Yes, I was about to say the same thing. Earlier you had mentioned that it was just a firmware update. But Dell was forced to come out with an updated motherboard for their T3500 workstation if you want to order it with the new CPUs. So perhaps Apple is delaying because it needed to also do that.
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Mac Pro 2010 speculations
- Thread starter peejack
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Yes, I was about to say the same thing. Earlier you had mentioned that it was just a firmware update. But Dell was forced to come out with an updated motherboard for their T3500 workstation if you want to order it with the new CPUs. So perhaps Apple is delaying because it needed to also do that.
It's quite possible they had to send existing daughterboards (stock in hand before the engineering samples shipped) for rework to change the resistor/s values to get the correct value to allow the new parts to function (while still retaining function of the existing Nehalem parts, particularly on the SP versions).
The DP versions are only going to run 56xx parts, so there's no need to retain backwards compatibility with the 55xx parts' VID, though there's a good chance it would.
Ultimately, the differences between boards that do and don't need this, is a result of the parts & values selected during the Nehalem validation phase. Commercially available parts are fixed values, and getting the perfect value usually isn't possible without the use of either a potentiometer (adds labor to adjust it), or having custom values made (no labor, but more expensive for the parts).
If you're interested, poke around digikey.com for resistors, and see the different values available. They're all fixed, and are common values (quite useful, but do have limitations depending on the specific requirements). Most of the time, you get close enough with available parts and everything will work (it gets into the specifics, but there's a financial impact for every decision made, and in the end, finances tends to be a dictator in the form of an accountant
). Mac Pro 2010 speculations (anxiously awaiting - USB 3?)
As many people in this list, I'm anxiously awaiting for the new line of MPs to be available. I've been a PC user all my life but after playing around with my daughter's iMac (which I purchased "for her" ), I've decided that the replacement for my 4 year old PC will be a Mac. Now that virtualization technology has come a long way and that running linux and Windows applications on a Mac can be done painlessly, there is no reason not to go for the computer with the best hardware and OS: the Mac. Why not have the best of all worlds if you can?
I need a powerful and expandable machine, so the MP is the obvious choice. I have a question, though. How expandable MPs really are? One of the things that are making me wait instead of acquiring one of the current MPs right away is USB 3. I need to use external hard disks to store lots of data and I need fast data transfer speed. Even if USB 3 is not implemented in the new line of MPs (whenever that comes out), would it be possible to add it later on via a 3rd party PCI card?
The second question I have is: how well do third party peripherals work with Macs. I'm saying this because probably even the lowest range Mac Pro is going to be expensive (I know, I know, when you consider everything that is included, perhaps it is not so expensive, but still) so I'm probably not going to be able to afford a 27" Mac monitor. So, how well would a third party LCD monitor work with a Mac? Would I have problems with drivers or native resolutions? How about mice and keyboards? I'm sorry but even though I fell in love with my daughter's iMac and I'm tempted to take it away from her, I cannot really get used to the mice and keyboard. They look cool, but in terms of ergonomics and usability, they cannot compete with other products in the market (I hope I don't get flamed for this). I've made a considerable investment on and ergonomic keyboard and mouse for my PC and I'm very happy with them, so I'd like to keep them.
OK, that's it for now. I hope somebody can enlighten me.
JMF
As many people in this list, I'm anxiously awaiting for the new line of MPs to be available. I've been a PC user all my life but after playing around with my daughter's iMac (which I purchased "for her"
), I've decided that the replacement for my 4 year old PC will be a Mac. Now that virtualization technology has come a long way and that running linux and Windows applications on a Mac can be done painlessly, there is no reason not to go for the computer with the best hardware and OS: the Mac. Why not have the best of all worlds if you can?I need a powerful and expandable machine, so the MP is the obvious choice. I have a question, though. How expandable MPs really are? One of the things that are making me wait instead of acquiring one of the current MPs right away is USB 3. I need to use external hard disks to store lots of data and I need fast data transfer speed. Even if USB 3 is not implemented in the new line of MPs (whenever that comes out), would it be possible to add it later on via a 3rd party PCI card?
The second question I have is: how well do third party peripherals work with Macs. I'm saying this because probably even the lowest range Mac Pro is going to be expensive (I know, I know, when you consider everything that is included, perhaps it is not so expensive, but still) so I'm probably not going to be able to afford a 27" Mac monitor. So, how well would a third party LCD monitor work with a Mac? Would I have problems with drivers or native resolutions? How about mice and keyboards? I'm sorry but even though I fell in love with my daughter's iMac and I'm tempted to take it away from her, I cannot really get used to the mice and keyboard. They look cool, but in terms of ergonomics and usability, they cannot compete with other products in the market (I hope I don't get flamed for this). I've made a considerable investment on and ergonomic keyboard and mouse for my PC and I'm very happy with them, so I'd like to keep them.
OK, that's it for now. I hope somebody can enlighten me.
JMF
You shouldn't have trouble with most peripherals, certainly not stuff like mice, keyboards and displays.
I use the cheapest generic 22" display I could find with my Mac Pro, because I use my machine exclusively for music, so as long as I can see what I'm doing it doesn't matter. Actually, the display looks great to me, but I'm no graphics pro!
There are no drivers for my display, so any USB control functions don't work, but I just adjust the brightness and so on manually with the controls on the display itself. This doesn't bother me at all, but if it bothers you, you would have to look for a display with Mac drivers I guess.
I use a Logitech mouse, because I don't like the Mighty Mouse that came with the Mac Pro. The Magic Mouse was released a few months after I bought my Mac, I might have gone for that if it had been available to order with my machine, but my Logitech one is fine.
Personally, I love the wired keyboard that comes with the Mac Pro as the default option, but if your preferred one is wired, it will work fine (not sure about bluetooth ones, do they need a driver?). The only thing is that a lot of the keys on the Mac keyboard are labelled specifically for OS X functions. I think using a Windows style keyboard with the Mac would annoy me, but I know some people do.
The mouse should be fine as well, but if it has lots of buttons and you use them all, you might need to see if there's a driver. I think up to four buttons probably wouldn't need a driver (as long as it's wired), as that is what the Mighty Mouse has, but my Logitech one for example has a fifth button, and OS X didn't respond to that, until I installed the driver.
You will be able to add a USB 3 card to a Mac Pro, no worries. That's one of the benefits of choosing a Mac Pro over an iMac. They're not as expandable as a PC tower, because Apple still controls a lot of things, but it does mean you can add cards to keep up with the latest interface technology without having to buy a new computer for quite a while. The reason I chose a Mac Pro is because I wanted the internal drive bays.
Macs have become much more standardised over the last decade in terms of peripherals and architecture, so you shouldn't have too many problems.
It's not quite the same story when you start looking at things like Graphics cards, but the bread and butter stuff is pretty straightforward, I think.
I'm not sure about bluetooth mice and keyboards though, not sure if they need drivers or just work.
I use the cheapest generic 22" display I could find with my Mac Pro, because I use my machine exclusively for music, so as long as I can see what I'm doing it doesn't matter. Actually, the display looks great to me, but I'm no graphics pro!
There are no drivers for my display, so any USB control functions don't work, but I just adjust the brightness and so on manually with the controls on the display itself. This doesn't bother me at all, but if it bothers you, you would have to look for a display with Mac drivers I guess.
I use a Logitech mouse, because I don't like the Mighty Mouse that came with the Mac Pro. The Magic Mouse was released a few months after I bought my Mac, I might have gone for that if it had been available to order with my machine, but my Logitech one is fine.
Personally, I love the wired keyboard that comes with the Mac Pro as the default option, but if your preferred one is wired, it will work fine (not sure about bluetooth ones, do they need a driver?). The only thing is that a lot of the keys on the Mac keyboard are labelled specifically for OS X functions. I think using a Windows style keyboard with the Mac would annoy me, but I know some people do.
The mouse should be fine as well, but if it has lots of buttons and you use them all, you might need to see if there's a driver. I think up to four buttons probably wouldn't need a driver (as long as it's wired), as that is what the Mighty Mouse has, but my Logitech one for example has a fifth button, and OS X didn't respond to that, until I installed the driver.
You will be able to add a USB 3 card to a Mac Pro, no worries. That's one of the benefits of choosing a Mac Pro over an iMac. They're not as expandable as a PC tower, because Apple still controls a lot of things, but it does mean you can add cards to keep up with the latest interface technology without having to buy a new computer for quite a while. The reason I chose a Mac Pro is because I wanted the internal drive bays.
Macs have become much more standardised over the last decade in terms of peripherals and architecture, so you shouldn't have too many problems.
It's not quite the same story when you start looking at things like Graphics cards, but the bread and butter stuff is pretty straightforward, I think.
I'm not sure about bluetooth mice and keyboards though, not sure if they need drivers or just work.
Re: Mac Pro 2010 speculations (anxiously awaiting - USB 3?)
Thanks a lot dryjoy. What you say alleviates my worries. I'm very attached to my Logitech Wave keyboard (I really recommend it to anybody who experiences any problems with their wrists, it is really a comfortable keyboard).
I'm not so worried about having to figure out what keys correspond to the different OSX functions. I just learned, for instance, that the 'cmd' key for the Mac corresponds to the 'windows' key on a PC keyboard. I think I'll be so enthralled with my Mac that I won't mind having to learn new habits or tricks (keyboard shortcuts, etc.) Now if they would just announced the availability of the new Mac Pros ...
JMF
Thanks a lot dryjoy. What you say alleviates my worries. I'm very attached to my Logitech Wave keyboard (I really recommend it to anybody who experiences any problems with their wrists, it is really a comfortable keyboard).
I'm not so worried about having to figure out what keys correspond to the different OSX functions. I just learned, for instance, that the 'cmd' key for the Mac corresponds to the 'windows' key on a PC keyboard. I think I'll be so enthralled with my Mac that I won't mind having to learn new habits or tricks (keyboard shortcuts, etc.) Now if they would just announced the availability of the new Mac Pros ...
JMF
USB 3.0 is available in PCIe cards, but so far, I've not seen one with drivers for OS X (hopefully just a matter of time). But there's a performance issue with them as well. 1x PCIe lane, so no matter what's connected, PCIe 1.x spec will only be able to achieve 250MB/s, and a PCIe 2.0 spec slot 500MB/s. (USB 3.0 has ~3.2Gb/s = 400MB/s real world throughput from available information so far, and that's not taking the slot issues into consideration, which will be slower in the event of an older system). As it's USB, it won't run at it's theoretical max.
What you can do, is get an eSATA card, and run them that way. There's both 3.0 and 6.0Gb/s currently available for Macs (real world max throughput is ~270MB/s for 3.0Gb/s and 540MB/s for 6.0Gb/s).
Thanks nanofrog. I understand that what you are saying would apply to the current MPs but are you sure this will also be the case with the new line of MPs (if there is any, I'm starting to wonder)?
Thanks for the suggestion about the eSata card. I had not thought about this. The only problem is the price of the external drives that go with these cards. A brief search in Google yielded some very highly priced hard disks. I would imagine (and hope) that if USB 3 really catches on, prices for USB 3 external drives would be much cheaper.
JM
Thanks for the suggestion about the eSata card. I had not thought about this. The only problem is the price of the external drives that go with these cards. A brief search in Google yielded some very highly priced hard disks. I would imagine (and hope) that if USB 3 really catches on, prices for USB 3 external drives would be much cheaper.
JM
If USB 3.0 is a necessary slot, I would wait for Intel to support it; I'm sure that there will be a PCIe USB 3.0 card for the MacPro eventually, but my understanding is that so far some of the released controllers have been flakey... this may not be the case now but that's always the impression I got.
I'd use eSATA as a solution for your disc woes; you have to pay extra for an enclosure, but you get a far more solid throughput IMO then USB.
As for displays, that's a similar story... bottom line is that a display's a display, but do your research and you might pay slightly more for a drastic improvement in quality (TN to eIPS, for example).
I'd use eSATA as a solution for your disc woes; you have to pay extra for an enclosure, but you get a far more solid throughput IMO then USB.
As for displays, that's a similar story... bottom line is that a display's a display, but do your research and you might pay slightly more for a drastic improvement in quality (TN to eIPS, for example).
Haha, what a bunch of nonsense.
Hey, I work in a pro environment day after grueling day, spitting out HD shows for broadcasters around the world and we do all on Mac Pro's. We've got about 10 of them now and keep buying more. And we're small potatoes in the broadcast world.
Do you actually know one single person that makes an actual living in the real world? I'm guessing your wisdom comes from forums, because you seem way out of touch.
Yeah, we're going to master our million dollar shows on a Hackintosh.
And try to get a show to HDCAM via an iMac. Buying a Mac Pro has a whole lot more to do with expansion than processor power. Processor prowess is for kids.I apologize if you're actually being sarcastic.
Who's waiting? If a pro needs gear, it gets purchased as soon as possible. If it's your living, for real, you're not going to sit around waiting for the next best thing, especially when there isn't going to be any significant improvement. Most times new hardware just causes problems. This 'must-wait' mindset is created by marketing. Cameras with megapixel wars, computers with processor speed wars, etc, etc. It's a consumer mindset to wait. The working pro just gets to work.
It entirely depends on your current set up and or what you have access too. While most computer revisions tend not to offer massive performance a lot wait to get that "better value for money" from their purchase. Plenty of professionals who use their systems to make their living post on these forums about waiting. Also just because someone is best served by hardware like the Mac Pro it doesn't mean they have the best knowledge or thought process when it comes to purchasing it
.You'd think so and normally i'd agree with you, the cost of even an uber high spec MacPro isn't a lot compared with the annual cost of employing someone, I think the office rent per employee at my place is about £18,000 a year so 6grand for a MP isn't a lot. however many of us have to justify purchases to beancounters who at the best of times act like mini hitlers. Under current conditions some people are even having to justify stationary.
To go out and spend a fair few thousand on a new MP and then be insulted as a new one is released less than two months (assuming June 2010) after the purchase and that it's a considerably better machine then there's a good chance that person could be finding themself on the 'your fired' list.
The more I read about Intel's push for Light Peak the more I think that new Mac Pros, even if they wait until June, will not have USB 3.0. I can see the next generation of Mac Pros in 2011 having Light Peak with Apple skipping USB 3.0 altogether.
What would be Apple's reason not to include USB 3.0 in the next Mac Pro line-up?
Isn't it supported enough? With so many Mac Pro users working with huge file sizes (especially those who word with HD video), USB 3.0 looks like a good thing to have.
Isn't it supported enough? With so many Mac Pro users working with huge file sizes (especially those who word with HD video), USB 3.0 looks like a good thing to have.
Yes.
Get your own enclosures (no disks), and chose the drives of your choice. This works with single drive enclosures or those that have Port Multiplier chips in them (up to 5x SATA disks on a single eSATA port). Do your research carefully, and you'll end up with a reliable storage system.
But make sure the eSATA card supports Port Multiplier enclosures before you buy, as not all of them do. Oddly enough, the cheapest ones are typically based on the SIL3132 chip, and they do (Silicon Image provides OS X drivers). Others such as the newertech card do NOT (no drivers needed though, and has 6.0Gb/s capability).
It will be sorted at some point. The chips aren't ideal (throughput limiations as a result of the PCIe lane count = 1x, as the PCIe bridge is in the NEC chip).
eSATA would be a better solution, and cheap too.
The "need now, buy now" comments are presumptive of the lack of an existing system (or one that is capable of running the tasks, even slowly).Plenty of professionals who use their systems to make their living post on these forums about waiting. Also just because someone is best served by hardware like the Mac Pro it doesn't mean they have the best knowledge or thought process when it comes to purchasing it
But those that at least have something that's sufficient, even if slow, have a little more freedom to wait for the newer systems to chase that never ending goal of a better value for their money.
I guess some members may interpret such initial posts a little differently as to the current system situation. I know I've interpreted some as having nothing sufficient on hand for the needed usage on multiple occasions.
I don't expect to see many changes based on what apple has done for the recent update of MBP line. They will increase the power of CPU & GPU power for sure and they may make Mac Pro has 1TB storage drive as basic and have option of 500 GB SSD.
What I really hope to see is ATI 5870 or ATI 5870 for mac pro 2008 & 2009 models.
What I really hope to see is ATI 5870 or ATI 5870 for mac pro 2008 & 2009 models.
Re: Mac Pro 2010 speculations (pricing)
Thanks to everybody that responded. Yes, the option of getting an enclosure for eSata and buying your own HD seems like a good option.
As for the comment from the other poster concerning the wait for the new models, for me pricing is a big consideration. Lately Apple has had the good sense of becoming more and more competitive in pricing. You can say that Mac Book Pros are a bit expensive but they certainly have become comparable in price with similar laptops in the PC world. Or, look at the pricing for the iPads. Who is going to buy a Joojoo (or an HP tablet, for that matter) when you can get an iPad for that price? I for one am expecting that the next line of Mac Pros will have at least some of the models at a reasonable price. That would be the smart thing for Apple to do. If they turn out to be very expensive, I can always try to get a refurbished last year model or a bargain for a second hand MP from someone who is willing to pay the price for a new one. If worse come to worse, I'll buy a core i7 from Dell or HP and do the Hackintosh thing. I would prefer not to, though.
JM
Thanks to everybody that responded. Yes, the option of getting an enclosure for eSata and buying your own HD seems like a good option.
As for the comment from the other poster concerning the wait for the new models, for me pricing is a big consideration. Lately Apple has had the good sense of becoming more and more competitive in pricing. You can say that Mac Book Pros are a bit expensive but they certainly have become comparable in price with similar laptops in the PC world. Or, look at the pricing for the iPads. Who is going to buy a Joojoo (or an HP tablet, for that matter) when you can get an iPad for that price? I for one am expecting that the next line of Mac Pros will have at least some of the models at a reasonable price. That would be the smart thing for Apple to do. If they turn out to be very expensive, I can always try to get a refurbished last year model or a bargain for a second hand MP from someone who is willing to pay the price for a new one. If worse come to worse, I'll buy a core i7 from Dell or HP and do the Hackintosh thing. I would prefer not to, though.
JM
I think this mostly depends on what is in Intel's support chipset. I.e. Apple currently uses Intel's X58 chipset. But Apple probably doesn't want to do a large scale re-design for the next gen Mac Pro (because the new Intel CPUs are pin compatible and only require some slight power tweaks).
So if Intel has a replacement for the X58 that is a more-or-less "drop in" replacement with USB 3.0, then Apple might use that. But if Intel doesn't have that chipset, then Apple will continue using the X58.
To Apple there probably isn't yet a "strategic" reason to add USB 3.0 capability to any of their products. If it's more-or-less "free" to do it they might, but not if they have to go out of their way to do so.
That's different than FireWire. Apple has that in most of their PCs. It's "strategic" to them, so even if Intel doesn't support it directly, Apple will add extra chips to "make it so".
Apple are going to have To get real.
The Price of a Mac Pro baseline is a joke, and more and more people who need desktop power are building hackintoshes.
If you dont reduce baseline prices put some serious stuff in the Pro, that makes it lustful
The Price of a Mac Pro baseline is a joke, and more and more people who need desktop power are building hackintoshes.
If you dont reduce baseline prices put some serious stuff in the Pro, that makes it lustful
I totally agree. I could care less about Light Peak and USB 3.0, mostly because I'm almost positive we aren't going to see it on the 2010 update.
Honestly, regardless of if the update is minor, I will be happy just to see it flat out happen before May or June.
Seconded.
Just don't want to splash out on a current one to be superseeded by even only a slightly better version very soon after.
I agree too. I don't think Light Peak will be ready until 2011 at the earliest anyway. If Apple are going to use Light Peak I can't see them putting USB 3.0 in one revision of the Mac Pro just to remove it in place of Light Peak in the next.
I think that unfortunately we may be waiting until June simply because of Intel's supply issues. That meeting with AMD is probably to light a fire under Intel. Apple must be a big feather in Intel's cap even if they garner most of their sales from Windows boxes. They are not going to want to lose exclusivity with Apple.
I glanced quickly at a design mag while shopping at the weekend - article about workstations. Current MacPros listed as only just qualifying!! and the bottom of the range being the only one that's justifiable cost/performance against competition.
So its looks like Apple need to step up to the mark - or admit defeat for the pro performance end of the market. Maybe it'll be re named, the AppleBigMac (fills a space and the promo photos always look tempting) as MacPro no longer seems to be a title that is currently justifiable for anything else but the price bracket.
Much as I prefer using a Mac - I'm still convinced I'm not going to see anything worth the investment and I'm certainly going to start looking at the Hackintosh options very soon.
So its looks like Apple need to step up to the mark - or admit defeat for the pro performance end of the market. Maybe it'll be re named, the AppleBigMac (fills a space and the promo photos always look tempting) as MacPro no longer seems to be a title that is currently justifiable for anything else but the price bracket.
Much as I prefer using a Mac - I'm still convinced I'm not going to see anything worth the investment and I'm certainly going to start looking at the Hackintosh options very soon.