Apple Releases iTunes 5

[BWhaler]

Actually, I've also been waiting for this feature from day one. It's something that Apple could fix really easily. A surprising number of albums "flow" from one song to another and the fading is inadequate for this. The Join Tracks feature is no use.

Agreed, but my point was really to the amount of anger in the prior post. It was disproportional to the fact that we are talking about functionality of a digital juke box.

 

[DavidLeblond]

I found a program called Safaricon that did the trick. But there are some errors with the hack - activated tabs appear a little strange, with that dotted line on top. Does it look the same for you?

Yeah the tabs look funky on mine too. But its better than all that brushed metal!

 

[polyesterlester]

I guess you haven't seen the search bar yet. Edit Show Search Bar. It allows you to search videos and booklets separate from podcasts, audiobooks and music.

B

I think he's talking about music videos in the music store.

 

[killmoms]

All of you people bitching about gapless playback realize that true gapless on either MP3 or AAC is a hack, right? Both formats have fixed frame-lengths, whereas CDs do not. This means if a track doesn't completely fill up the last MP3 or AAC frame, silence is appended to fill it. The only way around this is either:

a) Take a bit of the next track and put in that blank spot (or kick part of that frame over to the next track, whichever makes sense based on how much of the frame is filled)
b) Note exactly where the actual audio data stops in some tag of some sort and pass that information on to the player

In the first case, you're re-arranging things, and in the second, you're doing something non-standard, so you can't guarantee that the same method is used in any other encoder. And there's several technical reasons, at least for MP3, why detecting "on the fly" is very difficult (which go right over my head, as I'm no audio compression engineer to say the least).

So even if you have a gapless player, unless your files have been ripped with an encoder that's doing either of the above (and in the second case, your player supports that method), you're going to get a bit of silence. The ONLY way to get around this is to use a format with no fixed frame length, like OGG, FLAC, ALAC, AIFF, or WAV (IIRC).

 

[Scooby_Doo]

Lacking division

Ugly interface in that it lacks real definition between the different areas of Playlists, Artists, Browse... That one black line to the right of the Playlists is particularly frustrating.

Also is the green iTunes icon now a brand in itself? Does anyone remember when Apple use to change the icon with major revisions... blue and purple in the past... Why couldn't we have red, orange, deeper green??

 

[zedwards]

sigh...i thought maybe the iTunes icon would change from green. I like it and all, but didn't it change colors for every other MAJOR update?

Good observation! I want blue back.

 

[polyesterlester]

All of you people bitching about gapless playback realize that true gapless on either MP3 or AAC is a hack, right? Both formats have fixed frame-lengths, whereas CDs do not. This means if a track doesn't completely fill up the last MP3 or AAC frame, silence is appended to fill it. The only way around this is either:

a) Take a bit of the next track and put in that blank spot (or kick part of that frame over to the next track, whichever makes sense based on how much of the frame is filled)
b) Note exactly where the actual audio data stops in some tag of some sort and pass that information on to the player

In the first case, you're re-arranging things, and in the second, you're doing something non-standard, so you can't guarantee that the same method is used in any other encoder.

So even if you have a gapless player, unless your files have been ripped with an encoder that's doing either of the above (and in the second case, your player supports that method), you're going to get a bit of silence. The ONLY way to get around this is to use a format with no fixed frame length, like OGG, FLAC, ALAC, AIFF, or WAV (IIRC).

Yeah, but many of Apple's apps – as well as many others – have a feature called a 'checkbox'. I'm sure that could be taken advantage of in this situation, perhaps in the 'Import' portion of the 'Advanced' preference pane.

Sorry, I'm running off of two days with no sleep and can get kinda smart alecky.

 

[MarkCollette]

I disagree completely. First, I don't want to waste double the disk space. There's no reason I should have to. Second, I want the freedom to skip a track in the middle of a gapless playback session if the urge suddenly strikes me. That doesn't usually happen, but I want that freedom, just like I have with any CD player. Finally, I want every time I listen to a song, gapless or not, to increment that song's play count and last-played time. This method will not do that, so it is unacceptable to me.

Like I've already said, the solution is easy. Apple has simply chosen to ignore it for no good reason.



Again, I completely disagree. You're suggesting that I go audiophile, which I see as absolutely ridiculous. Every method of listening to music has an inherent loss to it (CDs truncate audio to a "mere" 16 bits of precision at 44.1 kHz, vinyl -- which audiophiles love -- has a horribly worse signal to noise ratio than CD, etc), but my real experience is that iTunes/iPod are perfectly acceptable given decent (not high end - those are for suckers) speakers or headphones and a quiet environment. I care about listening the music, not spending $100k to gratify my ego that my "golden ears" will be satisfied with the quality of audio reproduction (you can guess that my opinion of audiophiles is a low one). And to me, removing the gaps between tracks is vastly more important than squeezing out some tiny extra amount of audio "quality" that no human ears can distinguish in the first place.

Like we often say about many Apple products, the appeal is in the overall experience. For me and my listening preferences, that includes:

• All of my ~5,000 songs at my fingertips
• Organizing my music into playlists, both manually and based on logical criteria (smart)
• Find based on song title, album, artist, and metadata quickly
• Good audio quality (not cheap, not over the top)
• Several shuffle options, including album, song, and playlist shuffling
• Seamless integration between my software jukebox and my portable device
• Update metadata such as play count, last played time, etc for any song that's played
• Play full albums without gaps between tracks
• Ability to skip tracks when doing any of the above

That's what does it for me. Give me a system that meets all of those, I'm in heaven. Force me to work around any of them or simply don't provide some of them, and I'm a cranky old bastard. iTunes/iPod gives me all but the last two (and the one above them, when speaking of gapless playback). If gapless had never been done before, I wouldn't care (and if so, nobody would ever release an album that required it, so it'd be a moot point). But since it's been done in a much simpler device over 20 years ago, such that much available music depends on it, I feel like I have a right to complain. What bothers me so much is I know it's not that difficult. They just don't care.

Of course, Apple has no obligation to listen. But I will continue to actively search for a replacement if they continue to ignore this request (I'm not the only one). The first company that gives me all of the above points will get my business. Unfortunately all of Apple's competitors fall short in some of the other areas, so I continue to wait.

For you, your solution may be just fine, and I'm happy that it works for you. For me, I will continue to wait for whoever wants to attract my business with a better product.

I totally understand your concerns. But, I'd like to point out that you've now spent more time typing about this issue then you will ever spend, in your entire lifetime, actually experiencing the gaps. Perspective.

 

[chabig]

Like I've already said, the solution is easy. Apple has simply chosen to ignore it for no good reason.

And you are an expert in digital signal processing and software design?

 

[swiftaw]

I disagree completely. First, I don't want to waste double the disk space. There's no reason I should have to. Second, I want the freedom to skip a track in the middle of a gapless playback session if the urge suddenly strikes me. That doesn't usually happen, but I want that freedom, just like I have with any CD player. Finally, I want every time I listen to a song, gapless or not, to increment that song's play count and last-played time. This method will not do that, so it is unacceptable to me.

Like I've already said, the solution is easy. Apple has simply chosen to ignore it for no good reason.

Just a thought, but I may have a potential solution, if someone wants to try it out and let me know if it works:

Apple provides a tool to add chapters to podcasts. Now, as a podcast is just an mp3 or aac file why wouldn't it be possible to rip an entire album as one track and then use the tool to break it into chapters. This may give you gapless playback AND allow you to jump to the next track if you desire.

As I said, just a thought, no idea if it would work but maybe worth a look. If anyone tries it, let me know if it works.

 

[wordmunger]

Update for older mac users

I now have BOTH airport and iTunes 5 running on my original clamshell iBook. So apparently the 500 MHz G3 requirement is not hard and fast.

EDIT: Dammit, it's not streaming over Airport express! This works on my G4 iBook, but not on the clamshell. Argh!

 

[shambolic]

"Skip when shuffling"

Ok, having ranted about Podcasts showing up in my Smart Playlists, I've found a feature that lessens the "hurt" for those of us who'd prefer things the way they were in 4.9.

Select a song, get Info (cmd-I), under Options there's a new checkbox, "Skip when shuffling". And for podcasts it turns out that this option has automatically been selected.

So even though Podcasts appear in the Smart Playlists, if the list is played on shuffle (as mine are 99% of the time) they can't get into the sequence of tracks that actually get played.

It's still a pain for Playlists like "Last 100 added", where 20 podcasts, even if they don't get played, means 20 less real songs in the list, so I've added a Genre restriction to my Smart Playlist definition anyway.

But overall, gorkonapple and feakbeat, please enjoy the new functionality and ignore my earlier complaint

 

[MacRy]

I totally understand your concerns. But, I'd like to point out that you've now spent more time typing about this issue then you will ever spend, in your entire lifetime, actually experiencing the gaps. Perspective.

That really made me laugh. I do feel for the poster you was responding to as he is obviously not happy with iTunes but your response is just too good

Remember that iTunes is free dude and if you go actively seeking another product from another company then that is your choice but it's not really going to harm Apple sales in any way. Think yourself lucky you've got it at all....my download currently says 8 hours 20 minutes until I get it

 

[narco]

The new search SUCKS

The new search blows, big time.

If I wanted to listen to Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited album, I'd go into my library and type "bob dy highway" and it'll show up. If I type that in iTunes 5, nothing shows up. I have to either type the artist name or the album name, and physically click "artist" or "album."

This is a step backwards in my opinion. Can you turn that search off?

Angry Fishes,
narco.

 

[thequicksilver]

It put all my podcast files into the library.

And here. I'm really not liking this - it's this exact trait from pre iTunes 4.9 which prevented me from getting into podcasts in the first place. Now they've undone it.

Incredibly and unbelievably frustrating.

 

[zedwards]

The new search blows, big time.

If I wanted to listen to Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited album, I'd go into my library and type "bob dy highway" and it'll show up. If I type that in iTunes 5, nothing shows up. I have to either type the artist name or the album name, and physically click "artist" or "album."

This is a step backwards in my opinion. Can you turn that search off?

Angry Fishes,
narco.

Yes you can: just don't type text into the search box.

 

[Diatribe]

The new search blows, big time.

If I wanted to listen to Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited album, I'd go into my library and type "bob dy highway" and it'll show up. If I type that in iTunes 5, nothing shows up. I have to either type the artist name or the album name, and physically click "artist" or "album."

This is a step backwards in my opinion. Can you turn that search off?

Angry Fishes,
narco.

Works fine for me.

 

[latergator116]

come someone confirm if this requires a restart?

You can always force-quit the installer after it has finished in order to avoid a restart.

 

[bankshot]

All of you people bitching about gapless playback realize that true gapless on either MP3 or AAC is a hack, right? Both formats have fixed frame-lengths, whereas CDs do not. This means if a track doesn't completely fill up the last MP3 or AAC frame, silence is appended to fill it. The only way around this is either:

Yup. This is indeed an issue, but it's not impossible (or even difficult) to overcome, as you suggest.

a) Take a bit of the next track and put in that blank spot (or kick part of that frame over to the next track, whichever makes sense based on how much of the frame is filled)
b) Note exactly where the actual audio data stops in some tag of some sort and pass that information on to the player

In the first case, you're re-arranging things, and in the second, you're doing something non-standard, so you can't guarantee that the same method is used in any other encoder.

Agreed, there are caveats with both methods. But since Apple is offering the total package - jukebox software + portable hardware player - they can ensure seamless compatibility. That's all I want. I don't care if Winamp doesn't understand their solution.

I would add to your suggestions more possibilities:

• Rip the entire CD as a single file, and embed a cuesheet to enable skipping among separate tracks. Track metadata on a per-song basis, so to the casual user, it looks as if nothing as changed.
• Analyze the song for the silence at the end of the last frame and skip it. I recall writing a simple program a few years back to play with this very technique, with pretty decent results. I'm sure Apple could do it even better. This would be the most backwards-compatible solution if they can make it work well.

To those commenting on the level of 'anger' in my original post, I was afraid it would come across that way. Really it's just frustration. I love listening to music, and this single issue hampers my enjoyment more than anything else. Can I live with it? Obviously, yes. When I'm driving, I rarely notice the gaps from the iPod. But often I just want to really listen to a piece of work, focusing my entire attention on it. Gaps in playback ruin that. Pulling out the original CDs to mitigate that is a huge hassle after being spoiled by the ease of iTunes/iPod for casual listening.

My frustration reaches such high levels simply because I know the solution is doable. Apple could probably put a couple engineers on the task for a month or two and have it pretty much implemented. Both in iTunes and iPod. The fact that they don't care about a minority of their users with a legitimate quality concern is what frustrates me.

I'll continue to bug Apple about it, and I'll continue to post on forums like this so that others hopefully realize there's a problem too.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

The new search blows, big time.

If I wanted to listen to Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited album, I'd go into my library and type "bob dy highway" and it'll show up. If I type that in iTunes 5, nothing shows up. I have to either type the artist name or the album name, and physically click "artist" or "album."

Type that in Spotlight...

 

[Diatribe]

And here. I'm really not liking this - it's this exact trait from pre iTunes 4.9 which prevented me from getting into podcasts in the first place. Now they've undone it.

Incredibly and unbelievably frustrating.

Yeah, not liking that either. Especially not if there is still the list in the source list. It does make sense from Apple's pov to include EVERYTHING in the library though. Just create a smart list without the movies, podcasts and pdfs...

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Ok... now I'm starting to get pi**ed... I started downloading 2 fudging hours ago ( ) and the ETA doesn't get much closer...

 

[Sirus The Virus]

found it!

kill sizzling tunes and then install! maybe they should post that somewhere.

Thanks. I was starting to get extremely angry about the pop up thing. I can't thank you enough for preventing some damage.

 

[MarkCollette]

Actually, I've also been waiting for this feature from day one. It's something that Apple could fix really easily. A surprising number of albums "flow" from one song to another and the fading is inadequate for this. The Join Tracks feature is no use.

I can understand that albums don't have gapless functionality, because iTunes doesn't seem to have data structures representing albums. Sure, it can sort off of the ID3 tags or whatever, but that's more of a dynamic relationship.

But, what I don't understand is, why can't we make a playlist, and set a property on it, so that the playlist will be gapless?

Then maybe it would save us from all the whining

 

[Philsy]

Looks fine to me, albeit all my Apple apps I have open each looks slightly different.

The pale-green display window is archaic now, though. It was designed to mirror the colour of an iPod screen, but now all iPods have colour screens.