular
Sep 14, 2008
213
0
That's the point though, Adobe doesn't have a big stick like MS. Adobe's stick is significantly smaller and they aren't using it to beat people over the head.


Adobe isn't anywhere near as prevalent nor powerful as MS (especially mid- 90's MS). Outside of it's relatively small niche Adobe doesn't have much influence. If you are worried about Adobe you should be down right terrified of companies like Apple, MS, Google, Comcast, Viacom, TimeWarner, AT&T, etc.,. Adobe just wants to sell software solutions to the professional creative industry. Those other companies want to control the access to, and creation & dissemination of, information. Much bigger stakes, IMO.

It highly depends in which field you are earning your money. Personally I never felt the M$ beating stick, because the only product I ever bought from them was an OEM copy of XP installed with WMware Fusion. It was for the sole purpose of checking out how my web designs were working with IE. I also never had to buy Office my whole life, because my job simply was never dependent on it.

As a graphic designer and Mac user my work solely relies on access to products, tools and services from Apple and Adobe, plus of course Google's search engine.
Telecommunication companies are less of a problem in my country. There are already strong anti-monopoly laws in place and takeovers of competitors have been successfully prevented by this.

I'm not so sure that Adobe won't sooner or later be running into a major problem in Europe...
Microsoft and Apple both already have. M$ only for the minor offense of installing the free IE automatically with their OS. Something Apple only gets away with because they have no monopolist position with their OS.

But in the global publishing and print industry Adobe has probably more power than Apple and Microsoft, and dominates the market even more than M$ ever dominated the desktop OS market.
If somehow the Acrobat backbone technology would disappear over-night, no newspaper, no magazine and not many other printed products could be produced across the world for months! Digital print would die overnight!
Just imagine all the white boxes with food at your local Safeway and the resulting confusion ;)

Certainly Adobe's dominance is much less prominent with internet and video media. These are also the areas where work-arounds for disgruntled Adobe customers are possible.
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,370
124
Los Angeles
It highly depends in which field you are earning your money.

I was talking in overal scope. When Windows had something like 97% of the OS market share and MS was dictating terms to OEM computer makers, that was huge. According to CNET Adobe has an installed user base of about 13 million. Windows installed user base is estimated to be over 1 billion. Apple sells 10's of millions of iPhones a quarter.

Adobe is a big fish in a small pond while MS was arguably, for a time, the biggest fish in the biggest pond. Working as an editor, AE and PS are pretty much ubiquitous no matter what job I'm on yet I know that I'm a small niche within the niche of video editing which itself is tiny compared to the number of computer users as a whole. Relative to it's user base Adobe may be as influential as MS but it absolute terms MS is much more powerful.

If somehow the Acrobat backbone technology would disappear over-night, no newspaper, no magazine and not many other printed products could be produced across the world for months! Digital print would die overnight!

I would imagine that if somehow all MS and/or Apple operating systems stopping working overnight it would be a much, much bigger problem. ;)
 

cool11

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2006
1,779
220
I think it is in our hands, with our choice, to show to adobe and any other similar company, which future we prefer, regarding software purchasing.
 

calaverasgrande

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2010
1,291
161
Brooklyn, New York.
... Adobe just wants to sell software solutions to the professional creative industry...
I don't think most people realize how much Acrobat is used.
There are huge swaths of totally boring job positions that have nothing remotely creative about them. And they use Acrobat Pro every single day.
Forms, secure documents, document interchange etc.
Doesn't look like Adobe has gone subscription on Acrobat yet, but man when they do. Yikes.
 

mowenwanders

macrumors newbie
May 15, 2013
1
0
If the market will speak intelligently...

This will only work if people play along by signing up.

Boycott this disgusting scheme or get used to paying for everything without owning anything.
 

Untitled-1961

macrumors newbie
May 20, 2013
9
0
London
,. Adobe just wants to sell software solutions to the professional creative industry.

That's not quite true is it?.- If it were, I would have waited till CS7 or CS8 before upgrading from CS5. As it is, I bought an upgrade to CS6 last week because as far as I know, it is to be the last version of Photoshop that I will ever be able to buy.

Adobe does not want us to buy their software anymore. They want to control our access to it by renting out the use of the software. That way, instead of the customer deciding which upgrades are worthwhile spending our money on. They get to continually take our money while providing whatever they see fit to provide. Withdrawing access to important tools, if for any reason we are unable to meet the rental payments.

You see, I'm not the 'professional creative industry', I'm a professional creative individual, who sometimes gets paid very late by the 'professional creative industry'. Which means I have a variable income. Which is why, when I have the money I replenish and update my tools. I expect them always at hand when I need them, not to have them snatched away due to unplanned dips in my income when I need them most.

This outrageous move by Adobe to restrict access to industry standard software, will hurt a great many artists and freelancers on variable income. It's nothing short of a contemptuous breach of trust with long time PS users.
 
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