iMaps improvement via user input

[patent10021]

Since iMaps uses services like OpenStreetMaps how long do you think it will take for iMaps to become very good? I thought I'd post some screens since the list of services is interesting. I wonder if it has already improved since people have been using iMaps for a few days and the new iPhone 5 users are many. I'm thinking that unless Apple feels massive pressure to pay for Google Maps again even if it is short-term, they would want to keep it out of the iPhone to more quickly improve iMaps via user input. Maybe every day that passes iMaps is improving exponentially?

 

[steve-p]

I looked at OpenStreetMap some time ago when it became clear Apple were intending to use it. It's pretty crappy where I work and live. I want a map I can actually use and trust, not one I'm supposed to waste my time correcting.

 

[patent10021]

I looked at OpenStreetMap some time ago when it became clear Apple were intending to use it. It's pretty crappy where I work and live. I want a map I can actually use and trust, not one I'm supposed to waste my time correcting.

Totally agree. But since we are already the benefactors of these kindergarten maps, I wonder how long Apple thinks it will take with us pre-schoolers to get iMaps to a respectable state.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

I agree, user input is the best way to improve Apple Maps and here's how to do it from within the application itself

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1448604/

 

[matrix07]

I corrected some incorrect info. Now let's see how long before Apple put it in the map.

 

[patent10021]

I corrected some incorrect info. Now let's see how long before Apple put it in the map.

Isn't it supposed to be automatic? AI? Or do you need GIS/other editor?

EDIT: Ah I see. User report to Apple.

 

[matrix07]

Isn't it supposed to be automatic? AI?

No, I think it like App approval process. If it's automatic think about someone from Google messing with it trying to make it useless. And before anyone accusing me of accusing Google this already happened.

 

[Daveoc64]

You'll note that the legal pages say that Apple uses a lot of different sources for data.

I don't think that they're actually using OSM for plotting roads and road names on the map. It's more likely that they're using just a small part of the data (and likely only using it in some parts of the world).

There are a LOT of differences between OSM and Apple's Maps around here (really big ones too - like roads not being there in iOS Maps).

 

[emir]

i reported a wrong business that was closed years ago, i put in the new name of it. i did this last thursday when the gm came out, it's been 1.5 weeks, i reported the same place again yesterday.

there hasn't been any sort of feedback or correction, improvement what so ever.

 

[cynics]

Tomtom devices used a feature called mapshare on their device. You could report errors to tomtom.

The great part about it was on a Tomtom device since the maps were on the device you could actually change the map yourself. So things like wrong way on one way streets, blocked roads, wrong road names, etc could all be corrected so it doesn't try routing you that was. It was immediate. Even better you could set it to correct YOUR maps if a lot of users reported the same problems.

Since the maps on Apple aren't local you and you can't manually correct an error this can't be done with apple maps.

The turn around time for tomtom to officially correct an error was up to 2 years. I used a tomtom for 3 years and saw maybe 1 out of a hundred corrections become official in that amount of time.

Apple has their work cut out for them.

 

[Daveoc64]

The turn around time for tomtom to officially correct an error was up to 2 years. I used a tomtom for 3 years and saw maybe 1 out of a hundred corrections become official in that amount of time.

2 years is a little optimistic!

In my experience it takes TomTom far longer than that to update maps.

 

[cynics]

2 years is a little optimistic!

In my experience it takes TomTom far longer than that to update maps.

Well like I mentioned I only saw one correction of all I sent in. So you are right.

The problem is a correction has to be verified. If not I could just rename roads to my name lol.

 

[benthewraith]

i reported a wrong business that was closed years ago, i put in the new name of it. i did this last thursday when the gm came out, it's been 1.5 weeks, i reported the same place again yesterday.

there hasn't been any sort of feedback or correction, improvement what so ever.

Considering the number of improvements that are required, it may be some time.

 

[mw360]

Considering the number of improvements that are required, it may be some time.

This will be the true test. I've submitted about 20 changes, moving pins, spotting closed bars and cafes. There's no reason at all that it can't be automated by averaging user input and learning to trust reliable contributors. It clearly isn't though. I'm going to guess at 1-2 years before my changes are added. I'll resurrect this thread when it happens.

 

[matrix07]

This will be the true test. I've submitted about 20 changes, moving pins, spotting closed bars and cafes. There's no reason at all that it can't be automated by averaging user input and learning to trust reliable contributors. It clearly isn't though. I'm going to guess at 1-2 years before my changes are added. I'll resurrect this thread when it happens.

You know what? This should be what the media demand Apple to lay it all out for us. We know Apple takes 5 days to 2 weeks to approve app to the App Store. But how long for the correction process to take place, or even will Apple handle it themselves or let third party like Tom Tom do it?
Why do Scott not talking about this in the Keynote?

 

[Doombringer]

I think there was a figure recently released, stating how many people Google had working on their Maps. Roughly 7000, including regular employees and contractors or consultants. That's huge.

Apple has a long way to go. With Google's money and manpower, it's no wonder their maps are so good.

 

[matrix07]

I think there was a figure recently released, stating how many people Google had working on their Maps. Roughly 7000, including regular employees and contractors or consultants. That's huge.

Apple has a long way to go. With Google's money and manpower, it's no wonder their maps are so good.

Duh, think of it this way. If it takes Apple a few days at most to correct wrong informations people reported to will that mean Apple have thousands or ten thousands working for their map?

 

[DaffyDuck]

Apple is trying to take information from many sources and use an algorithm to merge them together. When you find something missing or incorrect, one of the sources may have the correct information but the algorithm is choosing to do the wrong thing. If the information in all sources is wrong, your submission will have to go to the source, like TomTom. So, they have to look through and find out if the integration software is the problem or incorrect information. If they manually correct data on their end, they can no longer easily pull updated info from TomTom or other sources.

Apple is trying to do something Google already tried and failed to do. If Google couldn't do it, I'm sorry to say Apple is unlikely to be able to do it either. If they want good maps they are going to have to hire lots of people. It'll be interesting to see how this works out.

 

[KnightWRX]

Duh, think of it this way. If it takes Apple a few days at most to correct wrong informations people reported to will that mean Apple have thousands or ten thousands working for their map?

No. Google also use crowd sourcing to correct their maps. Crowd-source reports do not count as employees. Google employs 7000 people, including field surveyors, on top of their crowd sourcing initiatives.

Automatizing maps is probably what got Apple into trouble in the first place, the last thing they want to do now is not having humans review changes and corrections. They need to go over their data integration procedures to make sure that when they merge datasets from their providers that they do not introduce errors (a lot of people have shown TomTom not to have the mistakes Apple Maps has using TomTom data...)

http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=399

Basically, Apple's got a lot to learn and a lot of catching up to do. Then there's the whole issue of their design choices making the maps less readable by not distinguishing roads from backgrounds and from other roads using contrasting colors, the traffic lines being only intermittent red dots rather than Google's superior thick green/yellow/red lines, mass transit information and walking directions, etc... etc...

 

[patent10021]

I think there was a figure recently released, stating how many people Google had working on their Maps. Roughly 7000, including regular employees and contractors or consultants. That's huge.

Apple has a long way to go. With Google's money and manpower, it's no wonder their maps are so good.

I was just about to mention that they have 7,100 staff dedicated to Google Maps. That's just for Google Maps. People flying planes, swinging in trees, riding bikes, driving cars, swimming across rivers, scuba diving in caves and shi_t. What does Apple have? A few babies and kittens sending in map reports by mistake when they're playing alphabet and piano apps.

I think this is going to be a long process for us Apple fans.

 

[GiantSteve]

I looked at OpenStreetMap some time ago when it became clear Apple were intending to use it. It's pretty crappy where I work and live. I want a map I can actually use and trust, not one I'm supposed to waste my time correcting.

Agreed. I just checked Open Street Map and my street which has been in place for at least 9 years is not shown.

 

[matrix07]

No. Google also use crowd sourcing to correct their maps. Crowd-source reports do not count as employees. Google employs 7000 people, including field surveyors, on top of their crowd sourcing initiatives.

One thing. It's really difficult to report anything on Google Map both on website or mobile. I never wanna try it once. But reporting on the new Map is very easy and you can do so on the spot. I think you underestimate Apple users. What is it again about mobile web-traffic statistic? Isn't iOS got up to 80% or something? Trust me it will be very different (to Google crowd-sourcing) if Apple can add reported data very quickly.

Automatizing maps is probably what got Apple into trouble in the first place, the last thing they want to do now is not having humans review changes and corrections. They need to go over their data integration procedures to make sure that when they merge datasets from their providers that they do not introduce errors (a lot of people have shown TomTom not to have the mistakes Apple Maps has using TomTom data...)

This I agree with. Crowd sourcing something as important as this is double-edge sword. Let's see where Apple Map stand in a year. Will it be slowly developed like SIRI or iCloud or faster like App Store?

 

[KnightWRX]

One thing. It's really difficult to report anything on Google Map both on website or mobile. I never wanna try it once. But reporting on the new Map is very easy and you can do so on the spot. I think you underestimate Apple users. What is it again about mobile web-traffic statistic? Isn't iOS got up to 80% or something? Trust me it will be very different (to Google crowd-sourcing) if Apple can add reported data very quickly.

It's not difficult to report anything to Google. You just don't understand how they "crowd-source" (hint, you don't have to do anything, Google are masters at data mining remember ).

Also, Google has quite a few initiatives Apple doesn't have, such as Google Map Maker :

http://www.google.com/mapmaker

So no, really, it's not that I'm underestimating Apple users, I am one. I think it's that you underestimate Google's efforts in all of this. Why ? I dunno.

For one, I will never report anything to Apple. I'm probably not in the minority here, I just don't care about their sub-par mapping enough and since I don't really use MapKit enabled applications, as soon as Google releases a native app, Apple Maps is going into my trash folder along with Stocks, Weather, Newstand and all the other crap.

 

[DaffyDuck]

Another thing about reporting is that they will have to verify each report to avoid malicious reports from businesses trying to get an upper hand on their competition. They could do so by requiring a certain threshold of reports but really they need an employee checking the veracity of each report.

 

[matrix07]

It's not difficult to report anything to Google. You just don't understand how they "crowd-source" (hint, you don't have to do anything, Google are masters at data mining remember ).

If you mean when i input thing into the map then no, I never do it because it's unintuitive. I only do a few on iOS map and that's because I always think Map is not for normal people from bad experience I got from Google Map website. It's not enjoyable.
But what I'm talking about is when you report incorrect informations. This I also never do on Google Map website. It already make me headache just to think of it. So yes, new Apple Map is so much easier to report things. If anything I think you may not understand average iPhone users.

For one, I will never report anything to Apple. I'm probably not in the minority here, I just don't care about their sub-par mapping enough and since I don't really use MapKit enabled applications, as soon as Google releases a native app, Apple Maps is going into my trash folder along with Stocks, Weather, Newstand and all the other crap.

I think if Apple can improve the time between data reported and data added greatly then you will be in minority. When what you do is easy you tend to do it again and again.