It's insulting that OSX is receiving iPhone features rather than the other way around

[ucfgrad93]

If it makes you sick, get an android.

Not everything made by Apple suits everybody's needs.

While most people would do that, that is not how the OP and a few others here like to do things. They just want to find every little thing that doesn't suit their needs and whine and complain endlessly about it instead of fixing the issue by moving on.

How about not having an ill-created poll... Seriously look at the options, neither would I select. How about not having loaded options and getting over it already...

This is not unusual for the OP.

Take the hint, Apple is just not that into you.

It's time to move on,

Agreed. But sadly the OP won't.

This is a badly constructed poll. It's like asking, "Do you think Newt Gingrich/Barack Obama/George Washington/etc. is more like a)a child molester or b)a rapist?"
Come up with a real poll that isn't so biased

Again, this is not an unusal occurance for the OP.

 

[Calidude]

You're right, iOS has gained nothing from OS X.

Except maybe the kernel. And the web browser. The iCloud infrastructure which has to run on a server platform. The core image rendering functionality. The fact that everything from Apps to iBooks require a Mac to even exist.

Naw, iOS has gotten nothing from OS X...

Nice strawman there. These all come with an OS being based off another OS. This point was pretty much irrelevant since nobody said iOS isn't based off of or gained nothing from OSX.

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Filesystems are on their way out.

Even though Apple pretty much made your phone a filesystem for apps...complete with folders!

----------

While most people would do that, that is not how the OP and a few others here like to do things. They just want to find every little thing that doesn't suit their needs and whine and complain endlessly about it instead of fixing the issue by moving on.

Fixing the issue by moving on? Really? So the issue is not that Apple is dumbing down our computing devices but rather the issue is that we dare complain about it?

 

[DavoteK]

So the issue is not that Apple is dumbing down our computing devices but rather the issue is that we dare complain about it?

Perhaps you are too intelligent now for OSX/Apple in general. Winrumours beckons, enjoy

 

[scaredpoet]

Nice strawman there. These all come with an OS being based off another OS.

How can it be a straw man? You just admitted in your accusation that the very core of iOS couldn't exist without OS X.

This point was pretty much irrelevant since nobody said iOS isn't based off of or gained nothing from OS X.

So your argument is, you feel "insulted" because it's your opinion that the pretty baubles being gained from iOS are more important and significant than core elements that make the system run at all, and because you personally don't care about the core things, and the pretty baubles you're obsessing over appear to be coming more from the iOS side, that offends you?

Fixing the issue by moving on? Really?

Yeah, really. Unless you have enough money to buy a sizable stake in Apple, get control of the board, and demand that the development teams makes our iPhones look more like Macs, that's pretty much the only way you're going to effect change.

What would you suggest? Making polls on forums? I wonder how many times that's influenced Apple and made them change course in a fundamental way.

Oh, right. Zero.

So the issue is not that Apple is dumbing down our computing devices but rather the issue is that we dare complain about it?

It's fine to complain about it. But if you don't back up your complaints with actions, then it's just noise. The simple fact is that Apple sees the millions of devices being sold, the money it's putting in their coffers, and is the only company making desktop systems that has managed to grow its sales in spite of the tablet onslaught. And they presume that these things probably mean they're going in the right direction, and by inference will likely think that maybe should continue to pursue the path they're on. As long as people continue to buy Apple's wares, they're going to continue making them this way.

But as any Android fan will tell you, choice is a great thing. If you really hate the way Apple is doing things, you are fortunate in that they actually have a relatively small (though growing) market share in the desktop market, and there are at least two other major platforms to choose from. Likewise (and again, as any Android fan will tell you), Apple doesn't have a majority lock on the mobile device market either, and there are at least five platforms to choose from. Perhaps if OS X and iOS stop suiting your needs, one of the other platforms will do a better job of it, and you should switch. Who knows? If enough people do it, Apple might scratch their heads at their dwindling sales and wonder if maybe they have this thing all wrong, and that Calidude guy from macrumors had it right.

(I kinda doubt it, though. But that's just my opinion.)

 

[Interstella5555]

So...you don't want to choose the default browser, text editor, etc on your phone? Really?

You don't want to upload from a web browser on your phone either I take it and just hope "there's an app" for what you need to upload?

I can go on and on and on...

Please don't, everyone's embarrassed enough for you already.

 

[VulchR]

So...you don't want to choose the default browser, text editor, etc on your phone? Really?

You don't want to upload from a web browser on your phone either I take it and just hope "there's an app" for what you need to upload?

I can go on and on and on...

Since this quote was a response to my post, I'll answer. I agree wholeheartedly that I would like those things on an iPad. I am far, far less convinced about the case for having them on the iPhone, although I would always welcome improving the current apps for these functions.

I do agree with you to the extent that I do not want to see Apple's desktop changes marking the end of personal desktop computing. Humans have fought hard to be free of mainframes and centrally dominated IT systems. For instance, while I can see the need for obligatory sandboxing on the iPhone because Apple knows what you are likely to want to achieve with the device, the same does not apply for desktop systems, for the variety of tasks for which people use desktops makes it impossible for Apple to anticipate every need. It is better to let the user control all aspects of the desktop system.

 

[mrsir2009]

Well, iOS was based on OSX

 

[lordofthereef]

If it makes you sick, get an android.

Not everything made by Apple suits everybody's needs.

WHy is this ALWAYS the response a person gets if they don't see Apple in rose colored glasses 100% of the time? Obviously he doesn't want an Android and is just disappointed that we aren't getting more OSX features. Is that really so wrong of him to come out and say?

 

[boshii]

WHy is this ALWAYS the response a person gets if they don't see Apple in rose colored glasses 100% of the time? Obviously he doesn't want an Android and is just disappointed that we aren't getting more OSX features. Is that really so wrong of him to come out and say?

I suggest he try android because it has the features that are important to him.

Why buy a phone that lacks the features you want then complain about it?

 

[The Phazer]

Filesystems are on their way out.

They'll never go away fully...after all, its how any system (including iOS) is run

The loss of the file system is a disaster for the average user.

File systems are not on the way out. They are better for any user than any alternative so far.

They're being hidden however, made unnecessary for all but the people designing things. Your average consumer doesn't need them, and doesn't understand them.

Rubbish.

Look at lion/mountain lion, and even look at windows 8. Both apple and Microsoft realize that's the way things are moving.

Huh? Lion is a *disaster* usability wise. Really, the file system changes in Lion are as popular as syphilis, and have very signifcantly increased the pain in the ass that is moving the vast majority of novice users from Windows to OSX. If Apple weren't forcing Lion adoption with lack of hardware drivers, destroying MobileMe and shipping all new Macs with it then it would have failed totally due to it's file system changes. Windows 8 has a complete and full file system, even in Metro.

this is already possible to an extent, and will become moreso, but it isn't being done in the traditional way (not wit ha "file system").

The reality is that iOS already has file systems. Dozens of file systems. All of which are useless for some things and have an inconsistent UI from app to app. And you really think this is better? That every app might react differently when presenting you with a file list - swiping might send the file somewhere else, or delete it, or send it to everyone in your address book, and there is no consistency to this whatsoever.

You really think that's better than a file system? Let's just look at the epic fail that is not being able to attach a photo to a pre-written mail in iOS. That's better for novice users? Really??? How many times do we see new iOS users come on to this board and ask because they think they're being stupid?

Users want to move things between apps, but they don't want to figure out where the files are stored and move them themselves.

Nope, this is nonsense. There's actually not much reason to move things between apps at all. What users want to do is precisely move things themselves. That's pretty much the entire purpose of computing. Users want to send their pictures to people. Or share them with the world. And they will pick thousands of different ways to do it and iOS is really failing to keep track with them.

This is the point of share sheets in ios apps (and why they're being brought to ML). An app tells the system what types of files it can take. Then, whenever you have a file open you want somewhere else, you hit the share sheet button, choose what app you want it in, and boom, it's there. No saving, finding the file, opening the other app, dragging, and droppin. No opening the new app, hitting open, and navigating through the file system to the file you want

Unless the app developer hasn't thought of the other app it might want to pass it over to. Or just hasn't updated it for a year. Then you're completely screwed.

It allows all the same things, but it is a whole lot easier. I don't know why everyone is complaining about it.

Does it allow all the same things? Okay then: use your share sheet solution to...

Upload a photograph you've taken yourself to a web forum where Apple doesn't like the content enough to allow an app (say, because it features content too rude for a Victorian era sexual morality).

Copy an answer phone message from the iPhone to your new, non-Apple phone if you've decided you don't like iOS any more (I had this happen to a girl I knew who rang me in floods of tears as her iPhone had a broken screen, she could only afford to replace it with an Android handset, and she had an answer phone message that was the last recording she had of her recently deceased mother. And what was the answer? Apple's "better" way is that you should lose that, unless you're able to find someone techy like me to jailbreak the device and get file system access to it).

Phazer

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I suggest he try android because it has the features that are important to him.

Why buy a phone that lacks the features you want then complain about it?

The alternatives might also lack features that are important to him.

There's also the minor matter that getting data that's imporant to him off his iOS device and on to another platform is made much harder by the lack of a file system...

Phazer

 

[lordofthereef]

I suggest he try android because it has the features that are important to him.

Why buy a phone that lacks the features you want then complain about it?

You are making the assumption that there are no features in iOS that are also important to him. I assume this isn't the case, else he would not be on iOS. Also, not everyone has the luxury of being able to just drop whatever device they currently own and buy a new one. Not so long ago I was one of those people that had to live with whatever phone I picked for two years.

FWIW, I would recommend jailbreaking before jumping to Android. It will also get him all the features he says he wants, without the hassle of having to change operating systems.

 

[The Phazer]

I would also agree, though there are still issues, jailbreaking is getting more difficult, and it has negative consequences (for example, SkyGo users on the iPad have found today that they are blocked from using the service if jailbroken due to piracy concerns).

Let's not forget, while jailbreaking is legal in the US, that is not neccessarily the case in every country. Nor is the US provision permanent, and Apple opposes it's renewal.

The best case is indeed to complain at Apple, hope they change it, and bring publicity by moaning about it on forums and see if the press picks it up eventually.

Phazer

 

[scaredpoet]

WHy is this ALWAYS the response a person gets if they don't see Apple in rose colored glasses 100% of the time?

Because that's the only practical solution to his problem? What do YOU suggest?

Obviously he doesn't want an Android and is just disappointed that we aren't getting more OSX features. Is that really so wrong of him to come out and say?

He can say it, and others can either agree or disagree, and make our opinions known too. That's how forums work. It's not radio or TV, where someone can say something and everyone else stays mute.

 

[lordofthereef]

Because that's the only practical solution to his problem? What do YOU suggest?

My suggestion was jailbreaking, as is seen a post or two down. My point is, if all you say is "get an android then", how on earth is that helpful? IMO it is not, and that is what I am doing too, giving my opinion.

 

[Calidude]

How can it be a straw man? You just admitted in your accusation that the very core of iOS couldn't exist without OS X.

That's irrelevant. Of COURSE you have the core of the OS, but its the features that are important. I'm not sure why you guys keep saying this argument because frankly, it doesn't matter that its based on the core. If you gave me an Android phone with an OS based on the Linux Kernel that couldn't do anything Linux does, does it matter that it came from the same core? No.

So your argument is, you feel "insulted" because it's your opinion that the pretty baubles being gained from iOS are more important and significant than core elements that make the system run at all, and because you personally don't care about the core things, and the pretty baubles you're obsessing over appear to be coming more from the iOS side, that offends you?

I'm insulted that a mobile OS based on a desktop OS still doesn't have the basic features of that desktop OS after 5 years. We should all be able to choose our default browser, put our files all in one place, etc. This is nothing but a purposeful dumbing down of a computing device. It is an insult to our intelligence, and I frankly don't know how Apple users who call themselves intelligent would be perfectly content with iOS's featureset. The speed, stability, and beauty is there, but the functionality isn't, and you all know it.

What would you suggest? Making polls on forums? I wonder how many times that's influenced Apple and made them change course in a fundamental way.

Oh, right. Zero.


It's fine to complain about it.

Fine to complain about it, but polls that complain aren't fine, huh? Yeah. Contradict yourself much?

Perhaps if OS X and iOS stop suiting your needs, one of the other platforms will do a better job of it, and you should switch.

Only smart thing you said in this post. I'll switch when the dumbing down gets worse. Right now, its just tolerable.

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You are making the assumption that there are no features in iOS that are also important to him. I assume this isn't the case, else he would not be on iOS. Also, not everyone has the luxury of being able to just drop whatever device they currently own and buy a new one. Not so long ago I was one of those people that had to live with whatever phone I picked for two years.

FWIW, I would recommend jailbreaking before jumping to Android. It will also get him all the features he says he wants, without the hassle of having to change operating systems.

I jailbreak. I just think I shouldn't have to.

 

[lordofthereef]

I'm insulted that a mobile OS based on a desktop OS still doesn't have the basic features of that desktop OS after 5 years. We should all be able to choose our default browser, put our files all in one place, etc. This is nothing but a purposeful dumbing down of a computing device. It is an insult to our intelligence, and I frankly don't know how Apple users who call themselves intelligent would be perfectly content with iOS's featureset. The speed, stability, and beauty is there, but the functionality isn't, and you all know it.

I feel this way, exactly. I am more computer literate than the average Joe, but much less than those that make a living of it. I can pretty safely say that iOS would not have been suitable for my needs, sans-jailbreak, for the past 2-3 years now. I don't "switch" to Android because I use both, One for work, and one for play (private line). Haven't delved into the windows phone 7 yet, though.

 

[Planey28]

The one thing I don't like about Apple's new strategy is the closed system. It's coming to the end of open computing, we're heading into a PC era where software is moderated, you have to follow the rules, your software can't do certain things because Apple/Microsoft don't want it to. Everything has to be sandboxed.

We can't even customise iOS, apart from changing a few settings, the wallpaper and the icon arrangement.

Sure, today we're just getting 'Gatekeeper', but I'm betting one day it will become Mac App Store only. Apple can say Gatekeeper is for security all they want, but I'm betting that 30% cut they get from every app sale played a part in it's invention. Mac OS X was pretty damn secure as it was.

It looks like Microsoft want to follow this closed system model as well, look at Windows 8. Both companies want everything to be controlled and dictated by them.

Pretty ironic since Apple claimed to be freeing us from Big Brother in the 80s, and that is what they're becoming with their closed system.

 

[lordofthereef]

The one thing I don't like about Apple's new strategy is the closed system. It's coming to the end of open computing, we're heading into a PC era where software is moderated, you have to follow the rules, your software can't do certain things because Apple/Microsoft don't want it to. Everything has to be sandboxed.

We can't even customise iOS, apart from changing a few settings, the wallpaper and the icon arrangement.

Sure, today we're just getting 'Gatekeeper', but I'm betting one day it will become Mac App Store only. Apple can say Gatekeeper is for security all they want, but I'm betting that 30% cut they get from every app sale played a part in it's invention. Mac OS X was pretty damn secure as it was.

It looks like Microsoft want to follow this closed system model as well, look at Windows 8. Both companies want everything to be controlled and dictated by them.

Pretty ironic since Apple claimed to be freeing us from Big Brother in the 80s, and that is what they're becoming with their closed system.

I think you are spot on, and I think what it will take is for someone to challenge them, legally, for things to be free. In that sense, I admire Android. It honestly is, what Apple claimed to be, in that iconic commercial you reference.

 

[Calidude]

Pretty ironic since Apple claimed to be freeing us from Big Brother in the 80s, and that is what they're becoming with their closed system.

"Think different" seems to mean "think the way we want you to think".

 

[scaredpoet]

My suggestion was jail breaking,

Jailbreaking allows customization, and if that's all he wants, then fine. But the OP's original argument was that he was angry that Apple is adding iOS features to the Mac, and not the other way around. You can jailbreak your iPhone, but you can't jailbreak Apple itself.

 

[alFR]

The loss of the file system is a disaster for the average user.

I don't really know about that. If I look at most of the computers owned by people I know who aren't techy, I see very little organised use of a filesystem at all. Most of them keep most of their files and folders on their desktop and a lot of them struggle to find things when they need to. Because of that I think that most non-techy users could do with a simpler alternative: whether Apple's implementation of that is going to work remains to be seen. You have to give them some credit for thinking about it, anyway: Microsoft equally deserve some credit for their thinking about Metro, which I actually really like (on the Xbox at least).

If Apple weren't forcing Lion adoption with lack of hardware drivers, destroying MobileMe and shipping all new Macs with it then it would have failed totally due to it's file system changes.

Really? I use a Mac every day, all day, for work and I really don't see too much difference. Maybe the stuff I do doesn't require as many "Save as..." instances as some other people's use though: I don't do multiple saves of versions of image files, for example.

Unless the app developer hasn't thought of the other app it might want to pass it over to.

I don't think that's the way it will work: I think that apps will advertise themselves to the system as being able to accept certain file types, so it won't be up to individual apps to search for other apps that can accept the item. You are right that apps will need to be updated to take advantage of that "advertising" feature though.

Copy an answer phone message from the iPhone to your new, non-Apple phone if you've decided you don't like iOS any more (I had this happen to a girl I knew who rang me in floods of tears as her iPhone had a broken screen, she could only afford to replace it with an Android handset, and she had an answer phone message that was the last recording she had of her recently deceased mother. And what was the answer? Apple's "better" way is that you should lose that, unless you're able to find someone techy like me to jailbreak the device and get file system access to it).

I think that is, to coin a phrase, an "edge case". I don't know if you can do that with an Android handset, but you certainly couldn't do it with any dumb phone I ever owned either. One could, of course, use a 3.5mm - 3.5mm lead to connect the headphone port to a recording device and play the message back, thereby transferring it off the device with no need to jailbreak or mess with files.

One thing's for certain, there are interesting times ahead as Apple and Microsoft rethink the desktop metaphor. It's unlikely either will get it right straight away, but I think it'll turn out OK in the end.

 

[mrochester]

You shouldn't have to look for the app for each file. People don't open up Word to open up a file. They look in the folder they saved it on and its nearly always the same one as the rest of their files. The rest of us actually have specific folders for certain files, etc.

This is a difference I see everyday at work. The vast majority of my colleagues (normal, everyday people who probably know the average amount about technology) will open a Word file by first opening Word, and then going to file, open. They don't browse through my computer for the files they want. This is exactly the approach Apple are going for. Basically Apple are saying that there is no need for the user to micro manage files and folders because every file that you need access to can be accessed from the program that file is associated with, regardless of where on the device the file is actually stored. This is also the way OSX is going. Files, folders and file systems are legacy systems. Apple are trying to move away from that concept. I think if you don't like the idea of these legacy concepts being phased out, you're very much on the wrong platform since Apple are renowned for sweeping away old tech quite quickly and brutally.

 

[0000757]

Apple putting iOS features into Mac OS is just feeding the "Mac is for noobs" trolls.

--------

I'm okay with having Messages, I'm okay with having iPad-inspired "Notes", "Calendar", "Reminders" programs, and I'm really okay with AirPlay Mirroring.

What I can't stand is a full implication of iOS on a desktop machine. If I wanted to use iOS I would have gotten an IPAD, not a MACBOOK PRO. Apple is forgetting that, when most people buy a desktop computer, they want desktop functionality. Microsoft understood this by giving the whole Windows 7 desktop enviroment under Windows 8. Apple is just pushing everything out the door; Classic Apps, DVD (Which will STILL be around for a while longer), A conventional mouse, but they're doing it too fast, and most Apple fans go along with it because, they're Apple fanboys. They'll say anything Apple does is God-like. They're just dumbing down basically every product now. If Apple forces the iPad experience on their computers then I just won't buy Apple anymore.

 

[Calidude]

This is a difference I see everyday at work. The vast majority of my colleagues (normal, everyday people who probably know the average amount about technology) will open a Word file by first opening Word, and then going to file, open. They don't browse through my computer for the files they want. This is exactly the approach Apple are going for. Basically Apple are saying that there is no need for the user to micro manage files and folders because every file that you need access to can be accessed from the program that file is associated with, regardless of where on the device the file is actually stored. This is also the way OSX is going. Files, folders and file systems are legacy systems. Apple are trying to move away from that concept. I think if you don't like the idea of these legacy concepts being phased out, you're very much on the wrong platform since Apple are renowned for sweeping away old tech quite quickly and brutally.

So basically you're saying since the average user does this, it should be applied to everybody else?

This is plain and simple dumbing down of technology. Nothing else. Instead of of empowering people who have the ability to do advanced tasks, Apple is taking advanced tasks out of the equation entirely, disarming people who could do more if they had to the tools to do so.

I'd really hate to see a generation that was taught computing the iOS way. IQ's will drop sharply.

 

[mrochester]

So basically you're saying since the average user does this, it should be applied to everybody else?

This is plain and simple dumbing down of technology. Nothing else. Instead of of empowering people who have the ability to do advanced tasks, Apple is taking advanced tasks out of the equation entirely, disarming people who could do more if they had to the tools to do so.

I'd really hate to see a generation that was taught computing the iOS way. IQ's will drop sharply.

Mass market products should focus first and foremost on the 'average user'. And yes, that means 'everybody else' is going to have to put up with that, that's just progress for you.

I'm afraid I don't see the problem in 'dumbing down' or simplifying technology. There's absolutely no reason why technology should be complicated or inaccessible to the average user; and I strongly disagree with the idea that making something complicated empowers the user; I'd say it was quite the opposite and that Apple's approach is the one that empowers the user. Not everyone in the world wants or cares to know how their electronic items work, so they shouldn't have to.

Technology in general is no longer a niche market and it is only going to get simpler and simpler in time. The geeks and nerds among us need to find a new niche they can feel knowledgeable and superior about because they are quickly loosing their grip on technology. The sooner people realise we aren't going back to the days of command lines, file systems and other legacy systems, the better.