iBook Updates Imminent?

[areyouwishing]

im a graphic designer and I can certainly say, my first apple machine will be a laptop. I can kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Check apple font/HTML compatibilities and get a portable for school. I could even say 3 birds, with the x11 enviroment now on a mac (on my way for a CIS degree).

Although I personally don't think this rumor holds too much water, The 12" powerbook is too expensive for what you get, if the ibooks go 900, expect the 12" pb to be the way of the cube.


Barefeats Benchmarks (ibook vs. imac vs. emac)
This is a kind of interesting article on the ibook (700mhz). You can see the non-altivec scores... how many mobile people out there care about altivec? I don't, but i could be in the minority.

oops, even better...
ibook vs. Powerbooks

 

[superscientific]

how many mobile people out there care about altivec?


I do!!!

 

[areyouwishing]

sorry, i guess i should have clarified, I meant in a mobility sense.

I mean, I don't imagine a whole lot of people doing content creation that HAS to be altivec enhanced. Once again, I could be way off on this one.

 

[Raiwong]

apple is not promoting or putting effort into the ibook at all, they do nott sell the good points about the ibook rather they make the customers believe that they are getting something crap for a relatively cheap price when they are not.

ibooks are in fact quite fast apple is stupid not to try the market potential in promoting cheap and good laptops like ibooks which they are in comparison to pc laptops. instead they promote laptops which little people can afford in a economy like this

 

[Abstract]

I agree.


And about Altivec, if you're a graphic designer like you said you are, you will be one of those people interested in Altivec as well. For those who write reports, do some spreadsheet work, and check email, then the iBook is perfect.

And I agree with QCassidy and Thanatoast about the proposition of dropping the G4 all together. Even if you were to drop a 1GHz G4 into the iBook after the release of the 970 in the PB's, there isn't much upgradeability once you speed bump the iBook beyond that. Lets say from 1GHz, you can bump to 1.25 and 1.42 GHz. It's really a dead-end chip by a dead-end company with respect to Apple. IBM makes a perfectly good G3 without Altivec. I realize that Altivec in an iBook would be nice, but its a cheap consumer notebook. Lets not go overboard here. A professional graphics designer should not be purchasing an iBook to begin with, despite the price difference between that and the PB. If you need the power, you know where to turn --- the PB. If you need something to type essays with, then the iBook is the answer. The iBook was never meant to fill the needs of the graphics designers, and so the G3 is more than adequate for it's intention.

 

[reyesmac]

Originally posted by mstecker
You mean like the 12" and 17" Powerbooks?

Those two models didnt even get speedbumps, how can you say that they improved the platform in any big way? Those two models are not enough to justify the year of the laptop slogan.

And as far as the iBook finally getting to 900mhz, just look at what speed G3 Apple was using when it came out with the iBook and add up the years. We should have been past the ghz barrier on those things by now. Motorolla needs to go, just use new and fast IBM chips for everything.

 

[QCassidy352]

just to clarify what I meant about the 2 Ghz G3:

To my knowledge, what IBM currently has is a 1 Ghz G3. However, I remember reading a statement by IBM that they *could* push the G3 line to 2 Ghz without too much trouble (if someone, i.e. apple, were interested).

I meant that Apple could probably drop the 1 Ghz chips in to ibooks starting tomorrow (not literally tomorrow; you know what I mean), and have 2 Ghz ibooks available in an amount of time that would make us all very happy.

 

[areyouwishing]

Originally posted by Abstract
I agree.


And about Altivec, if you're a graphic designer like you said you are, you will be one of those people interested in Altivec as well. For those who write reports, do some spreadsheet work, and check email, then the iBook is perfect.

And I agree with QCassidy and Thanatoast about the proposition of dropping the G4 all together. Even if you were to drop a 1GHz G4 into the iBook after the release of the 970 in the PB's, there isn't much upgradeability once you speed bump the iBook beyond that. Lets say from 1GHz, you can bump to 1.25 and 1.42 GHz. It's really a dead-end chip by a dead-end company with respect to Apple. IBM makes a perfectly good G3 without Altivec. I realize that Altivec in an iBook would be nice, but its a cheap consumer notebook. Lets not go overboard here. A professional graphics designer should not be purchasing an iBook to begin with, despite the price difference between that and the PB. If you need the power, you know where to turn --- the PB. If you need something to type essays with, then the iBook is the answer. The iBook was never meant to fill the needs of the graphics designers, and so the G3 is more than adequate for it's intention.

The more I think about this from a (relatively price conscious) graphic designers standpoint, the more I see a preference for an ibook, rather than a Powerbook. I think everyone would agree that a designer does not want a 12.1" screen. So you can throw out the low-end powerbooks, and ibooks. That means that if you want altivec you are paying a premium of 800 bux just for a 1.1 inch larger screen and 160 altivec instructions, sure your getting the gigabit ethernet and the radeon 9000, but for 800 extra? Thats a lot. I also don't know of a designer that would "design" on a laptop, let alone need altivec on the road. It would be light work only, I know my light work i wouldn't need altivec, heck, I have a 800mhz p3 at work and it works good enough even on 40x50 airport displays @ 150 line screen, and it sure as hell doesn't have altivec. I mean yeah, if you have money to burn go get a powerbook, but 800 extra bux to save some seconds on a few apps only when on the road, just doesn't seem worth it, i could once again be wrong.

So lets have it... Who would pay $800 extra bones for the features in the 15" powerbook over the ibook?

Main Differences...
a G4 that is 66mhz faster
a 1.1" larger screen (1280x854)
10 more gigabytes
A Radeon 9000 (same 32mb)
Gigabit ethernet
1 hour LESS battery time

All this is supposed to equal $800?

 

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
Whoa, easy on the G3...


I would love to see benchmarks of an 867 G4 and a 900 G3, I think it would surprise some people.

G3 is a great chip but comparing the 867 MHz Powerbook to a 900 Mhz iBook wouldn't give you a real good comparison between the processors. The two machines use differnt bus and memory configurations. I also think the base hardrives will have different performances (if they stick with the current harddrives.)

Motorola is coming out with an impressive low power model of the G4 in the higher Mhz range but still lacks the power performance IBM is able to get out of the G3.

All in all the G3 will out perform a G4 Mhz for Mhz in tasks that do not benefit from AltiVec.

 

[iJon]

Originally posted by AllenPSU
G3 is a great chip but comparing the 867 MHz Powerbook to a 900 Mhz iBook wouldn't give you a real good comparison between the processors. The two machines use differnt bus and memory configurations. I also think the base hardrives will have different performances (if they stick with the current harddrives.)

Motorola is coming out with an impressive low power model of the G4 in the higher Mhz range but still lacks the power performance IBM is able to get out of the G3.

All in all the G3 will out perform a G4 Mhz for Mhz in tasks that do not benefit from AltiVec.

well the 867 powerbook and 800 ibook benchmarks were pretty surprising in themselves. go to barefeats.

iJon

 

[beefstu01]

They may be coming soon, but not too soon.

Look here >> http://www.macprices.com/ibooktracker.shtml

Yeah, everybody's chock full of iBook stock. Sorry, it's not coming til' at least May.

 

[sedarby]

17" Update

Originally posted by redAPPLE
my 0.02 $...

drop the prices for the ibook. if Apple wants to differentiate between consumer and prosumer notebooks, the "MHZ" should show.

Wait until the 12" PB reaches 1GHZ before bringing out a 900 Mhz iBook. Then update both.

That would be the logical thing to do. Business-wise.

Only after the 17" PB is updated to 1+GHZ.

 

[MacForbes]

I think that the ibooks won't get updated to 970's anytime soon. I think they will be a chip behind again - so when the abooks are updated to 970's the ibooks will be updated to g4's. And as for having a faster ibook (900mhz) then the 12" abook (867mhz), I would think it unlikely. One would presume they would update the 12" powerbook to 900mhz too if the ibook was that speed, but maybe not. (There is always the g3 and g4 four factor I mean). Either way I'll be happy.

(And I hope that at least AE is added.)

 

[yzedf]

Originally posted by areyouwishing
sorry, i guess i should have clarified, I meant in a mobility sense.

I mean, I don't imagine a whole lot of people doing content creation that HAS to be altivec enhanced. Once again, I could be way off on this one.

I agree 100%. On the road, a "pro" level notebook isn't used for much, except for maybe simple stuff like powerpoint / keynote presentations. Any "real" processing of data is done in the office, on the desktop or servers. It is much more of a status thing than anything else.

Having recently sat thru 3 different presentations by software companies trying to sell a complete software solution for our import business, I can honestly say the best presentation was on a PII Dell laptop that could barely run Windows XP Pro and Office XP Pro. But we saw what the company was about, and it wsan't trying to show us that our money was being used to buy the latest $4000 laptop, but rather towards a real product, with intelligence to back it up.

My point is, Apple does not seem to have a real product. They try to show me that the "pro" series is worth 30% or more of their "consumer" line, but there is nothing to back it up. And then you have the PB 12" which is the bastard child of the PB line. It has the G4, and the new Al look, but nothing else that screams "pro" to me. I think people are tending to agree, judging by how quickly used ones were available on ebay. When I say available, I mean many to choose from, not 2 or 3.

I am tired of Apple telling me how smart they are, I want them to prove it. Either that, or stop selling sub-par hardware and finally make the switch *cough* to a software only company.

 

[deputy_doofy]

Originally posted by TMJ1974
Actually, if I've read correctly the IBM Sahara G3 (currently in the iBooks) already reaches speeds up to 2Ghz. It's Apple's choice not to use the higher end chips, all to make the PowerBook "look" better. Also, the Sahara can support a 200Mhz bus speed. Apple keeps it at 100Mhz, again for the sake of the PowerBook. It already has double the L2 cache, I'm surprised they haven't fooled with that.

The iBook can hold it's own in anything non-AltiVec according to test at some sites. If it weren't being held back, it would walk all over the PowerBook in alot of tasks. But that wouldn't "look" good would it ?

Tim

Well, based on a lot of things I've read, the G3 and G4 are very close in the benchmarks. The G4's main advantage is Altivec. While I don't know this to be 100% true, I've been hearing that the 970 is almost double the G4 at the same clock speed. This would mean that the 970 is also roughly double the G3 at the same clock speed.
That being the case, putting a 970 in the iBook with Altivec shut off would make the iBook a spectacular consumer system. Everything would be fast and would even allow the casual, novice videographer to do some work. The PowerBook with the full-powered 970 would benefit that much more, not only because of Altivec, but it would have the higher clocked 970's.
I see the point of G3s remaining in the iBook, but really, they might as well get the power of the new chip, with the new bus (900mhz vs. 200mhz vs 166mhz), and have some really powerful stuff. Just my opinion, however...

 

[areyouwishing]

Originally posted by TMJ1974
I appologize, I was incorrect, the Sahara can reach speeds of 1Ghz, somewhere I read 2Ghz, but the link below is from IBM. They would know best. The rest of my data was correct though...

Tim

You might have been thinking of this article, they talk about the PowerPC hitting 2ghz, but not specifically sahara.
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-257421.html?legacy=cnet

 

[PeteyKohut]

Originally posted by The Shadow

Bottom line, I reckon, is if Apple were to be worried about cannibalization, easily solved: put slower G4s in iBooks. As it stands, don't penalise iBook buyers with slower than necessary G3s.

I agree...I think it would be simpler to have the iBooks running on 600 and 700 Mhz G4's. Also, I would rather have a 600 G4 than a 900 Mhz G3, seeing as how OS X is sooo altivec savvy.

 

[PeteyKohut]

Originally posted by yzedf

I am tired of Apple telling me how smart they are, I want them to prove it. Either that, or stop selling sub-par hardware and finally make the switch *cough* to a software only company.

Sorry for posting back to back messages, but dude....that is just harsh!!!!!!

 

[Raiwong]

it would be interesting to point out that i've seen many people switch to a laptop fulltime because its so much more space saving and portable, now that they have finially shrunk to a attractive size.

I too am suprised that the cheaper 800mhz ibook can win the 12 inch PB in multiple tests. If indeed the ibook went 900mhz it beat the 12 inch even more and plus if apple DOES include a new graphic adapters that would essentially mean a goodbye to the 12 inch PB.

but the the 12 inch PB have a superdrive, an amature filmmaker like me really want one as printing VCDs in OSX is ridiculously annoying,

 

[eric67]

ibbok production is down

Dear all,

well I have the feeling that on that side of the atlantic you have missed a important info concerning the iBook. It was originally reported by hardware.fr then by macbidouille.com; but I think it will have a strong impact on iBook. here it is :
Asus (famous Pc motherboard manufacturer) has acquired on the 28 March from ECS the production plan located in Chungli, China. This plant was used by ECS to produce the iBook for Apple. The reason Asus acquired it is related to its plan to expand its capabilities for notebook production (simply double it).

So it seems quite clear to me that either the iBook is EOL soon, due to new line PBG4, or IBM is preparing an altivec-capable G3 if possible. Indeed, if Apple succeeded to push IBM to implement instruction set, aka Altivec / velocity engine into its coming PPC970, it points out to the future of MacOSX where we will definitely see more and more usage of Altivec; so this will also mean the end of non-capable altivec processor...

I do agree with all previous posting concerning the revamp iBook, only speed-bump would be cheap update, I mean not serious....Apple please get serious, either drop iBook, or make it more attractive or capable than 12'' Alu PBG4, drop its price, increase RAM, (but SODIMM RAM is getting more and more expensive due to production shift to DDR-RAM).
Thanks for reading
regards

 

[The Shadow]

G3 + Altivek = G5?

Originally posted by eric67
So it seems quite clear to me that either the iBook is EOL soon, due to new line PBG4, or IBM is preparing an altivec-capable G3 if possible.

Whoa dude! That's really interesting speculation.

Wouldn't be funny / ironic if this became true, and the new G3 + Altivec for the consumer line were named the "G5"?

Well it would appeal to my sense of humour anyway.

So then what are the going to call the Power 4 derivative 970? The P4? That would be funny too!

(Spare me some lame G6 comeback! Unfunny )

 

[.a]

...i just bought an ibook and today i installed 512 mb . i need it for presenting gfx-work and now it's just perfect... so what about 100mhz more, that's rediculous.
for sure there will be airport extreme and bluetooth integrated for the next revision. probably with ae card as standard. after intel announced the centrino and is forcing wireless mobility, apple has do be one step ahead again.
they could do it for the powerbook, too.
mobility and wireless are the keysolutions for laptops in the near future.
.a

 

[Rincewind42]

Re: ibbok production is down

Originally posted by eric67
IBM is preparing an altivec-capable G3 if possible.

G3+Altivec is basically the G4. The only real difference between the PPC 750 and the PPC7400 was the added Altivec Unit and the faster floating point unit. The biggest problem with the 7400 was probably that Motorola fabbed it .

 

[mstecker]

(on whether the introduction of the 12" and 17" PBooks substantially justified the "year of the laptop" tag:

Originally posted by reyesmac
Those two models didnt even get speedbumps, how can you say that they improved the platform in any big way? Those two models are not enough to justify the year of the laptop slogan.

Er, aren't you forgetting that they were introduced this year - the year of the laptop? Why would they need speed bumps when the JUST CAME OUT?

 

[2COOL4SCHOOL]

Originally posted by Thanatoast
I agree with QCassidy352 that Apple should skip the G4 altogether in the ibooks. Drop the 970s in the power lines. Keep the G4s in the imacs and push them as far as they'll go. And ramp up the G3s as far as they'll go in the ibooks.

Fix the ibooks first. Someone above said that Apple's laptop comptetitors aren't apple users, they're PC users, and I agree. If a multiple gigahertz ibook will pull people into the store, then do it. If they don't buy an albook, so what? They've just purchased a 2 gig ibook, and that's one more Apple laptop and one less PC laptop.

Crippling computers only results in crappy machines. Apple's customers already know this, which is why they're not buying as much as Apple would like. PC users don't know the difference anyway, so why not cater to them a little.

If everyone here could buy a new (split the difference) 1.5 gig ibook, would they? If your options were a 900 mhz ibook or a 1 gig albook, would you buy either? Building better machines will result in more sales than in building "differentiated" machines, IMO.

I say, gimme the most power at the best price you can. I won't buy an intentionally crippled 900 mhz ibook, unless there's a big price drop. I won't buy an 1 gig albook either, because the speed/price combo isn't there (vs PC). But put out a 1.5 gig ibook, and I'd start thinking real hard...

Totally