Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

xofruitcake

macrumors 6502a
Mar 15, 2012
632
9
I agree, 4" it's too small for a smart phone these days. Not smart enough.

I tried Galaxy Note and that is a bit too big at 5.5" though still very nice.

But 4.8" Galaxy S3 is a sweet spot for me size wise: the soft keyboard is large enough, you can read ebooks easily, browse sites easier and it is still very pocketable though I use belt holster.

If Apple wants to compete, they need to offer 2 or even 3 sizes: 4", 4.8", 5.5" phablet. And they need to do it fast. Consumer likes choice and everyone has different needs/preferences. I guess the problem is that the "pixel-perfect" iOS does not handle various sizes very well. iOS needs to be rewritten to handle fluid layouts and various screen sizes. Otherwise, you have that "fragmentation". Apple is stuck with it. Apple rushed to the market with original iPhone with OS which is not future-proof.

On contrary, Android OS works with various screen ratios/sizes, even with tablets, digital cameras and refrigerator displays. Smart enough.

I beg to differ. The problem of Iphone market share is not the phone size, it is the affordability outside of US and Western Europe where the income level can support Iphone price point. Samsung S3 look to be ending it's run selling about 40M unit. Apple sell 37M in 4Q11 when they launch Iphone 4S. And majority of the Android sold in 3Q12 (where the 15% Iphone market share come from) is not big screen size Android, it is the $150, $200, $300 dollars Android device that is sold outside of the affluence countries. If Apple is serious about the market share issue (and they should, otherwise we will have a replay of Window PC vs MAC scenario again), they should tackle the $300-$400 unlock smartphone market. Right now Iphone has 45% to 60% gross margin (not net margin), ipad has 23 to 32% gorss margin (per Samsung trial document), and Ipad mini probably in the mid-teen gross margin, Apple can afford to design a low end Iphone that has 30-35% gross margin and a price between $300-$400. Outside of a few countries, LTE is useless and Apple can cut out a lot of the high end stuff (e.g the really nice camera in Iphone 5) and customer will still love the IOS environment. And they can probably sell 2 to 3x as much Iphone + Iphone value line. This will get them to at least 30-35% market share consistently. The $100-300 smartphone has no profit in them and I don't see Apple tackle those unless they are really desperate in spreading out development cost.
 

ssspinball

macrumors 6502
Aug 6, 2008
348
174
I don't know. When I bought my android, it cost $100 more than the iPhone5 sitting next to it. But it may be the case for others.

Sounds like you bought your phone at the wrong time given how fast they typically drop in price.
 

aerok

macrumors 65816
Oct 29, 2011
1,491
139
Seems a bit obvious though. Of course it came down to software. What's the iPhone without its OS. Or any smart or feature phone.

Apps = software
Email = software
MMS = software

etc.

At launch, my opinion (which others share and others don't) the Original iPhone was not a smartphone but a feature phone. It wasn't until (for me) it had an appstore (3rd party apps); MMS and Exchange email that I considered the iPhone a true Smartphone. Until then - for me - it was a really slick feature phone.

I think you have to stop using logic, it's not working here
 

saturn88

macrumors 6502
Sep 5, 2011
413
57
It's not easy to define a smartphone:
I would even argue that the BlackBerry was not a smart phone in 2007 when the iPhone arrived.
In my opinion a smartphone should have:
  • Touch Screen
  • App Store
  • A Full Internet Browser
  • Gyroscopes
  • WiFi Radio
  • GPS
  • Gigs of Storage
  • Fast CPU
  • Camera cable of Video

It should also have user access to the file system.
 

iGrip

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,626
0
I still love my iPads and Macs, but feel that Android is taking the lead in the phone market.


Do you think that there is any chance of Windows 8 Tablets taking the lead in the tablet market?
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
Seems a bit obvious though. Of course it came down to software. What's the iPhone without its OS. Or any smart or feature phone.

Apps = software
Email = software
MMS = software

etc.

At launch, my opinion (which others share and others don't) the Original iPhone was not a smartphone but a feature phone. It wasn't until (for me) it had an appstore (3rd party apps); MMS and Exchange email that I considered the iPhone a true Smartphone. Until then - for me - it was a really slick feature phone.

True enough. Though I think the definition of smartphone has changed (largely due to what Apple did with the iPhone) from 2007 to now. For instance - the Kyocera 6035 was considered a "smartphone" back in 2001. Would it pass for anything but a clunky feature phone today?

I know you said it earlier and I agree - the term "smartphone" has a very fluid definition. In 10 years, we'll be looking back and wondering how we ever got along with a phone that ONLY had a quad core processor and 1 GB RAM.
 

iGrip

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,626
0
I wear a tailored suit or professional slacks, not cargo pants or shorts like you likely wear.

Apple changed the world when they outlawed wearing suits at the office.

"We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits. We're Apple."

Are you sure that you are buying the right kit with Apple? They are the brand for the crazy ones and the rebels - certainly not a reasonable choice for people who wear suits.
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
It should also have user access to the file system.

For what reason? I can access each file on my iOS devices for the purposes they are there/were created? Why do I need to be able to access all the technical files? (which I would be able to with a simple jailbreak that takes all of 2 minutes)

How about a smartphone needing a proper backup system? My iPhone automatically backs up every night and if anything ever happens to it, I restore my new device from the backup file on iCloud and I have my old phone exactly the way it was (settings and all) back.

Maybe I missed something, but it was a bear when I had to return my N7 and get a replacement. Sure all of my apps were backed up - but I had to go back and arrange them the same way I had them, re- setup my email accounts and so on.....I'm aware there are tools for this if you root your device.

You want your Android "customization". That's fine, good for you. I'd rather have my iPhone's design, ease of use and ecosystem. To each his own.
 

swagi

macrumors 6502a
Sep 6, 2007
905
123
Other then video, all these things could be done on the first phone, Apple just didn't do them, expect 3rd party apps came about ~8 months later....

ORLY?

Could you please elaborate on the great MMS support by the first gen iPhone?

I still remember the times when I was SO FN' EMBARASSED that my 600bucks iPhone directed mne to a webbrowser page...

...because it couldn't do MMS.

The Apple apologist at that time posted "Who needs MMS when you can use eMail?"

Could it be that you just forgot about how bad some implementations on the EDGE(!) iPhone were?
 

goobot

macrumors 603
Jun 26, 2009
6,489
4,376
long island NY
I hate when people say buy a tablet. What a stupid thing to say. Tablets only work at 10 inch or bigger. Try making a phone call on a tablet. (And no skype is not an alternative.) You can’t have a 10 inch phone.
That said I like my iPhone 5 screen size. Sure I wish it was a bit bigger but I wouldn’t changes phones because of it.

iPad mini or kindle fire, and when i have my iPad that doesn't mean i all of a sudden no longer have my iPhone in my pocket for a phone call.
 

ncaissie

macrumors 6502a
Dec 1, 2011
665
6
iPad mini or kindle fire, and when i have my iPad that doesn't mean i all of a sudden no longer have my iPhone in my pocket for a phone call.

I carry my iPad 2 and iPhone 5 24/7 but not everyone can afford an ipad and iphone.
 

SunnyRenegade33

macrumors member
Nov 16, 2012
87
0
Doesn't matter to me, to be honest. Until Android develops an app store comparable to iOS, I won't even begin to think about using Android. The variety that the App store provides is what justifies Apple's premium, IMO.

I also love Apple's product designs, I'll flat out admit it.


Now with that said, I love Google as well, I don't know what I'd do without their search engine or some of their internet services (like Google Chrome) - although I could definitely do without Google + :)

Since I have a Canon camera, Gateway laptop, Gateway desktop, iPhone, iPod, and iPad, I don't look for too much from my iPhone.

Screen size isn't an issue to me because I have an iPad 4, although, I understand how it could be an issue for some people who don't have as many devices as others.

We should never forget that opinions are purely subjective and are relative to the individual's needs.
 

Fruit Cake

macrumors 6502a
Mar 31, 2012
597
20
I have nothing against two strong contenders! Of course, they will overtake one another every now and then.

I think that are 4 categories for Android and iOS:
1) Those who prefer iOS
2) Those who prefer Android
3) Those who despise iOS/Apple
4) Those who despise Android/Google

To each his own... Although those in #3 and #4 should get a life...

At this point, RIM and MS should just be included in "others". On the other hand, I welcome them for trying.

Some of us prefer the best of both worlds and have both. :)

----------

The screen size issue is interesting. If the bigger screens on Android phones are all the better for surfing the net, then why do figures consistently show that more people are surfing the net on iOS devices?

There was an interesting article about this a while ago, the jist of which was that more people in the market for a smartphone are going for iOS, whereas more people in the market for a regular phone are ending up with Android smartphones.

Because figures are statistics, and statistics can be skewed easily, depending on who's benefiting.
 

gotluck

macrumors 603
Dec 8, 2011
5,712
1,204
East Central Florida
For what reason? I can access each file on my iOS devices for the purposes they are there/were created? Why do I need to be able to access all the technical files? (which I would be able to with a simple jailbreak that takes all of 2 minutes)

How about a smartphone needing a proper backup system? My iPhone automatically backs up every night and if anything ever happens to it, I restore my new device from the backup file on iCloud and I have my old phone exactly the way it was (settings and all) back.

Maybe I missed something, but it was a bear when I had to return my N7 and get a replacement. Sure all of my apps were backed up - but I had to go back and arrange them the same way I had them, re- setup my email accounts and so on.....I'm aware there are tools for this if you root your device.

You want your Android "customization". That's fine, good for you. I'd rather have my iPhone's design, ease of use and ecosystem. To each his own.

But you could keep all of iOS' advantages. All apple has to do is allow ifile into the app store. It will not negatively effect users that don't want access to the file system. Now that I've used iOS with Ifile , I cannot go back.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,763
10,890
But only in the US? :rolleyes:

The obvious difference in the US being carrier availability and subsidized pricing. My theory is that the main drivers of Android market share vs the iPhone are lower pricing and wider distribution. That is supported by what we are seeing in the US market.
 

Switchback666

macrumors 68000
Nov 16, 2012
1,600
67
SXM
ujysybah.jpg


For the people that claim the iphone 5 is perfect and the rest are "too big" etc here is a picture.
 

saturn88

macrumors 6502
Sep 5, 2011
413
57
For what reason? I can access each file on my iOS devices for the purposes they are there/were created? Why do I need to be able to access all the technical files? (which I would be able to with a simple jailbreak that takes all of 2 minutes)

I did not say "each file". Jailbreaking is too technical for regular user and will void your warranty.

Can you use your iPhone as USB storage?
Can you mount your iPhone as a drive on your Mac/PC?
Can you view your iPhone files and folders in the web browser over wi-fi?

How about a smartphone needing a proper backup system? My iPhone automatically backs up every night and if anything ever happens to it, I restore my new device from the backup file on iCloud and I have my old phone exactly the way it was (settings and all) back.

Can you setup a backup of a certain iPhone file folder to an FTP site of your choice?
 

baryon

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2009
3,879
2,940
Back in the day the phone was just a phone. Its now a small computer almost with phone fuctions. A laptop does not fit in your pocket. Come on does anyone buy an iphone and just use the phone function?

Sure, but how far can we keep making phones bigger, just because they do more? Why won't the iPad mini replace the iPhone? There's a huge importance of size here, and I think that those huge Android phones (not sure of the model, Samsung something) cross that border. Sure, bigger screen = more stuff on the screen, but it also means bigger device. I think the iPhone 4 was the right size, and the iPhone 5 is a little bit too big, but if they reduced the top and bottom bezel, it would be perfect. Thinness is not everything, the whole size needs to be considered.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.