Is Apple digging their own grave for the iphone - please read the post first!

[ay98182]

Alan Moore once said (I'm paraphrasing) "readers don't know what they need, if they did, they would be writers".

That has been Apple's modus operandi from day one. They feel strongly that they know what people need (and their extraordinary success as a company proves that, for the most part, they are right), and they will do only as they see fit. They are also intelligent enough to realise that given the complex nature of the products that they release, they will not have foreseen every little detail - hence our ability to send them feedback, which, as the various iPhone software updates show, they listen to (albeit selectively).

As a result of this haughtiness, Apple will never be open with its customers. If you don't like that, then, as you said, vote with your wallet and go somewhere else. I can assure you, however, that most of us will stay right here. It is because of Apple's secrecy that we can get so excited about new products and why they can stay ahead of the game and release innovative technology.

I am happy to be patronised by Apple - in respect to technology - as long as they're a worthy patron. And I think that for the moment, and for all their faults, they really are more than worthy. I strongly disagree, for example, with their rejection of the Podcaster app (which I would find very useful), but there are too many positives in other areas for me to turn my back on them. And the alternatives are far too grim. If you are going to blame someone for the supposed lack of effort on Apple's part, then blame the inadequacy of the competition.

I believe that the problems with the iPhone occurred because Apple is over-stretching itself, what with its effort to provide hardware and software for desktops, laptops, mp3 players, a music download service, and now a mobile phone, whilst being on the cutting edge in every area. Of course this expansion is about making money, but what business isn't? They make a product and you hand over your hard-earned cash for it, if you think it's worth it - customers can easily gauge that worth for themselves: the iPhone's features are clearly advertised and Apple has never willfully lied about them (they never promised MMS or copy/paste, those are OUR expectations, and they may have been forced to delay push notifications, but they will be here soon). I for one am glad that Apple has turned its expertise to the mobile phone, finally providing me with a phone that I'm more happy with than not, and shaking up and improving the whole industry in the process.

I'm annoyed that it took them so long to fix the issues with the iPhone, but the 2.1 software shows that they are eager to rectify their mistakes. As others have been saying, it isn't always easy to fix software bugs, and it is vital to have a stable OS before adding new features.

btw, in case any of you haven't read it already, here's a link to a great article from Wired magazine about Apple's business practice:

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/16-04/bz_apple?currentPage=all

oh and as to the guy who said this:

When I took my 1st iPhone 3g in to Apple to look at it there was one guy ending his contract early, a woman sitting next to me complaining about her phone freezing and another 2 to 3 people waiting to be seen.

I'm sorry but what else were you expecting to see at a Genius REPAIR bar?? Every product has units that break down, and those of us who have a working iPhone and are happy with it won't be hanging around the Genius bar just for fun.

 

[Bye Bye Baby]

Interesting

Your post is both original and interesting. Alas the interesting parts are not original and the original parts aren't interesting.

Sorry, but you are one confused dude.

 

[Metzgermeister]

This is becoming a nice discussion. Mostly I have to disagree. Could-care-less-attitude? I think not. I think Apple reacts well to the users complaints. The released 2.1 which resolves a lot of issues. not all manufacturers are so generous with software updates.
I don't know any manufacturer which releases a product without any bugs. Nokia for example is known to have a lot of bugs as well (not all of them!!). At work I use a lot of HTC phones, the diamond for example. I would never spent my hard earned money on HTC. Nice to see but after a short while it's already failing and falling apart.
The next generation iPhone will have more features, I think that's normal. There is always the battery issue which has a limited capacity. more features also uses more battery life. At the next generation the battery will be stronger and the iPhones uses the energy more efficient.
The iPhone hype will not last forever, which is a good thing. Maybe next month Nokia introduces a phone which is superb, But Apple gave a big boost to the smartphone industry. Samung, Nokia, HTC are determined to make a better "iphone"

 

[Rigsby]

it's amazing how sucessfull a company can become by doing so little (other than invest millions in marketing campaigns and master the illusion of smoke and mirrors).

My phone is just smoke and mirrors? That explains the poor 3G signal/lack of cut and paste/poor battery life/my failure to attract the opposite sex/only one working speaker/etc.






Incidentally, I don't have a poor 3G signal. I've never had any problems with my phone. It is a superb device and I haven't regretted leaving the Palm platform for a second.

I'd been using Palm for something like 10 years, three of those as a smartphone user and it was central to the way I worked and to my business. I will not deny that the iPhone is different and some native features are missing, but I won't accept that the iPhone is fundamentally flawed or marks some transition from angel Apple to devil Apple. The iPhone is a stunning, sophisticated and eminently usable device that has transformed smartphones and, ultimately, made everyone's mobile/cellular life better.

I'm pleased with the way this thread has turned out, not because I'm an Apple fanboy, but because I'm thoroughly fed-up with the forum becoming nothing but a outlet for whiners, moaners and complainers.

 

[xraydoc]

Alan Moore once said (I'm paraphrasing) "readers don't know what they need, if they did, they would be writers".

That has been Apple's modus operandi from day one. They feel strongly that they know what people need (and their extraordinary success as a company proves that, for the most part, they are right), and they will do only as they see fit. They are also intelligent enough to realise that given the complex nature of the products that they release, they will not have foreseen every little detail - hence our ability to send them feedback, which, as the various iPhone software updates show, they listen to (albeit selectively).

As a result of this haughtiness, Apple will never be open with its customers. If you don't like that, then, as you said, vote with your wallet and go somewhere else. I can assure you, however, that most of us will stay right here. It is because of Apple's secrecy that we can get so excited about new products and why they can stay ahead of the game and release innovative technology.

I am happy to be patronised by Apple - in respect to technology - as long as they're a worthy patron. And I think that for the moment, and for all their faults, they really are more than worthy. I strongly disagree, for example, with their rejection of the Podcaster app (which I would find very useful), but there are too many positives in other areas for me to turn my back on them. And the alternatives are far too grim. If you are going to blame someone for the supposed lack of effort on Apple's part, then blame the inadequacy of the competition.

I believe that the problems with the iPhone occurred because Apple is over-stretching itself, what with its effort to provide hardware and software for desktops, laptops, mp3 players, a music download service, and now a mobile phone, whilst being on the cutting edge in every area. Of course this expansion is about making money, but what business isn't? They make a product and you hand over your hard-earned cash for it, if you think it's worth it - customers can easily gauge that worth for themselves: the iPhone's features are clearly advertised and Apple has never willfully lied about them (they never promised MMS or copy/paste, those are OUR expectations, and they may have been forced to delay push notifications, but they will be here soon). I for one am glad that Apple has turned its expertise to the mobile phone, finally providing me with a phone that I'm more happy with than not, and shaking up and improving the whole industry in the process.

I agree with a lot of this, however, I have my own, slightly derivative theory.

I think Apple will continue the way they are going - being somewhat patronizing to their own customers, until Steve Jobs steps down as CEO. I suspect the next CEO won't be quite so unreceptive to constructive criticism (and lets face it - anyone would be more receptive than Jobs).

I'm not eager for his retirement, but when it (eventually) happens, should Apple still exist in its current form, I think receptivity and openness will be more forthcoming.

 

[eye.surgeon]

 

[SFStateStudent]

Oh, are you talking about the Apple iPhone? I thought you were talking about AIG or WaMu...

 

[paulsalter]

I couldnt really answer the poll as I love my Apple products, but Apple as a company really annoy me

IMO, The issue people have with the iPhone are because Apple has tried to do so much at a time, MobileMe, iPhone 3G, Software updates, they need to slow down , get one thing working nicely and then move onto the next

As for them listening to what the customer wants, is this really the case

Did they really change the headphone jack on the 3G just because consumers wanted it ?

Why not implement other features people want ?

As an example, lets look at the repeat reminders for txts, why did Apple decide everyone wants to see multiple reminders, did some people request this, or did Apple decide this is best for all
Why no Notes/ToDo syncing, this seems to have been requested for a long time, but Apple decide that its not needed

On the plus side they do seem quick in sorting out bugs, but changes people request, not sure, it seems more a case of, we think you should have this, here it is

My impressions anyway, sorry if some of it is slightly off topic

 

[sunfast]

lack of attention for iphone? are you kidding? if anything it has had waaaaay too much

My thoughts exactly.

If they have been ignoring the iPhone, could the OP explain what he thinks Apple have been doing with their time?

 

[Randman]

 

[tony-in-japan]

To the OP...

Bye.

Enjoy your non-Apple future life... Oh, you’re not leaving? Just ranting that more time, resources and attention to detail should be given to the iPhone???

I think the problem here is simply a lack of perspective and gratitude.

 

[Rybold]

After the first iPhone, they upgraded it to 3G, added GPS, 2.0 Firmware, the App Store and upgraded the case from radio-interfering metal to non-interfering plastic. The App Store generates huge revenue, as does the iTunes store from iPhone downloads. When 2.0 came out there were a few flaws (keyboard lag, contacts lag, etc), and Apple saw these problems, fixed them, and released a 2.1 software update.

Based on what Apple has been doing and is currently doing, they care about the iPhone, and they care a lot about the iPhone!

 

[Aurial]

Bye.

Enjoy your non-Apple future life... Oh, you’re not leaving? Just ranting that more time, resources and attention to detail should be given to the iPhone???

I think the problem here is simply a lack of perspective and gratitude.

what's he meant to be grateful for? He's probably paid a lot of money two months ago for a phone which is only just becoming stable now. It should never have been released in that state. You can go on about other manufacturers having bugs until you're blue in the face but I've never bought a phone with so many serious bugs before.

You can tell me that Apple have been great because they've release three software updates in that time, but if they'd done the job properly in the first place then they wouldn't have needed to.

 

[cellocello]

what's he meant to be grateful for? He's probably paid a lot of money two months ago for a phone which is only just becoming stable now. It should never have been released in that state. You can go on about other manufacturers having bugs until you're blue in the face but I've never bought a phone with so many serious bugs before.

You can tell me that Apple have been great because they've release three software updates in that time, but if they'd done the job properly in the first place then they wouldn't have needed to.

What are these miracles products people are buying, that are leagues ahead of the iPhone?

I don't know about you, but I've bought many things for way more money that have given me way more headaches than the iPhone does or has.

But, please, enlighten us - What phone manufacturer(s) have "done the job properly" and released a bonkers nigh-flawless problem-free multi-function phone right out the gate?

 

[neilp4453]

The iphone/ipod touch has the same problem that has plagued every other handheld Apple has made. Lack of support for other types of formats.

Other than that, it has everything else. A lot of the WM Smart Phones, however, will eventually catch up and improve on what Apple is up doing. I am sure Apple will never allow support for these things so eventually, they will fail.

 

[TheSpaz]

Even with the iPhone's flaws... it's still the best DAMN phone I've ever used from any company. The interface is well-designed and it's a fun experience to use. I've never before used a phone and thought... wow, this is fun. I used to actually hate cell phones, but the iPhone isn't a cell phone... it's a wonderful portable mini computer that fits in your pocket and it can make phone calls too... that's just really, really cool. Also, the fact that the screen can change depending on which app you're using really makes the best use of the iPhone's size and I love how there's only on button on the front.

Edit: If there's a phone better than the iPhone... I'd like to see it. Also, I have a lot of faith in Apple products because they make me happy and what makes me happy is what makes the difference. My girlfriend has always been a PC user and when she got her brand new Acer laptop she was very happy... UNTIL she started dating me and got to use my Mac Pro. She loves it and now wishes she never got that stupid Acer laptop. She loves how much easier everything is to do on the Mac and how it's always running and never needs virus protection. She has since got an iPod touch and she's only had very few complaints about it. She wants a MacBook really really badly for school though... her 2-year-old Acer randomly shuts down and won't turn back on unless she takes the battery out and puts it back in.

My brother has my old PowerBook G4 that is 5 years old and it still runs like it did the day I got it.

 

[ryanwarsaw]

If an equally usable phone came out in the future and was more open and unlocked I would jump ship. Why wouldn't I? I think the frustration some people are having is that they don't really like Apple's approach as a company but there is nothing comparable to go to right now.

 

[DravenGSX]

Lack of attention?

There have been three updates to the 3G since July 11th. Three updates in two months.

There have been numerous instances where Steve Jobs himself has replied to emails from customers. I've not heard of this happening with any other Fortune 500 company.. ever. Hell, as an employee of a large telecom, I can't get a response from my VP let alone the CEO.

The missing features are minor and were known about well before anybody purchased the phone. No copy and paste, big deal. No MMS, that's what email is for. I'm sure Apple is sorry that you can't send dirty pics to your mistress over MMS. Really.

I haven't had a single headache with my phone... and it's been jailbroken since the first week of ownership. I can deal with waiting 3 seconds for contacts to come up. They fixed the keyboard lag which was my only complaint.. and they fixed it quickly.

I don't think you realize what you actually have in that pocket of yours. For $299, it's the best bang for my money. Period.

 

[paulsalter]

I haven't had a single headache with my phone...

And so ends the thread, you are happy so it dosnt matter that other people have issues

 

[DravenGSX]

And so ends the thread, you are happy so it dosnt matter that other people have issues

No. The point was that people are being picky and the notion that Apple is not paying any attention is completely bogus... as was evidenced by THREE updates in two months!

If there is a better alternative for you or anybody else, then by all means go out and buy it. Return your iPhone, cancel your AT&T contract and live the rest of your life with a stupid grin on your face. It doesn't impact the rest of us.

You can't please all of the people, all of the time. And then "there's some men you just can't reach..."

 

[macaco74]

I joined the apple family recently - my experience, with the iphone and other devices, has been very positive...better than any experience I have had elsewhere.

 

[paulsalter]

No. The point was that people are being picky and the notion that Apple is not paying any attention is completely bogus... as was evidenced by THREE updates in two months!

If there is a better alternative for you or anybody else, then by all means go out and buy it. Return your iPhone, cancel your AT&T contract and live the rest of your life with a stupid grin on your face. It doesn't impact the rest of us.

You can't please all of the people, all of the time. And then "there's some men you just can't reach..."

Why is it picky to buy a phone for £160 then pay £35/month and expect it to work ?, should I just say, oh its Apple, they will get around to it, I will just accept the problems
As I said earlier in the thread, Apple seems to be bringing out too many things at the moment and there are problems
iPhone Issues ?
MobileMe Launch ?

Why should I look for an alternative, I like the iPhone, and as I have had issues with it (mainly ok now) , then I will talk about these issues

 

[DravenGSX]

Why is it picky to buy a phone for £160 then pay £35/month and expect it to work ?, should I just say, oh its Apple, they will get around to it, I will just accept the problems
As I said earlier in the thread, Apple seems to be bringing out too many things at the moment and there are problems
iPhone Issues ?
MobileMe Launch ?

Why should I look for an alternative, I like the iPhone, and as I have had issues with it (mainly ok now) , then I will talk about these issues

What doesn't work? Does it make telephone calls? Yes. Does it Surf the web with a more capable browser than any other cell phone? Yes. Does it receive push email? Yes. Does it play MP3s? Yup. How about movies? You bet. Can you send SMS messages? Yupper-do. What functionality was promised to you before you bought it that isn't there?

I can't speak about MobileMe because I don't use it. Perhaps you have a valid reason to be aggravated.

That said, if you have a problem, sure you should talk about it. Tell Apple, tell your friends, tell macrumors. But ranting about not getting any attention is asinine.

 

[Evev12]

Lack of attention?

There have been three updates to the 3G since July 11th. Three updates in two months.

There have been numerous instances where Steve Jobs himself has replied to emails from customers. I've not heard of this happening with any other Fortune 500 company.. ever. Hell, as an employee of a large telecom, I can't get a response from my VP let alone the CEO.

The missing features are minor and were known about well before anybody purchased the phone. No copy and paste, big deal. No MMS, that's what email is for. I'm sure Apple is sorry that you can't send dirty pics to your mistress over MMS. Really.

I haven't had a single headache with my phone... and it's been jailbroken since the first week of ownership. I can deal with waiting 3 seconds for contacts to come up. They fixed the keyboard lag which was my only complaint.. and they fixed it quickly.

I don't think you realize what you actually have in that pocket of yours. For $299, it's the best bang for my money. Period.

As far as the updates are concerned, these forums were filled with unhappy customers because of all the bugs that plagued it - those updates were necessary - if they weren't released when they were, everybody would have started returning their phones. They wanted to make sure they had something out within their 30 day return period to improve it little by little so that we stuck with them. Let's face it, the phone should have never been released the way it was. Grant it, almost all electronic devices are buggy when first released, but we were constatly being referred to as iphone's beta testers for the first 2 months. And the fact that your phone is jailbroken means we're not even comparing the same phones. Jailbreaking it opens it up to a whole new level - why else would you have voided your warranty, you must have been unhappy with the core product.

I know I've said it a number of times but I haven't said it in this thread yet, so let me clarify myself - I like my iphone, I like it alot! I've always said the iphone is a formula one car that could do 260 but is cruising along at 60 (maybe 100 when jailbroken) because of Apple's marketing strategies. I've already voiced my numerous problems with them, so there's no need to get into it again.

Ryanwarsaw hit it on the head. And the fact that there are no other solid alternatives at the moment is why the phone is where it is. It bothers me that, as much as I like my phone and as fun as it is to use, among other things, I have to walk around with wires hanging out of my ears if I want to use a headset that will also play music. Common' we should have had that from day 1. And it bothers me more that Apple will implement youtube and a scientific calculator before simply adding the basic features, and they refuse to give us any explinations at all. With them it's more about the icing on the cake than the actual cake itself. And I've read a lot of your posts as well, in which many of you have posted your concerns/dislikes a number of times too, so the last thing I want to hear is I'm just complaining. I'm logically addressing my concerns - and if anyone's incapable of replying with a logical answer, PLEASE don't reply at all, you're just unecessary clutter.

What I'm really trying to get at is, IF when the next new phone is released Apple does feel threatened and gives us everything that the phone's been missing AND the phone is still just about as stable as it is now, how would you feel. At that point it would be obvious proof that they've been holding out on us. I really can't imagine that everybody would be alright with it like the poll suggests. Even the fanboys would have to be angry - quite possibly the most angry. I personally would leave Apple and wouldn't return as a customer. At that point I'd feel cheated and would finally have confirmation that they're a dirty tactic company. From the looks of it though the majority of you disagree - THAT I can't understand. Maybe my original post was just a bit too agressive and people became defensive.

 

[DravenGSX]

As far as the updates are concerned, these forums were filled with unhappy customers because of all the bugs that plagued it - those updates were necessary - if they weren't released when they were, everybody would have started returning their phones. They wanted to make sure they had something out within their 30 day return period to improve it little by little so that we stuck with them. Let's face it, the phone should have never been released the way it was. Grant it, almost all electronic devices are buggy when first released, but we were constatly being referred to as iphone's beta testers for the first 2 months. And the fact that your phone is jailbroken means we're not even comparing the same phones. Jailbreaking it opens it up to a whole new level - why else would you have voided your warranty, you must have been unhappy with the core product.

I didn't jailbreak it because I was unhappy with it in it's virgin form. I love the device either way. I jailbroke because there is so much more to this phone than Apple gives us from the start. Their reasoning for this is very sound. The changes that are made via the jailbreak really open the device up to be misused and unstable. They limit our access to the device to ensure that we don't break it. As frustrating as the "sandbox" rules may be, it makes perfect sense to not allow third party developers to modify or access other system components.

I know I've said it a number of times but I haven't said it in this thread yet, so let me clarify myself - I like my iphone, I like it alot! I've always said the iphone is a formula one car that could do 260 but is cruising along at 60 (maybe 100 when jailbroken) because of Apple's marketing strategies. I've already voiced my numerous problems with them, so there's no need to get into it again.

I agree with this, but I don't think it's because of Apple's marketing strategies. I believe it's due to the need to have a stable device for 99% of the user community. There are a very small number of us that will actually take advantage of the added functionality that a jailbreak provides us.

And I've read a lot of your posts as well, in which many of you have posted your concerns/dislikes a number of times too, so the last thing I want to hear is I'm just complaining. I'm logically addressing my concerns - and if anyone's incapable of replying with a logical answer, PLEASE don't reply at all, you're just unecessary clutter.

I have posted about bugs that I have encountered, sure. I posted them in the hopes that things would get back to apple and bugs would be corrected. And, for the most part they have been. I believe my response to you was plenty logical. Your original post was irrational and overly dramatic and I responded to those aspects. My post was not about functionality as much as it was about the statement you made about Apple not paying attention. In my opinion, that's just crazy.

What I'm really trying to get at is, IF when the next new phone is released Apple does feel threatened and gives us everything that the phone's been missing AND the phone is still just about as stable as it is now, how would you feel. At that point it would be obvious proof that they've been holding out on us. I really can't imagine that everybody would be alright with it like the poll suggests. Even the fanboys would have to be angry - quite possibly the most angry. I personally would leave Apple and wouldn't return as a customer. At that point I'd feel cheated and would finally have confirmation that they're a dirty tactic company. From the looks of it though the majority of you disagree - THAT I can't understand. Maybe my original post was just a bit too agressive and people became defensive.

I personally don't feel that the phone is missing any functionality that I would make use of (that can't be done with a jailbreak). So, no I wouldn't be particularly upset if Apple finally included copy and paste or MMS or Bluetooth file transfer, etc. Perhaps I'll notice something that's missing eventually, but if it wasn't advertised as being included, I don't see how I could be upset about it.