Consumer Reports Finds New iPad Gets Warm, Can't Charge Under Heavy Loads

[bobob]

Heat = wasted power.

Is that strictly true in terms of computer processing power?

Pretty much everything in a computer is eventually turned to heat after it's used, other than a bit emanating out as sound or light waves.

So it's not "wasted" then.

 

[2IS]

...whereas the Macbook Pro, with it's 77 watt-hour battery, and 85 watt power adapter, would charge in less than an hour. While that's not actually the case, as you can't charge a battery that fast, it offers a lot more headroom for running it while charging than the new iPad does.

You can absolutely fully charge a battery in under an hour.

 

[kazmac]

Just keep in mind the disclosure you agreed to for using Siri(dictation).

Siri will upload your personal information.

Upload, capture, store, profile...
They also like to share your personal information gathered for "product improvements"

It's like Apple enacted the Patriot Act on Siri users.



http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone4s.pdf.

Thanks for the reminder.

I am not too worried as my iPad can't even understand the names I say while using dictation. If I am not writing my own fiction/scripts, it'll probably just be routine class assignments.

If I start seeing Agents J or K at my door, then I'll worry.

I don't use Siri all that much on my iPhone (it's shut off).

 

[rjohnstone]

I thought they were only cooler due to the fans that kicked in when things got warm. Oh wait, maybe I am thinking of the prototype Win 8 tablet.

You're thinking of the Samsung Series 7 tablet they dropped Win 8 Dev preview on and handed out to devs.
There were no prototype tablets given out or even used in the demo.
The tablet they gave out had a mobile Core i5 CPU in it. The same CPU found in a MacBook Air.

 

[thetoad30]

this argument is completely subjective, whilst $200 may not seem like a lot to you, i sure as hell would want anything i spend $200 on to work flawlessly...

there definitely is a worldwide recognition that Apple produce quality products, and people buy it for that reason - my mum being one.


as i said, this is all subjective, i personally would never use an iPad for more than an hour at a time so for me this is a non issue.

I'm speaking relatively for the market being discussed, since you cannot buy a $25 tablet, and $200 is about base price for one.

Personally everything I buy I'd prefer it to be flawless, since I'm spending my money on it. But that's not realistic.

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I have a mophie external battery that will charge the iPad 3 while I am using it. It is only 2.1 not the 10w of the iPad charger. Used it for about an hour while plugged in to the mophie battery and it gained about 10%. If yours never charges while in normal use, there may be an issue with your unit. Might want to set up an appointment with a genius.

Are you perhaps confusing Watts and Amps? I know most iPad chargers are 2.1 Amps, which at 5 Volts is 10.5 Watts (Power = Voltage * Current).

 

[thetoad30]

Exactly. These things use a lot of power, and that's just a side effect of that.

I use my MBP 15" (85W Magsafe) on a 65W charger a lot of the time, since that's what I have around from my older Macbook, and it works fine, but one time when I was Skyping and running a bunch of crap spread across two monitors, it drained slowly while plugged in to the 65W. It's no big deal, the activities that drain it do so slowly enough that it doesn't negatively affect the end user.

The bigger issue I see here is how slow that massive battery is going to be to charge way up with that little power going into it. The iPad has a 42.5 watt-hour battery with 10 watts of input, so even at 100% efficiency, that would be over four hours of charging, whereas the Macbook Pro, with it's 77 watt-hour battery, and 85 watt power adapter, would charge in less than an hour. While that's not actually the case, as you can't charge a battery that fast, it offers a lot more headroom for running it while charging than the new iPad does.

Once again the crowd that thinks this way only thinks in the best-case scenario.

How about at a school where these things won't be plugged in? What happens when you use it cordless and drop the charge to say 30%? And then you plug it in and need to keep using it? It keeps draining. So it's not 20 hours as you state - it becomes significantly less.

I see this becoming a huge issue for airlines that want to use it as a flight device. I know how intense those applications can be on power - I'm a private pilot (not an airline pilot) and having the unit be wireless is a huge factor in how it's used. Airlines don't allow power to be used in excess on airplanes to prevent overloads of the electrical system - that's why your airline adapter only prevents discharging.

Start thinking real-world, not best-case. And please, for the love of God, stop saying it's a non-issue. If it was a non-issue, it wouldn't ******** exist in the first place.

 

[BiggAW]

Once again the crowd that thinks this way only thinks in the best-case scenario.

How about at a school where these things won't be plugged in? What happens when you use it cordless and drop the charge to say 30%? And then you plug it in and need to keep using it? It keeps draining. So it's not 20 hours as you state - it becomes significantly less.

I see this becoming a huge issue for airlines that want to use it as a flight device. I know how intense those applications can be on power - I'm a private pilot (not an airline pilot) and having the unit be wireless is a huge factor in how it's used. Airlines don't allow power to be used in excess on airplanes to prevent overloads of the electrical system - that's why your airline adapter only prevents discharging.

Start thinking real-world, not best-case. And please, for the love of God, stop saying it's a non-issue. If it was a non-issue, it wouldn't ******** exist in the first place.

They last for 10 hours. Schools aren't even in session for 10 hours, much less do they have scheduling so tight that they would continually use them for that long. And they would charge them overnight.

They charge when they are plugged in an in use, unless you are playing an extreme game, so your other scenarios are not realistic.

20 watts of power in the cockpit on a jet aircraft is not a big deal. Any current limits that were enacted were because of old electrical systems not designed for modern use, I'm sure modern airplanes have plenty of "hotel" power available. Don't the newest ones have 20A plugs wired at each seat?

 

[thetoad30]

They last for 10 hours. Schools aren't even in session for 10 hours, much less do they have scheduling so tight that they would continually use them for that long. And they would charge them overnight.

They charge when they are plugged in an in use, unless you are playing an extreme game, so your other scenarios are not realistic.

20 watts of power in the cockpit on a jet aircraft is not a big deal. Any current limits that were enacted were because of old electrical systems not designed for modern use, I'm sure modern airplanes have plenty of "hotel" power available. Don't the newest ones have 20A plugs wired at each seat?

Really? Apple quotes battery length at full power use? Seems hardly able to cope, being that it can't charge at full power use.

20A plugs? Maybe on the newest triple-sevens and the 380. But again, how realistic is that? There are a lot of older planes out there.

 

[BiggAW]

You can absolutely fully charge a battery in under an hour.

Not in an MBP. The controller limits the charge rate.

 

[thetoad30]

The antenna was a problem. Fine.

How about when Ryan Block at gdgt.com tried to manufacture "Glassgate", saying that a piece of debris or sand "could" get in between the back glass and a slide on case and scratch the glass or even shatter it if the debris is too big. No known occurences of this. Just something that COULD happen.

That's exactly like what this whole heat thing is. Someone says their iPad got warm with use. Now it's been spun so out of proportion that people are saying they could get 3rd degree burns from checking Twitter on their iPads.

It's irresponsible journalism and it's only happening to get clicks. Honestly, Apple should go after sites like that.

Wrong. It did happen, to me. My glass isn't shattered, but with the full-case I have on the device, it did scratch the screen, both front and back.

 

[AidenShaw]

I'm sure modern airplanes have plenty of "hotel" power available. Don't the newest ones have 20A plugs wired at each seat?

No - in fact some of them can't do 1A (at 120v). I was tripping the breaker (fortunately, thermal auto-reset) on a Cathay Pacific B-class seat with my Latitude. I had to disable the second core and put things into "slow" mode until the batteries charged.

The 120v seat outlet couldn't handle both running normally and charging at the same time - but at minimum power mode I was OK. Once both batteries charged I was able to enable the 2nd core. (The batteries charge serially, so removing one battery would not have made a difference.)

 

[thetoad30]

Pretty much everything in a computer is eventually turned to heat after it's used, other than a bit emanating out as sound or light waves.

This is so far from the truth it defies logic.

Heat is wasted electricity. You cannot use something, then turn it to heat. You are violating conservation of energy.

You either have heat, or you have "something"...

 

[RVAgaffer]

so after a few pages of the "it's and issue" "it's not an issue" back and forth and the "they should have just given a bigger charger" i got tried of reading the same thing over and over, so maybe this was mentioned but i couldn't find it from skimming.

Yeah a bigger charger would provide more power... but everyone seems to ignore the wires in the chargers and the thickness of the connections in the connector might not be able to handle the actual load. USB out puts at 5 volts, and depending on the source usually less than 5 watts (less than 1 amp). the chargers apple provide are 5 volts and 5/10 watts depending on which one, 1 and 2 amps respectively. Depending on the actual wiring in the usb to 32 pin connector cables going to any higher could burn them out check out this chart http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm that shows what load wire sizes can take (remember watts/volts= amps). Looking at the MBP chargers, they can carry 4.6 amps max on a cable that is as thick as the iPhone/ipad chargers... but short of cutting open both of the wires we are left to trying find the actual specs somewhere. Even then that will only tell us if the cable could carry it not if the connectors at either end can carry the load. Honestly the highest Amp USB chargers i have ever seen are 2 A, i know Powerd USB can get up to 6 amps but that struts using a bit different connectors AFAIK, and remember 6 amps at 5 volts is still only 30 watts.

Just food for thought. Apple can do a lot... but they can't defy physics.

 

[2IS]

Not in an MBP. The controller limits the charge rate.

Agreed, but the post did not specify that. It was a general statement that batteries cannot charge that fast. Its a limitation imposed by the device, not the physical nature of batteries in general.

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Start thinking real-world, not best-case. And please, for the love of God, stop saying it's a non-issue. If it was a non-issue, it wouldn't ******** exist in the first place.

Enlighten us...

In the real world, what class is in session for 10 hours?
In the real world, sometimes you can forget to charge your iPad over night. Fair enough, you go to school with 20% power. What will you be doing in class that is so draining your battery actually discharges when plugged in?

Please don't preach "real world" when you're doomsday scenarios won't actually happen in the real world

If there was no such thing as non-issues, the phrase non-issue would not exist, but it does because it's necessary to describe this.

 

[Inconsequential]

Having just played infinity blade II for an hour, the iPad (Early 2012) was warmer due to my hands rather than the chip.

This is a complete non-issue.

As for charging, it's left charging overnight, so a nice, fully charged iPad is always there when I need it.

 

[BiggAW]

No - in fact some of them can't do 1A (at 120v). I was tripping the breaker (fortunately, thermal auto-reset) on a Cathay Pacific B-class seat with my Latitude. I had to disable the second core and put things into "slow" mode until the batteries charged.

The 120v seat outlet couldn't handle both running normally and charging at the same time - but at minimum power mode I was OK. Once both batteries charged I was able to enable the 2nd core. (The batteries charge serially, so removing one battery would not have made a difference.)

That's one bad electrical system. I'd think the newer ones would have at least 50-100 amps of 120 volt power available... The big issue for aeros is weight, but once you start generating power, the marginal weight for a little more shouldn't be that much.

This is so far from the truth it defies logic.

Heat is wasted electricity. You cannot use something, then turn it to heat. You are violating conservation of energy.

You either have heat, or you have "something"...

I said pretty much everything. The small remaining amount is light or sound, which eventually gets turned into heat in the room anyways...

Just food for thought. Apple can do a lot... but they can't defy physics.

As was mentioned before, they could boost the voltage up.

 

[thetoad30]

Enlighten us...

In the real world, what class is in session for 10 hours?
In the real world, sometimes you can forget to charge your iPad over night. Fair enough, you go to school with 20% power. What will you be doing in class that is so draining your battery actually discharges when plugged in?

Please don't preach "real world" when you're doomsday scenarios won't actually happen in the real world

If there was no such thing as non-issues, the phrase non-issue would not exist, but it does because it's necessary to describe this.

First, I never said a class was in session 8 hours. I said that a battery, at medium to full use, would never last 10 hours. So cut it in half - 5 hours. 5 hours a day using interactive books, graphs, apps that really utilize the GPU and the CPU. Say anatomy, physics, math, storybooks. Whatever. Again, your "real world" at 10 hours is fantasy land since 10 hours is the max the battery lasts at light load.

So you go with 20%, and you need to use wireless and do all the above. I'm even more thinking about how these things could be used in surgery, to interactively feed MRI images or CAT scan images to the surgeon. After all, it was Apple who marketed for these functions.

And finally, the logic you use for someone making up a word is in itself flawed.

New and Improved is a very good example. Just because someone came up with it and said it, does not make it a valid example.

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That's one bad electrical system. I'd think the newer ones would have at least 50-100 amps of 120 volt power available... The big issue for aeros is weight, but once you start generating power, the marginal weight for a little more shouldn't be that much.

You are very obviously not a pilot. The only thing that matters in an airplane are, in order, the engines, the flight instruments, and the communication instruments. Everything else is luxury.

I said pretty much everything. The small remaining amount is light or sound, which eventually gets turned into heat in the room anyways...

And I'm still telling you that argument is off base. My relatively high-end PC pulls at most 350W. No where near 350W of heat comes out of the PC. You are so far off base with no proof behind your argument that it just screams of you not understanding how basic physics works.

As was mentioned before, they could boost the voltage up.

Clearly, with the arguments you presented above, you are not an engineer, nor have a scientific mind for engineering. Please leave that to the experts; I can only imagine the kind of flaws a product you'd design would have...

 

[bawbac]

Heat bad. Cool good.

Electronic circuitry operates best and most reliably at lower temperatures. However, today’s more complex and smaller device dimensions along with closer packing result in higher heat density and elevated operating temperatures.

Higher operating temperatures decrease the service life of the device or module. Any temperature sensitive materials used in a module can degrade and wear out more quickly. Other failure mechanisms, such as metal migration, can occur, particularly when both high temperature and humidity conditions are present. Here, metal whiskers or dendrites can grow from the conducting lines. With lines being spaced closer together in today’s devices, shorts between lines can occur and cause device failure. Additionally, when temperatures fluctuate, device interconnections and other components can fatigue from expansion and contraction due to thermal stresses and eventually fail.

Higher temperatures also increase the electrical resistance of the conducting lines within a device or module, slowing the signal speed and reducing performance. As devices become more complex, conducting paths become longer and this performance reduction is more significant.

For all of the above reasons, it’s critical to minimize temperature of the electronics by designing efficient ways of carrying away their generated heat.

DOW CORNING

 

[2IS]

First, I never said a class was in session 8 hours. I said that a battery, at medium to full use, would never last 10 hours. So cut it in half - 5 hours. 5 hours a day using interactive books, graphs, apps that really utilize the GPU and the CPU. Say anatomy, physics, math, storybooks. Whatever. Again, your "real world" at 10 hours is fantasy land since 10 hours is the max the battery lasts at light load.:

So now your definition of real world is simply making stuff up. Books? the vast majority of your interaction is simply reading whats on the screen, meaning everything but the back light is idle. You aren't heavy scrolling for 5 hours non-stop. Graphs? Again, calculating graphs takes mere moments, the rest of the time you're looking at them. It's an iPad, not a supercomputer you aren't going to be doing anything that takes hours of calculations. If you're using an app with real time graphs that are constantly updating, you aren't going to be doing it for 5 hours straight.

No only are these examples you've provided not going to be used the way you're suggesting and not put the load on you're pretending they would, but you still have the option of plugging it in. Since it will be iPad will be idling most of the time anyway, it will still receive a charge. So if we convert your make-believe real-world scenario to actual real-world, we have a situation where you'll have 5 hours of battery life after the power from the wall runs dry.

Not to mention 10 hours is not the max, 10 hours is with scren at 50% browsing. In Class, you also have an instructior and lecture. Where your ipad is either doing light load if you're note takeing or no load at all if you're listening. 10 hours is very achievable. Especially considering the reviews I've read said that 10 hour mark is pretty spot on.

Still waiting for you real-world scenarios where this is an issue. You clearly haven not provided it.

 

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
No - in fact some of them can't do 1A (at 120v). I was tripping the breaker (fortunately, thermal auto-reset) on a Cathay Pacific B-class seat with my Latitude. I had to disable the second core and put things into "slow" mode until the batteries charged.

That's one bad electrical system. I'd think the newer ones would have at least 50-100 amps of 120 volt power available... The big issue for aeros is weight, but once you start generating power, the marginal weight for a little more shouldn't be that much.

That 1A was per seat outlet, not per airplane.

Note:

Powerports

On some aircraft, your seat may be equipped with a DC power outlet, using a "cigarette lighter" style outlet delivering 15 volts of direct current (and up to 75 watts). We do not provide adapters, but they are available for purchase on the Duty Free cart internationally where we offer duty free. On select B737 & B757 aircraft, your seat may be equipped with an AC power outlet, using an outlet similar to a standard U.S. style home outlet. These AC outlets provide 110 volts of power. On most aircraft*, a power outlet is available at each seat in First and Business class, as well as selected rows in the Coach cabin. On select B737 & 757 aircraft, there is an outlet available on each row.

Outlets may be used to operate laptop computers, CD/DVD players, and other devices with a maximum 75-watt capacity. Outlets are located on your seat console, or mounted to the seat frame below your seat cushion. Look for the "lightning bolt" symbol on the overhead bin rows containing powerport-equipped seats. Splitter or Y adaptor cords may not be used. Only one device is allowed per outlet. System power is available when the green light on the outlet is illuminated. For detailed powerport locations by aircraft type, visit the Our Planes section on AA.com.

http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInform...oardTechnology.jsp?anchorEvent=false&from=Nav

I assume that safety is part of the reason for the low wattage limit - fires are less likely with limited power.

 

[linux2mac]

This CR report means zilch. Will not impact iPad sales at all.

"Already skirting the edge of irrelevance, Android tablets are at risk of being completely overwhelmed by Apple’s new iPad."

What Google Must Do to Keep Android Tablets Alive
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/?p=94025?utm_source=twitter

 

[bawbac]

This CR report means zilch. Will not impact iPad sales at all.

"Already skirting the edge of irrelevance, Android tablets are at risk of being completely overwhelmed by Apple’s new iPad."

What Google Must Do to Keep Android Tablets Alive
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/?p=94025?utm_source=twitter

But it can impact/increase the exchange/return rate.

Also, one opinion/article doesn't substantiate a fact but a mere speculation.

 

[kdarling]

I saw another article yesterday that said it heats up to 97 degrees.http://www.appleinsider.com/article...hows_operating_temperature_of_97_degrees.html

What I don't understand:

All of the measurements I've seen were done with the iPad radiating in free air, where the heat is greatly lessened.

I would like a magazine to do a test where the iPad is laying against someone's skin, with a thermometer between.

If that trapped area got to around 109F or above, then you would begin to see undesirable effects like the Toasted Skin rashes that doctors report.

--

Another downside of extra heat is that it affects total battery lifetime. An extra ten degrees will take weeks or months away from it.

 

[linux2mac]

But it can impact/increase the exchange/return rate.

Also, one opinion/article doesn't substantiate a fact but a mere speculation.

You really think there is only "one" article out there touting iPad's dominance in the tablet market?

 

[bobob]

What I don't understand:

All of the measurements I've seen were done with the iPad radiating in free air, where the heat is greatly lessened.

I would like a magazine to do a test where the iPad is laying against someone's skin, with a thermometer between.

If that trapped area got to around 109F or above, then you would begin to see undesirable effects like the Toasted Skin rashes that doctors report.

--

Another downside of extra heat is that it affects total battery lifetime. An extra ten degrees will take weeks or months away from it.